Good trail riding in USA (our holiday 3)

[Skib]

There have been posts recently about the dangers of Trail Riding, especially in France. Once again, in the USA, we've been in tourist trail riding heaven. So I will start with the joy of it. A photo in the Grand Teton NP - taken by a kind rider who had his camera with him.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a303/Skib39/USA%2007/trail1.jpg

and one of the best trail ride centers ever, in Glacier NP
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a303/Skib39/USA%2007/trail2.jpg

Now for my thoughts on trail riding and safety issues.
We are oaps and I need to take care, so I do. You can see we wear our hats and bps every time. And boots with heels.
I am more fussy than many on NR about choosing the places we ride.
It goes without saying that I expect the horses to be well cared for and to look healthy and tack in good nick.
I expect consideration to be given to riders too: a loo and water if it is hot; permission to take passports and keys in a purse belt, or alternatively a saddle bag provided or safe keeping in an office.
I can mount from the ground if I fall off hacking here, but I don't expect to be obliged to do it at the start of a normal ride. Mature riders on NR take note, the guy in Yellowstone refused to let me ride on safety grounds because I asked to mount from the rail or a rock instead. But he didn't hesitate to take the other family (and kids) who spoke little English none of whom had ever ever been on a horse before.
I expect the disclaimer of liability to be drafted in accordance with the State law but not to be otherwise oppressive. In our opinion his contract would itself have been illegal in England so when he refused to take us out we walked away and went on a day hike instead. Just because an outfitter has the contract to provide tourist rides in a National Park, that doesn't mean it's a good place to ride.

All our trail rides over the last three years have been taken as non-residents, either at drop in corrals, or at guest ranches which accept outside bookings. I don't think the drop in places have lower safety standards, as was suggested on another thread.
I do think that highly successful tourist trail ride places with a massive throughput of riders tend to be worse. They have a steady stream of customers, so it doesn't affect their trade if one or two clients like ourselves decide not to ride.

Trail ride centers in the States offer walk only rides and cater for total beginners. Yet you are taught to slow your horse and stop (reins) and make it go forward (kick) and asked to maintain a fixed distance between you and the horse in front.
This may be easier said than done especially for beginners whose horse may stop and eat. If a gap opens up a pony may trot or even canter to fill the gap. If the horse in front accelerates any following horse will want to accelerate too and refuse restraint - which seems to have contributed to the accident in France.

I 'd already hacked in the UK when I went on my first USA trail rides. OH was prepared this year by taking riding lessons and going on one trail ride in the UK too. Even so, you can only learn to ride by taking charge of your own horse. And you only recognise risks from experience. Like the day I noticed a pink push chair by the river to our right and warned him to take hold of the horn. The three horses did spook slightly as I predicted - but OH told me he had no idea that a horse might be stupid enough to be scared of a push chair!

Yes, that is right, three horses, just us and a Wrangler. That's not unknown when you book a trail ride. If no one else wants to go at that same time or route, you get to go on your own.

I have only once been given a horse that needed riding skill, and that was this summer when I was offered (and accepted) a horse new to the yard, as that was the only way they could fit us in.

Yes, accidents could have happened.
On our first ride (no photos) we were at the end of the string with OH behind me where I couldn't see him, riding beside and frequently crossing a minor road. He did find it hard to keep his mare moving and I hung back then, afraid he might get left behind on the wrong side of the road.
We were staggered to see a young mother in a strappy top riding with her baby (under a year?) propped on the saddle in front of her and neither with any protective clothing at all.
So sure, that was a place with few restrictions - but nothing happened to anyone and it was OK. I'd ride there again if they offered me another route.

Whereas we wouldnt choose to ride at two very popular and far more highly regulated yards. It is a very personal thing, whether you feel happy with the guys in charge, and comfortable to go out on the horse they allocate. Don't be afraid to walk away and say No, even if everyone else says the place is fine.

With that proviso, I'd recommend trail riding to anyone who loves the landscape and American riding. I have done it for the last three years. OH knew how happy it made me and that was why he decided to try it too. I watched him become more competent and capable with every ride. And he's still taking riding lessons now we are back home.

[LindaAd]

Thanks for posting these, Skib.

You certainly look very happy, especially in the last one.

I wonder how this sort of trail-riding compares with pony-trekking over here?
(I've never done either).

I was interested in the horses' nose-nets in the second pic. Is that to stop them eating, or because of allergies?

We worry so much about leg position, and outline, correct circles and whether or not we 'can ride" - it's worth stopping from time to time to remember that just being out on a horse in the countryside is one of the best things in the world.

[coverblown]

Again, gorgeous pctures Skib, it looks like a fantastic holiday. Love those nosebags.... And wonderful scenery - how far up into those mountains did you get?

I have posted recently about an accident in France, and had a few responses on that thread detailing similar incidents, maybe thats the one you are recalling...




...I don't think the drop in places have lower safety standards, as was suggested on another thread.
I do think that highly successful tourist trail ride places with a massive throughput of riders tend to be worse. They have a steady stream of customers, so it doesn't affect their trade if one or two clients like ourselves decide not to ride.......

I think you have made a useful distinction here Skib; it is important to be comfortable with the outfit rather than rigorously checking their credentials. (But I would be quite reluctant to use a non BHS or ABRS approved establishment in the UK).

I have not been put off riding on holiday - although have been solicited that way by many - and the sort of accident that happened to us in France is rare in our experience, thank goodness.

[eml]

Looks lovely Skib and good to see husband riding too...I assume he loves it too?

Pepsimax I haven't posted on your thread but in continental Europe there is vast gulf between serious RS who are very serious :D and the holiday riding sector. We had a girl one year who had been a ride leader in a French centre, we never actually let her lead a leadrein child ..particularly after she tied her horse to the outdoor school rail by its reins :eek: She assured me this was her yard normal practice and then said 'and when are you going away I will look after the school' :rolleyes:

[Kittycat]

I've just read Pepsimaxrocks thread as well (ouch), it is scary how we are so keen to ride we will sometimes put ourselves in danger. I rode on a hack in Majorca years ago, myself and 2 friends, the'd never been on a horse before & I had hacked a few times. One of the horses bolted, mine followed, and I remembered we weren't wearing hats! :eek: When I started to slip and saw the ground going past very fast I thought 'b*gger this, I'm NOT coming off' and hung onto the saddle, mane and reins as tight as I could!!! (In hindsight they weren't going that fast but it felt like it!:o) Luckily they stopped when they reached a lake.

On another hack in Wales the lead girl (she was only young herself) rode off, without bothering to check how we were doing. One lad (first time ever on a horse) was holding his reins at the buckle and the horse decided to try and scale the hill instead of walking on the track. It was left to my friend and myself to help him!

On my last hack out I asked for a neck strap as my forward seat is unsteady, then I realised that the canter was so short I didn't have time to get out of the saddle anyway!

I love the photos Skib, the trail ride looks fun, and sensible you to wear your bps!

[coverblown]

Sorry if this hijacks, Skib, but isn't it always a dangerous sport. And, like you did, S, we take steps to minimise the dangers. Like checking out the ambience and the regard for safety of the trail riding centre. Or underplaying experience when booking a hack at a new or strange place or a riding holiday. Or posting on here for advice about a potential new place.

For that is what we non horse-owners do. And I think we should continue to do so.

I am not talking about being completely gung-ho such as - right I am on holiday, so I can forget my hat, gloves, boots, chaps, bp etc etc (incidentally we were wearing ALL of those when we had our little accident in France).

I am saying that Skib's wonderful experience is within the reach of all of us with a modicum of care. I believe that in France I exercised that care and my judgement was in this instance misplaced. Of the horses, and the school much more could be said of course........ . They are contracted to supply hacks to Center Parcs as we discovered.

I did underestimate the capability of the ride escort to consider what was happening behind her - and to give a damn about the accident on her watch. I also underestimated our ability to deal with the horses, which is depressing, as they were described as "gentil" and "doux" which is what we requested.
I have ridden in many many places on holiday - and have fallen off only twice (including this year's French experience).

I would LOVE to try out your trail riding experience Skib, those mountains and that sky are amazing in your pictures.

Very best wishes, Anne x.

[ShariN]

Having worked on a rent strings as a teen wayy back when.

Am not sure how it is over across the pond but over here..many of the rent strings have closed down for these reasons. And because of dealing for years...and years with people like this.
Many people say they can ride..and really can't. They might of sat on a horse when they were 5 years old. Very frustrating when people can't tell the truth and the scary part was..was 90% of them.
Then the biggest reason...many people in this country..same ones that don't tell the truth about their riding skills are the same ones that sue said riding stable for millions because they get hurt.
I know the kind of training I had to have and we did become pretty good at telling who could really ride and who could not.
Needless to say those kinds of folks have made the remaning rent strings gun shy.
Am sorry your vacation did not turn out better.

For the other issue...sadly it is an on going one that many here do not like but can do nothing about.

Best bet is get references from Vaction spots that rent out horses to see what others though of the place and the trail guides. Not every place is equal and sadly some are more super careful than others because of getting sue for no reason. Sad state of affairs.

[loopyh]

I've ridden overseas a couple of times - I did a days trek with a company on crete and was very impressed that they insisted on hats and gave a talk before we left on riding and safety etc. I ride a fair bit in Ghana where alot of people just don't bother with hats or come to think of it boots or suitable trousers etc. I've seen young girls riding around a school in shorts, flip flops, no hat and strappy t-shirt. I think some people are just convinced they can control the horse and don't need safety measurers. I'm always aware that its a dangerous sport and wouldn't dream of getting on a horse without my hat, boots, gloves etc.

[greymane]

Great Photos Skib :-)

I recognise those mountains from my recent trip. I wished we'd been able to see more of the Grand Teton region but we were a three hour car drive away!

Regarding the safety of trail riding at the place we rode. Before we went we had to fill in a detailed questionnaire about our riding ability. There were five levels of ability indicated and each gave a description of what you were expected to be able to do at that level.

On the first morning everyone was taken down to the sand school and assessed, which was a bit scary. To our delight we were moved up a group. The head Wrangler told us that they do the assesment because most people over estimate their ability - and the Brits usually underestimate - as we had.

Hard hats compulsory.

Wrangler at back of string as well as leader. All of the Wranglers were girls and most had beem going there for several seasons. All were excellent riders and had gone through a tough interview process (the owners are extraordinarily careful with their horses). Two of the wranglers were from the UK and doing their first season.

[wanabe]

Nice photos, skib! I'm glad to see that your OH is riding now. That must have been annoying (and bemusing) when you weren't allowed to ride but complete beginners were at Yellowstone.

That's an excellent point about horses stopping to eat and then trotting or cantering forward to catch up with the others. Maybe that's why some trail bosses insist that the horses not be allowed to eat.

I think all trailriding is a little bit dangerous, even a so-called walk only one. We took our grandsons (then 5, 8, and 12) for their annual ride at the place you went with me and Laura Jeanne, and a small tree in the trail went under the 5 YO's horse and then popped up and hit the horse, somehow, and it took off at full speed for about 40 feet. My grandson came out of the saddle but managed to hang onto the side of it, then dropped to the ground (a long way for him!). This could have ended with a more serious result than it did.

[Skib]

To answer the questions.

Linda I was interested in the horses' nose-nets in the second pic. Is that to stop them eating, or because of allergies?

To stop them eating. The wranglers' horses didn't have them, so when a wrangler dismounted to see to e.g. a rider's girth, their horse got to graze and the others all waited. OH thought that unfair.

I have posted recently about an accident in France, and had a few responses on that thread detailing similar incidents, maybe thats the one you are recalling...

Yes I read the thread. But didn't want to follow your accident with our account of having a wonderful time.

Greymane - we went on trail rides - no experience required. Though at most places they had a minimum age. This is very different riding from the equestrian center you went to. I am very glad you were promoted. But trail riding is egalitarian stuff. The ponies know their work. The ones we rode in the second pic up North where the summer season is short, work as pack horses for shooting parties in Wyoming in the winter, carrying dead elk back to base. The deer dangle down either side, so the horses are dead to the leg and respond to voice aids instead.
And it is Western riding. Far from being taught to rise in trot for the good of the horses, in both Montana and Texas I've had a lesson in how to ask for and get a slow Western jog from my horse and how to sit it well. Like the dressage back home.
And wonderful scenery - how far up into those mountains did you get?
It depends on the route and the position of the yard. In the Grand Teton we climbed higher on foot to a view point than we did when we rode. The mountains provided a back drop when we rode.
But in the Rocky Mountain NP and Glacier NP the horses have gone up a good height - and started quite high too.
As you know, if one climbs a mountain on foot there is often a long grind up through trees till you reach a view point and have a sudden view, or come out above the tree line in Scotland and ride across the tops where there is a vista. A horse does the slogging up between the trees for you and you get to a view point. A horse can go up beside a steeply falling stream and reach the hanging valley above, often with another lake. The wranglers prepare steps in the track to make it easier for the horses and to prevent erosion.
One great advantage in the mountains is that when you ride, you have a guide take you to places and views which you wouldnt have been able to find for yourself. And it is quicker than a person climbing up there on foot.
This is why my OH wanted to learn to ride.

yes, eml. He says I may tell you, he enjoys it. Not something he usually admits.
To his friends the other day he said, Being on a horse is something you get used to. Being on a horse does feel very peculiar at first. And then you get used to it and it doesn't.