Yield To The Bit (Backing)

[Blair Witch]

I'm having a hard time to get Flash to yield to the bit, especially on the trail. I am able to get him to drop his head when I ask for collection, but when I ask him to back up and pokes his nose out and resists me. I use my seat, legs and rein pressure to ask him to back up. I ask gently at first, with my fingers and increase the pressure until I get a response. He will back up eventually, but he's really resisting.

When I first got him, he didn't know how to back up at all. He would just plant his feet and pin his ears then dance around, so we've made a bit of progress.

I usually use a snaffle. I've tried backing him in a shank, and it's a bit better, but he's still trying to resist. What kind of exercises could I do to make him yield to the bit and to stop resisting?

[Skyhuntress]

Have you tried backing him up on the ground first? That usually helps.

Secondly, if he's really being difficult, sometimes having a person push on his chest while you provide the aids of the bit and your legs really seems to help some horses as well.

Just a few suggestions :)

[wonkeywoody]

"Have you tried backing him up on the ground first? That usually helps."

I totally agree. Its usually much easier to solve a problem from the ground. Mine still resists when I back him up when mounted. Its partly a respect issue, but once committed I dont give up until I get a move in the right direction, then he gets lots of praise. The REALLY weird thing is I asked him to reverse snaking thro cones and he did it with hardly any resistance at all!!!!
Horses huh???

[coss]

is your horse ready to move backwards? it is a tricky thing for a horse to do and comes over time. i know one horse in particular that simply won't yield to the bit when backing up and his rein back isn't going to get better.
make sure you can do it on the ground first and i would do it as a general thing so the horse is doing it regularly but relaxed. that way when you ask under saddle its not such a big deal.
try using less rein pressure, think back and move your seat as if you are moving back then start to put the leg pressure/rein pressure on, you should be using the "stop" aid with the reins and "go forwards" with the legs (well similar) to ask for rein back. some horses are more responsive if you use your legs alternately to ask for each step. its a bit like the difference between "kick kick" to "go faster" and a slide with the outside leg that says canter ;)

[Zingy]

Another vote for teaching from the ground. Plus always use a voice command. I've found it transfers nicely to ridden work once the voice command is well established as you need minimal rein aids (I can generally get away with a squeeze and saying back). If I need more than gentle rein pressure, I repeat the voice command and tap him on the chest with a dressage whip - same as I would on the ground.

[JamesJackson]

I'm not a fan of voice commands at all, they're too sluggish - how are you going to time a voice command with when you should (say) be asking for a canter strike off when the leading fore is striking the ground... Command takes time, horse processing it takes time etc etc.

Anyway, sounds like you haven't done enough ground work before getting on board...

[Grace O'Malley]

Another vote for starting on the ground.

Morocha had no clue how to rein back when I first got her (as least not in response to any cue I knew how to give), which surprised me in an otherwise experienced horse. We started on the ground, with a halter, tying the lead rope to make "reins". Then graduated to bridle, from the ground, and eventually to from the saddle.

Don't forget to "reward the try" :) By which I mean at first reward for a backward weight shift, then start looking for a foot to move and so on. It takes a while to get a nice, quick, straight, long back up.

[Zingy]

I'm not a fan of voice commands at all, they're too sluggish - how are you going to time a voice command with when you should (say) be asking for a canter strike off when the leading fore is striking the ground... Command takes time, horse processing it takes time etc etc.

But in schooling a young or untrained horse you don't need that level of precision from day 1. And in any case, there's always horse processing time, no matter what your aids are. Voice commands give a very useful method of bridging the gap when the aids you use for groundwork are not easily applied in ridden work. And they help you teach the horse to respond to more subtle aids without unnecessary stress and tension.

[JamesJackson]

I disagree. By starting with them you're sowing the seeds of tardyness. The point is that horses learn by repitition, so you might as well teach the aid you wish to go on with!

Also, the aids on the ground should be very similar to those used on board. Jaw flexions, turns on the forehand, leg yielding etc all translate directly to ridden work.

[Skib]

I taught my favourite RS horse to back up Rashid style with no leg, very easily, following the instructions in
Mark Rashid, Horses Never Lie; The Heart of Passive Leadership. Look at the chapter, Finding the Try where he describes how he himself learned to do this.
In a clinic Mark sometimes may lend a hand from the ground but always it is done with a rider.

If you want to teach back up in the English fashion, and using leg, there is a section on how to do it in Richard Maxwell's latest dvd. But I've not tried that myself.

[Zingy]

Whatever works for you. I've never had a problem with tardyness, but I can see why you'd want to do things differently if you think it may develop. Maybe I just expect too little at early stages of training :D