Strange lumps

[clipclop]

One day last summer my horse came in from thr=e field with several fly bites on her which included a couple on her back. After several days they all dissapeared apart from 2 or three on her back. These small lumps took several months to go, they never bothered her however at all, never became sore or caused any other problems. Over the winter they completely dissapeared. This summer the first day I took her coat off and turned her out the lumps started to reappear and even a few more appeared on the other side of her back. Again the skin is not broken there is no soreness and they causes her no problem.

What on earth could thes lumps be. I did wonder if they were warble flies but shouldn't htey have a small hole in the top of them. There is no hole etc.

I read in a horse magazine a while ago a simalar story to mine and the advice was if they don't bother her to leave them alone but I would like to know what they are.

[Kerry's Partner!!]

Are they small or big lumps, and did you search for any more?

Over the last week I have been introduced to very small lumps on either side of my horse's spine which I had not detected at all. The only ones I had noticed were three on my horse's neck. AND I had previously believed I knew every bit of her!! Apparently in our case the lumps are suggested to be related to the worming programme - so best not to interrupt it - it's just a fairly innocent side effect.

[clipclop]

They are about the size of a pea and visible, you don't have to feel for them you can actually see them. They are in the area that the saddle lies too, but saddle has been checked etc and all is fine.

She hasn't got any more lumps any where else unless she gets a fly bite and they usually dissapear within a week. THey actually look like fly bites but without any hole at the top.etc.

[Kerry's Partner!!]

Clipclop they're the same size as Kerry's. As I say three were visible and I didn't know she had any more until the saddler got me to feel for them.

[ros]

There's an article in this month's Your Horse about summer lumps and bumps. One thing that might fit the description is collagen necrosis:

"...small inert lumps found in the saddle area, which usually measure about 1" in diameter. These lumps arrive without apparent reason..."

[possibly triggered by some allergic reaction to friction, pressure or dirt]

"They are not painful, they do not burst or weep and they are not red or inflamed. In fact, they seem to just sit there for ages doing nothing very much."

The article goes on to say that the nodules do resolve themselves spontaneously, but can be dispersed more quickly if necessary by a small injection at their base.

The above may not necessarily explain all the lumps, but I hadn't heard of this before and thought it was quite interesting.

[Kerry's Partner!!]

Thank you - that is really interesting. Our lumps are much smaller - probably only just about a quarter of an inch in diameter - real pea size.

[Piaffe]

My horse used to get these from time to time - usually in the summer - so I put them down to the heat/and/or insect bites etc. He's not had them for a while now, since I bought a polypad actually!! Maybe just coincidence!

[Maci]

In June's Equus, someone wrote in with the exact same things you are describing, and the magazine vet said it might be "collagen granuloma". I'm not sure if this is the exact same disease ros described, or if this is a different form but I will highlight what he says:

-skin disease
-caused by insect bites
"in some horses, the immune system's reaction to the siliva of particular insects (mosquitoes are most often the culprits) causes a small number of collagen-producing cell to die."

-saddles/blankets make it worse ("...pressure provoke a a slow, sterile inflammatory reaction that generates small nodules of "granulation." hence the term...")

-painless, harmless, but annoying to horse owners
-rarely go away on thier own
-size of pea, with hair still covering bump
-sometimes enlarge and multiply until hairloss and tenderness result
-injections of tiny doses of steroids helps reduce inflammation

-to get rid of the bumps, "...the nodules under local anesthesia. This is essentially the excision of the top of the bump to allow the body to reject the tiny nidus of dead collagen. The scab that forms over the area incorporates the offending particle and lifts it out as the skin heals." (June 2002, Equus)

Maci :)

[Kerry's Partner!!]

The size is the clue in Kerry's case I think. Thank you very much for your summary of the article. I've printed it out. Yes the tiny lumps are covered with hair. I wonder now whether this is the problem in our situation or the wormer so I'm going to investigate.

Sandra

[Kerry's Partner!!]

Another thought. These lumps are really symmetrical - that is they are in almost a straight line about half an inch from her spine. This is the only thing I find strange if they are either due to allergy or bites.

[clipclop]

Does your horses lumps dissapear in the winter?

My horse had about 4 of these lumps last summer and very gradually dissapeared in the winter, only to reappear last month but this time about 6 of them on her left side of her spine and about 5 on the right in a group.

Please keep this topic active as it would be very interesting to know the outcome.

[Bel]

At my old stud we had the same thing with our colts, the little lumps appering on the back etc. We put it dont to small mites that where in the sawdust/ shavings we used for bedding. they went away after a few weeks.

[Kerry's Partner!!]

I don't think I was observant enough last year. I do think I can remember the three on her neck but hadn't been allerted to the ones on either side of her spine (if they existed last year). Kay Humphries showed them to me just a couple of weeks ago.

I agree that we need to keep this thread active to share what happens etc.

[Maci]

Originally posted by Kerry's Partner!!
These lumps are really symmetrical - that is they are in almost a straight line about half an inch from her spine. This is the only thing I find strange if they are either due to allergy or bites.

Actually, now that I think about it, it is kind of odd! Anyways, I'm glad I helped! :) Good luck with your search and I hope its nothing bad!

Maci :)

[Alison+Rio]

It sounds as if you horse suffers from Uticaria (sp?). Its an allergic reaction to the flies but they dont have to bite them to be affected! my horse suffers from this. Its just fluid filled and should go down with no side effects. If howvere the lumps become painful and get bigger then the horse may need an injection from the vet. My horse has only need this once as careful managment and use of a flysheet seem to do the trick.

[Kerry's Partner!!]

Thank you for the info. I'm still puzzled 'though. Urticaria in the human world is definitely not symmetrical. Kerry's not bothered at all by her little lumps, thank goodness and she seems (all other things considered at the moment) not to be bothered by them at all. In fact the ones on her neck have disappeared again.

[Alison+Rio]

Rio sometimes gets the lumps for a few days then they just disappear! sometimes they are symmetrical othertimes they arent! there was a good article about it in one of the magazines that i just bought! i will write back with the name as i cant remember it off hand. most of the time Rio isnt bothered by the lumps but just now they seem to be causing him some discomfort so its probably going to be the vet time again! i should just have the vet live there! it would be cheaper! i hope your horse gets better and the lumps do go down quickly! if you are in any doubt as to what its though it may be best that you phone the vet. even if he doesnt come out if you explain to him what the problem is he may know from the description!

[Kerry's Partner!!]

Haven't seen her for at least a week (she's cared for well whilst I'm not there). I'll check her over tomorrow re the tiny lumps - and of course everything and everywhere else!!

Hope you had good news if you did have to call the vet out.

Sandra

[Alison+Rio]

Rio's fine. I brought him in for a few days! He loves me lots for that! lol. I just bought him a fly sheet so hopefully that should help!

I hope the lumps are gone on your horse! I hate this time of year.

[Kerry's Partner!!]

Thanks for the good wishes. I'll let you know tomorrow.

I've just realised it probably isn't anything to do with breed. I'm assuming your loved one is a warmblood whilst I know mine is a Welsh Cob.

Sandra

[Alison+Rio]

Your right Rio is a warmblood. I had a welsh mare on loan who seemingly had sweet itch (it never appeared when i had her) but she never got any lumps. I wouldn't think it has anything to do with breeds. If the lumps aren't causing any problems then its best to leave them. If there still there the next time the vet comes out you could always ask him to have a look for you.

[clipclop]

Since strarting this thread I have been trying to do a little research etc.
I would like to know if anybody has had any reaction that they can remember from using citronella based fly repellents. Or homemade citronella solutions etc.

The only different thing that I have used on my mare since last summer is a citronella based solution as a fly reppellent and was wondering if she has been just slightly sensitive to this and with the combination of firstly being ridden in the mornings then been sprayed with this and then turned out in the sunshine could have maybe been enough to set off a reaction. It's just a thought but the lumps only appeared after using the citronella. After all it is an oil that can cause burning and with her also just been ridden then exposed to the sun as well I was wondering if this could be the cause.

[tasha]

I've used citronella products on both sweet itch and non-sweet itch ponies without any reactions.

The TB at our yard has those lumps on her back. Her owner uses an antiseptic wash that has to be diluted and only used 1x week as it is very strong which is getting rid of them quite well.

[Kerry's Partner!!]

I'll check Kerry's mane and tail conditioner re presence of Citronella. BUT I think we also all need to confirm what the last wormer was before the appearance or reappearance of the tiny lumps in each of our horses. Just a reminder that in our case it was suggested that this was a common side effect of ONE of the wormers we are likely to use in our regime - albeit an apparently innocent, harmless, side effect.

Sandra

[tasha]

Equest and double dose Strongid P-that's what all the horses at our yard get. I wonder if there is a link, and is it worth changing wormers over? After all the lumps dont seem to hurt, they just look unsightly.

[Kerry's Partner!!]

It would probably be a good idea to gather a bit more evidence before changing anything - I think we need more replies after observing the relationships in a time-related way to anything we've given/sprayed etc.

In any event I think that the protection provided by the wormers (from ultimate death due to the damage the various worms do) is essential if the side effects (our little lumps) are harmless.

[tasha]

Yeah thats what I thought..was just pondering aloud. Would be interesting if there was a link though....

[Kerry's Partner!!]

Kerry's have almost disappeared now. Her worming programme shows that she was wormed last month again and obviously with a different wormer (i.e. on her programme and after these lumps appeared and whilst they are in progress of disappearing). Our yard keeps a record (and so do I) re what is given when so it will be interesting to see what happens in a few month's time.

[Kerry's Partner!!]

Kerry's lumps are not symmetrical any longer and bit by bit they are disappearing. The only association I can make is with regard to saddles. As we've introduced saddles (which albeit not a perfect fit do fit her much better), not only have the lumps subsided but Kerry's character seems to have changed too. I may well be putting two and two together to make five - who knows!!!!!! I'm just sharing what has actually happened in our particular case.

[clipclop]

Well my horses lumps have gone now and I have also been using citronella based fly repellents, so the lumps can't have been caused by that. I will keep you posted to see if the lumps reapear as she has just been wormed today with Furexel.

Clipclop

[Kerry's Partner!!]

Hi,

Has anything happened yet?

Sandra

[clipclop]

No. My mares lumps haven't reapeared yet and she was wormed on Friday evening.