Tips on teaching large foal to halter and lead?

[Peace]

The way it's usually done round here is to get two really big burly guys and have them a) hold critter down till they get the halter on and b) wrap rope around critter and manhandle it along.

I'm thinking there's gotta be an easier way :)

My idea is to bribe the little beast. I was thinking maybe one could start out just giving the critter a treat for coming to a person holding a halter, and work from there. Y'know, treat for foal allowing itself to be touched with halter, then foal has to touch nose to halter for treat, etc.

Of course, I've never done this before, and baby is large enough to stomp me into mulch. Is there a flaw in my plan (for instance, will foal just decide to mug me and take treats by force?)?

Any suggestions?

[me2]

Ideally a foal will have gotten used to having its halter put on from the day it's born. It can be lead around following its mother & within a month should be fully halter trained.

If your foal is older than a couple of months then, at the risk of going against the grain here, I'd be inclined to go along with the two really big burly guys idea. Whilst it might sound nice to do things gently the little creature really needs someone to show him who is boss at this stage & you will find a properly halter broken foal a joy to lead around. You also need to ensure you can pick out his feet & that he is happy being touched & groomed in all parts of his body including his mouth.

I've got a Shetland who is due to foal at any time now so hopefully I'll be putting my own words into practice :)

[Lgd]

We put foal slips on ours within the first two or three days once they are more used to being touched and handled. Start off by handling Mum and brushing her, foals are pretty curious and he will be in your grooming kit pretty fast. Foals don't really manage treats like older horses and I would try and avoid them anyway as they tend to be chewy and mouthy without being encouraged. Get him used to being touched all over, if you crouch down at his level you will be less intimidating and curiosity usually wins. Once he accepts you touching him and placing your arms over him you can introduce the foal slip. Most are designed so that you can fasten the nose and headslip separately so fasten headslip part first and then the nose section second. Once he is happy with this you can put it on like an ordinary headcollar with the nose section fastened. At first don't lead him with it, just let him follow Mum. Once confident with the foal slip attach a lead rein and get him to follow Mum, if he is a bit balky just gently place a hand behind his bottom to encourage him forward. They learn very quickly, main thing to teach them is no playing when on the lead, it's cute now but not when they turn into a big stroppy yearling. Gentle tug on the lead rein and a firm 'no' is usually enough.

[Peace]

Good point about the treats - I certainly don't want to encourage bad habits!:)

Unfortunately, foal is over four months old. Thankfully, she belongs to someone else ;) , who is pretty set on the two big burly guys idea. And, by the time I see her next, she may well have been separated from Mama.

I understand now why it's a good idea to start when they're a day or so old!:D

[HorseDancer]

I don't think I would go with the burly guys idea no matter how big this foal is. If this foal is started out in a threatening manner then it will likely be difficult all the way through training. As suggested previously, I would just start being around it through being around mom quite a bit. Foals aren't too hard to encourage to be friends. Now, it will take a great deal of patience and many try and try agains to get this foal leading but with the help of mom leading the way it will happen and without any brute force. The trick to foal training is to do short lessons several times a day. Think of them as you would a 2 year old human child. They're not going to sit down and study math for an hour but if you go over it for a 5 or 10 min. session maybe 4 or 5 times a day, it won't be long before they know some addition tables. Same with the foal. Once something is done the way it should be done, i.e. the foal takes a step or two forward while being lead, give tons of praise and let the lesson end there. Then try again in a couple of hours. Then again once it's done, stop and let the lesson end. Once the foal has the hang of the couple steps then go for 5 and so on. Soon the foal will realize, "hey, if I do what they want then they really love on me and let me go play".

[Kerry's Partner!!]

Is the goal for the foal to be terrified of humans (big burly guys) or for the foal to just begin to trust them a bit??? Also, would the separation between Mama and foal take place before or after this?? I'm sorry but I'm really asking: What is the hurry?

[Peace]

I don't know - did you mean what's the hurry about getting her wearing a halter, or about separating her from her mother? I have no idea what the normal age is to separate - I know next to nothing about baby horses! (One reason I'm interested in helping with this situation is to try to learn more about them.)

I have seen a foal of a similar age held down to get the halter on, and, since that occasion produced much screeching, kicking and swearing, I was sorta hoping there was another way to go about it!:) (Although I must say the foal didn't seem to have any lasting problems - I was surprised she didn't - but she really seemed to trust her trainer, who was the guy who held her down to put the halter on.)

I like the praise idea, but how do you get the little critter to allow you to put on the halter in the first place? Just gradually get her used to it?

[HorseDancer]

Getting the halter on isn't really the biggest issue here. That will be relatively easy once you can get your hands on the foal. You didn't say there is a rush on this so I'm assuming that these people with the foal are just "cowboys = believe in old school methods of training... i.e. force of will" and want it done now. Really, unless the foal is really large and draining mom or if mom is pushing the foal away, the foal could reasonably stay with mom another month, perhaps two which would give plenty of time to use mom to help get foal adjusted to human presence and touch. Take mom out for walks, groom mom, do a lot of things with mom that will get the foal around humans. While doing all this be very casual in touching foal or even brushing the foal a bit. Don't make a big to-do about it but just make it very casual and if the foal walks away, no biggie just let the foal be around people and get used to it. They're very curious and playful anyway and it shouldn't be long before the foal is finding ways of touching the humans (sometimes crouching down helps as then you don't appear so huge). Just let it all happen very naturally and then when the foal is pretty secure in being touched, etc put a weanling halter on it. Just be very, very, very sure that the halter fits nicely and isn't loose enough for a small hoof to get caught in it. Just let the foal be with it for a few days while it gets used to wearing it. Once the foal is comfortable wearing the halter, then again use mom to help the foal learn about leading. Have someone lead mom while you or someone else "leads" the foal. In actuality the foal will be following mom but getting accustomed to walking with a lead rope attached to it and also with someone walking right near it. And there you go... foal training has begun.

[Peace]

I'm going to print this out and give it a try, if I get the chance. The one thing I do remember my friend saying was that the foal was "pulling" too much on mom and she's beginning to lose weight, so they may have separated them already. But I think some of these techniques would work even with baby alone.

These are generally pretty gentle folk when it comes to horses. I think the objection to trying it this way is two-fold: they don't think it will work, and they suspect I'll get hurt trying :) .

[HorseDancer]

There's no doubt foal can be raucous at times but that's because they don't know what's expected of them or they're really just being playful and they don't realize that you can't play that way. Foals really should be started as soon as they are born but that's not to say that one shouldn't give an older foal a chance for a good, kind beginning. Once thing else to try if you are not going to use mom to help teach leading and if the foal simply is not getting the idea of moving forward while being led. You can take a soft, cotton rope and loop it around the foals neck (not a noose but not loose enough to get all tangled up either) and slip the free end around the foal hiney (above hocks) and use this to help persuade the foal forward. Tension on the free end should encourage the hind legs forward. The foal's reward should always be lots of praise and a release from the training session. That doesn't necessarily mean that as soon as the foal does what you ask that you turn him into the pasture but you stop asking that particular thing. You can stop and go into a grooming session or something that would be pleasurable for the foal and also has hidden training as well.

[Peace]

I've seen that technique used at another barn to teach a foal to lead, but I don't know if I'm strong enough to do it! The foal in that case reared and bucked and fought something awful:eek: ! Of course, this was a foal who'd been held down to get the halter on, so she may have thought it was a prelude to another wrestling match. Or not - I know when you teach puppies to lead they sometimes dig in their little heels and scream for no apparent reason. Kids!:p

When this baby is separated from mom, they'll probably put her with an older gelding who's good with young-uns. I'm hoping she'll follow him, and I can use him to help her get the idea!

[chev]

Just a few thoughts on foals and halters...

The first thing is that we made it our goal to handle the foal first; getting a halter on was secondary and only tried when the foal was confident about being touched without. We found this made the whole thing less of a trauma and the foals, even though they were older, were generally pretty compliant and less worried. Obviously this wouldn't work where the foal has to be led from the start, for show purposes for example.

I start leading in a stable or small fenced area, very gently. The idea is that you put gentle pressure on the halter and the minute the foal steps forward (encouraged by treat, mother, or general invitation) pressure is released. Building it up from there is easy and we never had much in the way of panic or fighting the halter to contend with.

Once the foal knows to move with me on a lead in the small area, we go out (with mum) into a field. They tend to dance around a bit then but because the principal of moving into pressure is mostly already established, it's not usually to extremes.

Our goal has always been to accomplish halter training slowly and quietly and without "teaching the foal he can't win a pulling contest", basically because I am small and light and when foal grows up, he definately could win. Best that he simply learns to co-operate.

The only other thing that concerns me is weaning at four months. I know that most people feel that weaning at 5 - 6 months is correct, and for those wishing to bring the mare back into work, desirable, but left to their own devices foals would wean when their dams are next due to foal; 11 months later. Although this is not practical in domestic horses, I do feel that leaving a foal on its mother for around 7 - 8 months is beneficial to the foal, and, psychologically, to its mother, providing she is coping with the added strain of the foal.

Our mares kept their foals for between 8 months and a year; weaning was never traumatic and in most cases accomplished simply by putting the mare in a nearby field. They rarely noticed and never had to be shut out of earshot or anything like that.

After having said all that, different people have different methods and who's to say which is best? That just works for me. Hope it helps a bit.

[me2]

I fully agree with chev that 4 months is far too young to be weaning a foal. Apart from being deprived of it's mother's milk it still has a lot to learn from it's mum at this stage.

I have often heard that the foal is 'dragging mother down'. The simple answer is to FEED mother properly. Many people put mum on a high protein conditioning diet which is very rich & often mum's won't eat much or not much is offered anyway because of the cost. I have found that a feed value of low nutritional value but high in quantity is often much more appreciated by mum & keeps the weight on without any trouble.

Do keep us posted with how you get on :)

[lisae]

The people who own the stallion who sired our Haflinger foal came over to see her, and they report that they wean at TWO months. Our filly is two months tomorrow and I can't imagine that a baby that young would be ready, she eats the hay and feed along side her mom but after a few minutes loses interest. I've tried feeding her tidbits of apple when we are working on our leading but she really doesn't find treats to be an incentive. (Which is probably a good thing.) Since we are keeping her, I thought we would gradually build up to some time away from Mom so we can take the mare out driving (see post on Other Disciplines) but I'm leaving the foal to nurse until it seems like they are ready. I also noticed that the mare, who's maintained weight well on a substantial hard feed high in protein, is even starting to put on some weight, so I've cut her back in the feed and upped her hay intake.

As to baby, we've been working on leading and this past weekend, taught the tying lesson for the first time, carefully supervised and using an inner tube for some play in case she pulled back. I held onto a long lead run through the tube and stood behind and to the side of her. She did pull rather dramatically, it was a scary so I gave her a little slack but then told her "walk" and thankfully it had sunk in and she stepped forward! It was like a light going on for her, big praise and she went back to nibbling on the hay I had put out at head level. When we tried tying again the next day, she didn't pull back! It is a huge relief when you can see the results of the many short sessions I've been doing with her. I note that she resisted the halter for several days in a row by tossing her head and backing up but I persisted and one day she just stood like a grownup horse and the halter has gone on calmly ever since. Amazing!

[chev]

lisae, your foal is lucky to have someone as patient and understanding as you are. It's sad but there are a number of people who seem to like the idea of battling with a foal - one breeder described to me recently how he taught foals to halter by tying them to a post till they exhausted themselves fighting, at which point you "pull him about a bit to show him who's boss". (He even said it was best if you could get them to throw themselves on the ground). I think it's just the equine equivalent of beating small children into doing what you want but there are those who'd disagree.

As for weaning at two months! I can't imagine why anyone would think there was any benefit to be had in doing that! The foal still has a nutritional and psychological need for its mother way beyond that age. It's also worth thinking about the possible effects of premature weaning on the mare; they have very close bonds with their foals and I can't imagine how distraught a mare would be having her foal removed at such a young age, not to mention the risk of developing mastitis and even laminitis.

Good luck with your foal lisae; it sounds like she's had a great start in life.

[HorseDancer]

Originally posted by chev
one breeder described to me recently how he taught foals to halter by tying them to a post till they exhausted themselves fighting, at which point you "pull him about a bit to show him who's boss". (He even said it was best if you could get them to throw themselves on the ground).

These are those people I described previously as "cowboys". I think the term describes them perfectly according to the Hollywood standards for movies. They seem to get most of their ideas from watching old west flicks.

As to the foal weaning, Chev, you are absolutely correct. There is no way that weaning at 2 months should be even considered. Don't forget that larger breeds need even more of a nutritional start for those large bones and joints. I can't even begin to think how many of those foals have been stunted in growth by weaning so early. Six months is about the norm I think, although I do agree with your philosophy in keeping things closely to how they would be in the wild. Mares begin to push the foals away naturally anyway without human interference. Many breeders do remove a foal who has grown to be unexpectedly large and is draining mom earlier, although if the mare can be maintained there is no reason why the foal shouldn't be left with mom longer. Most of these early weanings are a result of performance pressure which makes absolutely no sense considering that nursing by itself induces contractions of the uterine and abdomen muscles, thereby returning the mare to pre-pregnancy form naturally. There is also no reason why light riding and training can't be returned to the mare to keep her ahead of her game. I wouldn't recommend longing of the mare because the foal will be following and this would tire the foal tremendously but simple walking and some trotting, doing laterals wouldn't hurt for short periods. The simple fact is that anyone who is considering breeding their mare ought to keep in mind that they are giving up the full use of that mare for 6 - 12 months following birth and sometimes several months prior to birth. If that doesn't work in their plans then simply don't breed.

[Peace]

Just wanted to let everybody know how the baby is coming along. She's still with mom, and probably will be until she's six months old. And my friend has been working with her so that she's now very confident about being touched. In fact, she's so confident that my friend thinks she has a good chance of persuading the baby to wear a halter, without having to restrain her.

Have y'all ever wondered how people get the idea that physical force makes a good training tool? I don't think it's just that humans are a violent species, because apparently not all cultures use (or used) violent means to train horses (I'm thinking of the Bedouins, ancient Greeks, and American Indian tribes). But force sure seems to have been the preferred method for lots of folks for a long time. Anybody have any idea why, since gentle persuasion seems (to me, anyway) like the easier method?

[chev]

I think is more cultural than anything. Cultures that treat each other with respect seem to extend that to their animals, cultures that have little or no respect for human rights generally don't recognise those of their animals.

People have spent so long believing nonsence like "spare the rod spoil the child" it simply doesn't occur to them there might be a better, kinder way. They see training as mastering the horse instead of a partnership and because they get results, however inhumane the methods are, they feel the end justifies the means. Things do change, are changing, but it takes time...

I'm glad your friend is trying the gentler approach with her foal. It might take longer, but it certainly makes for a far happier horse, and a far better relationship with him. In this case, the quality of the result is its own reward.

I'm not saying there will never be a need to discipline; just that firm, friendly handling is far more productive than force, and even disciplining need not be violent to be effective. Far better to show someone what behaviour you want, be it horse, dog or even child, than to beat them into doing it.

[HorseDancer]

Originally posted by Peace
Have y'all ever wondered how people get the idea that physical force makes a good training tool?

I really think a lot of it has to do with impatience. One of the reason cowboys used to break horses the way they did (several in 1 day by just throwing the saddle and staying on until the horse tired itself out or taking the horse into water so deep it couldn't buck or rear so wildly) is because their time was taken up with so many chores and often they needed the new horses immediately for larger tasks coming up. It takes a long time to "train" a horse but takes mere hours to "break" one.
Another reason is for the human need for dominance. We have to dominate that which we possess. Man is greater than all other creatures and all that rubbish. Besides, men (women) are wimps who can't control the beast.

[sallymallett]

I have just bought a 7 month old foal that has just been weaned. He was totally unhandled when i got him but i spent a few days just going in his stable to muck out feed, water etc. and soon he was beginning to trust me after 2 weeks i can put a head collar on him straight away with no fuss and lead him a short distance. He is very wary of others still as he had little human contact for 7 months! but with slow steady training sessions i am sure he will come round. His only real problem is at the mo is that he doesn't like hard feed too much!! but is learning.

I would suggest you get the foals confidence before trying to do anything with him. If the foal cannot trust you then it will make it very difficult for you later down the line.
:)

[KateWooten]

Have any of you guys with foals read JohnLyons' 'Bringing up Baby' ? I'm not a major fan of johnLyons for older horses, just because I think there are better easier faster approaches BUT ... bringing up baby is by quite a long way, the best thing I've read for thinking about how to approach a yojngster and set him up for the rest of his life. JohnLyons is certainly along the lines of the 'new' horsemen, rather than the old-school cowboys and I would recommend that book, particularly for Peace because I thik it would add hugely to your enjoyment and understanding of this baby's learning process (and you might be able to show a few cowboys a gentler way :) )

[Peace]

Y'all oughta see that "baby" now - Tracer's grown up to be a very sassy chestnut QH mare who delights in annoying my paint horse, Quanah (somebody's gotta do it).:D She loves to run in his stall at suppertime and steal a mouthful of his food before running to her own, even though he beats her up for it every time he catches her. I think she knows she's going to end up being bigger than he is.;)

I was about three months off on her age in my original post - Tracer turned four this past October.

When I wrote that post, I had just watched a group of foals at a stud farm being "broke" to halter. Yikes, is all I've got to say.:eek: But Tracer's barn - where I still board the boys - ascribes to gentler, kinder methods, although I didn't know it at the time of my original post. Since I can't even remember how we finally got a halter on her it must not have been a very traumatic process.:)

Tracer actually proved pretty adept at training us - for a long time, she'd plant her feet midway down the barn aisle and refuse to move until whoever was leading her scratched her crest just right.:rolleyes: :p

[Skib]

I cant add to the good advice you have been given on handling the foal and accustoming it to ropes and halters.
But if you have access to its mother as well, I would make sure that every time I went to handle the foal, I put a halter on the mother and led her around. There is a long tradition of training young farm horses by allowing them to observe and immitate their parents and other adult horses at work. it seems that animal psychologists now think this is the way many animals learn best.
I dont have any experience of working with a foal, but if the mare leads happily, one would expect the foal to learn to follow willingly alongside. And to learn what is expected. Once you get to the point where the foal is happy in a head collar and following its mother without a lead rope, the attaching of a second lead rope to the foal so that you can lead the two of them together should be a small further step.
Having watched a couple of NH trainers work with foals, in one case with the mother horse present, the problem has not been to get the foal to follow a human and not its mother, but to teach the foal some discipline in following a human trainer: that is to stay out of the trainers (human's) space and to halt and walk on by observing the trainer.