Cold Back

[lizayr]

Can someone explain to me what a cold back is and the signs of it? I have recently purchased a mare who has been checked by vet had her teeth and saddle checked, but apprehensive when you tack her up not sure if shes trying me out just seen a mention bout it in another thread if someone could elaborate:)

[Harry Hobbes]

"Cold backed" is a colloquial phrase used to label a horse that is mentally sensitive or uncomfortable with something on its back; such as a saddle.

Because horses are individuals, some are more (physically, emotionally and) mentally sensitive or uncomfortable than others. Just like people.

By way of analogy, if someone were to walk up to you and slap you on the back (in a friendly sort of way, of course), and you consistently took exception to it and every re-occurrence, then you would be "cold backed."

Best regards,
Harry

[lizayr]

thnx harry that sounds alot like my mare are there ways to help her with this? will need to reed up i have a behaviourist coming to see her in a fortnight as from what i have told her she reckons alot is social dominance on the ground thanks agai n:)

[Harry Hobbes]

thnx harry that sounds alot like my mare are there ways to help her with this? It's all a matter of helping her accept what's on her back (and on her in general.)

My "...on the back" response was rather simplistic. The symptoms of "cold back" generally show up in relation to the horse's back; hence, the origin of the term. But if you consider that this is a mental issue, and specifically a mental issue with "acceptance," then you may observe the same symptoms in other contexts; such as a reluctance to yield feet (as only one example.)

So the "cure" is to get acceptance; first, foremost and always. (Just like resolving your "cold back" would be to get your acceptance of back-slapping.)

The prevalent "natural horsemanship" and "ground work" tools and techniques are the method in general use today to achieve acceptance.

If I were training your horse, we'd be doing a lot of "sacking out" (by whatever euphemism: Friendly Game, petting, etc.) I wouldn't attempt to go to each next step in saddling and mounting her until she demonstrated total acceptance of each step.

For example, I wouldn't put anything on her back (or elsewhere) until she accepted my touching and rubbing her everywhere with no signs reservation or hesitation. Only then would I re-introduce the saddle pad. Then, I'd do so by touching and rubbing her everywhere with the pad, including both ends of the horse; over every orifice. Only when she demonstrates the signs of total acceptance would I place the pad on her back. Then I would start the same technique with the saddle.

Throughout all of this, the watchword is "approach and retreat."

(Just like getting your acceptance of back-slapping would be through gradual introduction to rubbing, then slowing moving on to more and more touching. And just as you may consider a hard slap to be disrespectful, slapping/dropping a saddle on the horse would also be considered disrespectful by the horse.)

The above is only a general overview of the method. To be effective, you'll have to research the specifics in detail. There are many threads on this forum that address the methods, tools and techniques.

One word of caution is in order: Some folks tend to assign the label of "cold back" to horses with a sore back. A sore back is a physical condition and such a horse should not be mounted and rode (by our current sociological conventions.) By labelling a sore-backed horse as "cold backed," people tend to think that it's okay to ride the horse. ("Oh, it's okay, he's just cold backed.") If the horse has a sore back, then they should call the Vet. If not, then they should train the horse for acceptance. (Again, by our current sociological conventions.)

To reiterate, if your horse was here, I'd be focusing on "acceptance;" first, foremost and always.

Best regards,
Harry

[lizayr]

are you talking about parelli?? I need to get up to speed with this i hae only had her A fortnight she is not keen on being brushed, or lifting her feet so i reward with praise and a treat when she does well, she is getting better, would like to know where to find out about parelli, harry wish you lived closer,

[Harry Hobbes]

...I need to get up to speed with thisParelli is one practitioner of natural horsemanship; albeit the most famous world-wide. He can help you; but so can the other natural horsemen.

I suggest that you review the following threads for background:

http://77.72.200.82/forum/showthread.php?t=48058
http://77.72.200.82/forum/showthread.php?t=30926

And this, to put Parelli into perspective:

http://77.72.200.82/forum/showthread.php?t=118335

But back to your immediate problem:

You may wish to start sacking out your mare with a soft brush, because she has a problem with your use of it. Use approach and retreat to get her (a) used to it, and (b) accepting it.

How to:

Approach her with it, watching her demeanor. As long as she is calm, continue your approach. As she becomes uncomfortable/agitated with it, back off until she relaxes, and then approach again. Don't ignore her signs of resistance and continue your approach.

Slowly, but surely, if you consistently approach and retreat, she will allow you to progress further and further with brushing, until she gets to a point where she accepts you walking up to her and brushing her everywhere without any sour looks, ear pinning or tail swishing. Shortly thereafter, she will come to enjoy the brushing.

But here's the Golden Rule to always remember:

We get the behavior we reward.

The retreat is a "release" (i.e., a form of reward) to the horse; so we watch the horse as we approach, and retreat before the horse has a significant adverse reaction. We are thereby rewarding her for first tolerating, then accepting our approach. Over many repetitions, the horse learns (because she has been rewarded) to stand still and accept the brush. But you must pursue this incrementally: approach and retreat.

If you wish to treat your mare, then treat her only when she's doing exactly what you want. Never treat her to entice her to do something you want her to do, but she's not doing, because you'll be rewarding her for the thing she is doing. And she will repeat rewarded behavior; not wanted behavior.

When she's really accepting of the brush, move on to a saddle pad and do it all over again to get that total acceptance. Then with the saddle.

To help her with her feet, review this thread:

http://www.newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41536

Best regards,
Harry

[Peanut]

Thanks Harry. There have been similar threads before but you put it so clearly that for for the first time I actually now understand what cold backed really means. :):)

[lizayr]

thanks for your help Harry will start with brush as you suggested and see how we go from there, anything else you care to share i would appreciate your help thanks again:)

Here are a couple of pictures of my boy Nookie Bear chestnut and my girl Squiral dark bay

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa170/lizayr/P14-04-07_17.14-1.jpg

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa170/lizayr/P22-07-07_18.2111.jpg

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa170/lizayr/27-05-07_1435.jpg

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa170/lizayr/DSC00083.jpg

[laura jeanne]

Yes, thanks Harry. As always, I learn something new every time I read one of your posts.

The horse I've been riding in my lessons has to be bribed with a carrot to go into the wash stall, hates the water and so gets put in the stall (closed on 3 sides) in cross ties to be washed. I know this is ALL WRONG, but so far I have had to follow my RI's method. I have hopes of working with this horse some time but as it is, in the Houston heat, they need to be washed off and this is the only way.

In my last lesson, I had this horse tacked up and was standing on his left side holding him by the bridle and my RI was a bit away from him on his other side (we were waiting for another person to get ready for the lesson) and my RI was holding a whip which is another fear of my horse. She started kind of gently waving it toward my horse and he took a step towards me so he was right next to me and put his head right on my chest! hehe, it was sooo cute! he just nestled up to me for protection from the bad thing. (sorry to get off track of the op)

[Harry Hobbes]

...they need to be washed off and this is the only way. Please don't take offense, but no, that's not the only way. It's the only way your instructor knows.

Missy gets hosed off at liberty. She is not wearing a halter, etc. She just stands there. Or more accurately, starts playing with the water coming out of the nozzle; the hussy! I think I've created a monster: She wants me to do all those maintenance things to her. (I had to shoo her off of the steps a couple of weeks ago: She was coming up on the porch to come into the house. :eek: )

"Harry! Can you come out and play?"

[laura jeanne]

Yes, she knows it's wrong and looked pretty embarrassed when she told me to "bribe" him with a carrot. I guess she has just not taken the time to help him get used to it (she teaches at 4 barns and has to go all over the place so I guess this is not a high priority for her).

hehe, cute picture of Missy!!

[lizayr]

lol gr8 pic Harry she is lovely.:) update on S she is now letting me rub her all over on left sode but not so good on right but were working on it yesterday she lifted all 4 feet really well, had a great day yesterday, she even let the saddle fitter take measurements on her back to, so shes accepting other people touch her to still along way to go but a small improvement :)

[Harry Hobbes]

...update on S she is now letting me rub her all over on left sode but not so good on right but were working on it yesterday she lifted all 4 feet really well, had a great day yesterday, she even let the saddle fitter take measurements on her back to, so shes accepting other people touch her to still along way to go but a small improvement :)Just keep plugging away on it. Keep picking up the feet and setting them down a couple of times a day; eventually, she will come to the point where it's just another thing she does. No big deal.

Laura Jeanne,

If you want to know how to train the horse to accept a hosing off, let me know and I'll post another (in)famous Harry Hobbes training dissertations. It takes about an hour first time; subsequent refreshers take less time.

Best regards,
Harry

[laura jeanne]

Yes please Harry! The last time, I did bribe him into the stall. Then I started with his feet with just a gentle stream of water ( I even used warm water). Then I just kind of went slowly with the rest. No way was I getting near his neck or head. One time before I used a bandana and wet it and held it out for him to sniff and he ended up letting me wash his nose and chin and forehead and even started nibbling the bandana! He doesn't want to have the water near his head but puts his head down nicely for the bridle.

[Harry Hobbes]

Training the Horse to Accept a Hosing with Water

Resources Needed:

1. Halter and Twelve-foot lead rope.

2. Twenty-five foot hose.

3. Hydrant/faucet as a water source.

4. Adjustable spray nozzle on the business end of the hose.

5. Open area (adjacent to the hydrant/faucet) to hose off the horse. The area should be large enough that the horse can move around you on the end of the twelve-foot lead rope.

Technique:

Advance and retreat with the stream of water.

Procedure:

1. Stand the horse in the open area, hold on to the lead rope at the mid-point.

2. Have the horse face you.

3. Turn your back to the horse and face the same way the horse is facing (as if leading the horse.)

4. Turn on the water and adjust the nozzle for a solid stream that shoots out at least twenty feet.

5. While holding the lead rope, point the nozzle the same direction you and the horse are facing; that is, point it away from the horse. (You should now be standing between the horse and the nozzle/stream of water.)

6. Start spraying in left and right arcs, 90 degrees to your left and then right; first to one side, then the other. Get a slow rhythm established so that you complete each left/right cycle in two-to-three seconds. The horse may attempt to stay as far away from the stream as it can.

7. If the horse moves its feet, reduce the degrees of arc, but keep the stream moving left/right.

8. Continue this until the horse does not move its feet. (Eventually, the horse will realize that it can just stand there and not be hurt.)

9. When the horse consistently stands still and remains fairly relaxed, extend the arc to 120 degrees to the left and right (getting closer to the horse) with the stream of water. Repeat steps 7 and 8 as required.

10. When the horse consistently stands still and remains fairly relaxed, extend the arc to almost touching the horse on the left and right (getting closer to the horse) with the stream of water. Repeat steps 7 and 8 as required.

11. When the horse consistently accepts the water coming close to its left/right flanks, turn around and face the horse.

12. From the left, move the stream out 90 degrees and then back to splash its right front hoof, then immediately away again.

13. Repeat until the horse stands there and accepts the water stream hitting the hoof.

14. Repeat on your right side.

15. Then, use the same technique on each rear hoof.

16. Then, use the same technique on each cannon bone.

When the horse will stand still and allow hosing of all feet and cannon bones, then change the routine as follows:

17. Starting at a front hoof, approach and retreat up the leg to the elbow.

18. Do the same for the other front leg, and then the rear legs up to the stifle.

When the horse will stand still and allow hosing of all legs, then change the routine as follows:

19. Approach and retreat up each front leg and shoulder to the withers.

20. Then approach and retreat up each rear leg to the hips.

When the horse will stand still and allow hosing of withers and hips, then change the routine as follows:

21. Approach and retreat from the front legs to the girth and then the belly.

When the horse will stand still and allow hosing of the entire girth and belly area, to include its entire underside then change the routine as follows:

22. Approach and retreat up the legs, over the withers and across the back.

(Do the belly first and the back last, as water on the back causes more reaction than water on the belly.)

23. Once the horse is good to go on the back, then approach and retreat up the neck on both sides.

Key points to Remember:

24. Always approach and retreat, and don't "push your luck." You want the horse to stand there, not leave; so retreat before it leaves.

25. If the horse moves its feet, then you approached too close, so retreat and approach again.

26. Don't slow your movement down to a crawl; your movements with the hose should be fairly brisk. You should be in and out (approach and retreat) within a couple of seconds.

This routine takes about one hour on a very sensitive horse. Of course, the routine should be repeated over several sessions to get the horse totally acclimated to the hosing.

Let me know how you so…

Harry