Parelli & Maxwell

[Lucy J]

Is it true that Parelli trained Richard Maxwell
I thought Maxwell promoted Monty Roberts methods.

There is a Parelli person coming to our yard apparently because he is cheaper than Maxwell and 'taught him anyway'

since reading things on this page and elsewhere I am sceptical about the parelli method of training, although the yard owners say it is wonderful and they can see a difference with what their horses are doing from the little they've done already.

Am I being small minded?
SHould it be normal for a horse to fetch sticks and allow its owner to do what it wants when it wants.

I do not know a great deal about Parelli, but am very sceptical. Please can I have some feedback?

Thanks very much

[Aly]

I don't know wether you could consider it normal for a horse to fetch sticks, although, ultimately, it really is just playing a game with your horse, and helping to keep his mind interested, sharp and alert.

However I do strongly believe that all horses should do what you ask, when you ask without question as long as they have been taught to do so, or are in the process of being taught what you expect, and as long as your request is reasonable. A horse cannot be expected to do something that is not natural for him to do, or something he hasn't been prepared for properly. All horse training is about breaking things up into small pieces to help the horse understand what we want. When we attempt to speak his language, there is a fair chance he will come to understand our request far quicker than if we were to talk human to him.

I am no Parelli, Roberts etc. expert, but I have attended a number of natural horsemanship schools, clinics and private lessons. I went into these clinics awfully sceptical, and came out thinking, wow there is other ways to go about things.

I find the most beneficial lessons for me were of body language, and how to use it to position the horse where you want it, etc. This has helped me immensly, my riding has improved, my ability to communicate to the horse, and to my students has too.

So whilst I am not a true Natural Horsmanship convert, and I may not fully approve of the sudden "commercialisation" of it all, I still find myself deeply respecting these people, and absorbing as much of it all as I can. For me, life with horses is a never ending cycle of learning, and I am open to learn anything that I feel may be of benefit to my horses as well as to myself.

Hope this makes some fragment of sense to you...Cheers Aly

[Lucy J]

yes this helps, I mean don't get me wrong, I am very much unconventional and use body language and have learned 'horse' language as well as having used join-up.

I am just wondering if there are extremes that people are going to that may in effect by physcologically harming to the horse and be to an extent unnatural - taking the natural methods to extremes so to speak.

I have heard dreadful stories of parelli trained horses being submissive to the point of depression, and this concerns me.

I do hope this is not the case, but I am more concerned with keeping my horse happy than having him do everything I say. I want an equal partnership, I do not want to dominate.

[lolaelsa]

Lucy,

Have you read any of Mark Rashid's books, particularly "Horses Never Lie". You just must. To be blunt.

Going by what you are feeling, this man is just what you need. He does not have a big commercial operation and he is quite a humble chap who doesn't TELL you how to do things but SHOWS you how you might arrive at your own answers.

He challenges the "alpha" leader theory which seems to be the mainstay of "natural horsemanship" and asks (and shows us) how we can become the horse's CHOSEN leader. - This is the horse in the herd that the others <b>choose</b> to follow. They follow their chosen leader calmly and happily. They are not bullied in the way the "alpha" horse would make demands of them.

I don't think that a horse should have to do whatever we ask of them without question. That is not a partnership. To be sure "the send-away" and the "i am your alpha" do get amazing results. Some have made a fortune out of it too. - but you mention horses depressed in their submission.

- in "Horses Never Lie", Mark Rashid concedes that the lady in the round pen pushing her horse around because she DEMANDS it does get EXACTLY what she wants - but he was astonished and deeply saddened to see the resignation in the horse's eye and in his carriage. - souless and colourless.

His stories are amazing and you see that he often gives his horses he benefit of doubt. "What is my horse trying to tell me?" If his horse thinks a request is unreasonable then he'll listen to him and they find a solution TOGETHER. They are two partners in agreement and they both want the same thing. Lovely.
Anway, i can't recommend him enough. I'll shut up now.
Let me know - when you've read them!

[Sharon H]

I think that the reason that horses get fed up with Parelli is that people take it to extremes and do too much of it with them. I think sensible people would find out about it and pick the bits out that apply to them and their horses rather than following the whole thing slavishly. Some people seem to get an almost religious fevour about things like this and leave common sense way behind!
I was quite interested in the concept but the price of the packages put me off before I'd even started.
I find Kelly Marks' approach the best way really, although she is a Monty Roberts protege, her Intelligent Horsemanship Association is really all about finding out about ALL the different methods of horsemanship and applying them to suit each individual. To my mind the fact that every horse is an individual and every human is as well adds up to so many variables that it is impossible for any one method to work for everyone. Because riding and horsemanship is based so much on the realtionship between horse and rider it can't be approached from a standard formular.
If I were you, I would certainly see what this chap has to say, and if you think any of his methods will help you and your horse, give them a go but don't be pressured into doing something that doesn't feel right for you. Good luck, let us know how it goes.

[Lucy J]

I will definitely buy that book and read it - thanks.

Oh I just don't know about this Parelli thing at all. I was watching the yard owner who has some mobility problems, with their 2 year old and the carrot and stick thing. It just doesn't look right. Maybe I am too critical, although the horse is being obedient and is letting her sit on him when he's lying down and things. Maybe I am just a big sceptic.

Does anyone know if Parelli taught Richard Maxwell?

[Sue Carnell]

Richard Maxwell trained and worked with Monty Roberts.

I don't know how much he did with Pat Parelli after that, but there was an article ages ago in one of the magazines about Pat Parelli and Richard Maxwell meeting up. Whether Max went on and did more I don't know.

Who is the Parelli trainer who's coming to your yard? I agree with Sharon H, it's worth a look and to see what he has to say. I think you can learn from anyone, even if it turns out unsuitable for you, or all you learn is what not to do. :)

Sue Carnell
sue@eclipse.co.uk

[Lucy J]

I'm not sure who is coming to the yard, I'll find out, I thought that maxwell trained with monty roberts.

I think what makes me so upset with these methods of traning is the expensive ropes and gadgets and the way they market themselves and do things like say "Parelli trained Richard Maxwell, we're better"

it just completely puts me off. All they care about is making money.

[Dizzy]

Let us know what happens, and what you think.

I saw a Parelli exhibition at Equus earlier this year, I was put off immediately with the introduction, it was very loud and 'in your face'. But as I watched the two horses being worked I was very impressed at the level of communication and understanding between the horses and thier handlers.

The most impressive was a girl in a motorised wheel chair and her Freisan horse, I had a lump in my throat as big as an apple, she free lunged him, changed the rien, halt, back up, she loaded him into a horse box while she was sat half way up a full size arena and the box was at the bottom, at the end he laid down at her feet. This horse was gorgeous and knew it, his eyes were bright, ears pricked and kneck arched, he looked happy and proud. It certainly brought it home to me that anything is possible.

One thing I like about Parelli is that they say 'this is what can be achieved, if you work through our training methods'. I absolutely hate the way MR and RM have used 'join up' to create submission, introduction of saddle,bridle and backing all in one fell swoop, when they do clinics. I saw Richard Maxwell do this, the young horse panicked completely with the introduction to the saddle, it charged round absolutely terrified, bucking and squealing, he was eventually calmed down, but stood shaking and took alot of convincing to leave the round pen. I felt sick to the stomach that any youngsters career should start like that, there are no short cuts, and they shouldn't try to suggest there are.

Anyway, look forward to hearing about your visit.

Lesley

[Nickie]

Dizzy - I saw the demo at Equus too! I completely agree - when I saw the intro - I thought "this is just another big ego and this is going to be crap!"

when i saw the demo I really was impressed - but I will admit - highly sceptical. Since then - one of the young girls at our yard - Amy - has learnt level one parelli. She tried it on one of the fairly schooled horses at our yard (although he has never used parelli before) and within 10 minutes he was being ridden - no saddle, no bridle, willingly turning to weight aids, and being jumped with a rider. He has not been ridden without a bridle ever! And the lack of a saddle was culture shock for his rider!

Amy has only ever used parelli with her horse - who was apparently unrideable because he did not have the 'mindset' to carry a rider (used to run them in to walls and buck). Now he will take a rider and transfer through the gaits but no more than that. She has only had him a few months and the change in him is astounding. (He lived at our yard for the last few years - and few owners!)

I have offered Amy the chance to try some of her parelli out on my 12 year old share - who is obstinate, stubborn, and still thinks he's a stallion. I will let you know what happens! However - I have manged to teach him somethings over the year I have shared him - if she can teach him more in one day than I have in a year - I have promised to convert to parelli! :p

Lastly - not to have a go. But everyone who I have spoken to about the parelli mentions the 'disabled lady and her horse'. I'm not disabled, but it is not impossible that a disabled rider can train horses to this level - with time, patience, the right approach and knowledge anyone can. Please do not put her on a higher pedestal because of her differing circumstances. I heard her talking to people after the display - and the one thing she did make clear was "anyone can get their horses to do this. Just because I am disabled doesn't make my acheivements any bigger - it just means I have to find different ways to do them!"
(Ok rant over - and yes I thought her display was the better section of the parelli display - hers was the only bit that showed signs of being organised and planned - the others just rambled on with no real message - except for buy our £70 starter pack!)

And I will admit - I did fall in love with her horse! :D :p

N

PS - If I offended anybody with the comment I apologise.

[Dizzy]

Hi Nickie

I understand you're not 'having a go', but I do think that what that lass has accomplished, is fantastic and I admire her.

Nearly everyone I know, myself included has, at sometime or other had a problem with thier horse, and sometimes overcoming it isn't easy. I've seen quite a few horses written off, and either sold, or left in the field to chomp grass, or regarded as unrideable and used as breeding stock.

Just reading NR alone the problems encountered on lunging are many, I've read so many posts stating that my horse 'doesn't like' or 'won't' lunge and also countless posts about loading problems. So we all know problems can and do occur.

After watching Silke (I think thats her name) and the relationship and understanding she has built with her horse shows us just what is possible - I would have been extremely impressed if she was able bodied, but I do think her disability strengthens what time, patience, determination, understanding and knowledge can achieve.

What she has accomplished would not have been easy, and I think she's a modest, but very determined young lady. Thats my rant over ;)

I look forward to hearing how Amy fairs with your horse, though I was very impressed with Parelli, I'm not a convert, though I do have a Parelli book and use bits and pieces, now and again. I mainly use TTeam methods combined with alot of adlibing :D

Lesley

[Nickie]

Hi Lesley

I do understand what you are saying - she did say that her horse used to knock her wheelchair over at first didn't she?

It wasn't having a go - but we can all acheive things - the range of questions, and abilities of people on here and we can all say - "I did that" about something prooves it. Just some people have to find alternate means of acheiving the same goals.

I wouldn't say I was a convert to parelli but I will be using a lot of its principles if Amy gets more from him that I have been able to. She hasn't even met Brennin yet - so the whole experience will be completely new to both of them.

Fingers crossed I can finally work out what my 'old boy' is thinking! :p

Nicola

[Lucy J]

well I watched the video yesterday and I'm still not impressed. I don't see that anything can be achieved that can't be done with 'ordinary' training.

Whats making me really miffed is that I discovered yesterday the yard owner has been doing stuff with my horse in the field as she (my horse) keeps 'being nosy' when the owner works with one of her ponies.

I don't want to be rude, but this really makes me angry. My youngster needs consistency, and I don't like when I don't know what is going on, but I don't want to cause trouble and say anything and personally I don't think work like this should be conducted in their relaxation area (field).

It just winds me up. If I wanted to use parelli I would do it myself. I don't like people who only half know what they're doing phaffing around with my horse. Sorry, I suppose that is touching on a different subject now.

[galadriel]

Before I'd even heard of join-up, just playing with my horse, we got to that point-- and have the most incredible bond. Just watching her body language--I free-lunge her until she's "done," at which point she stops, I drop the lunge whip, and she walks in to me. We walk around, she follows in my footsteps, does exactly what I do. We worked this out just from watching each others' body languages.

She may be submitting, but there's no depression. She sparkles! She loves to work. Even people who don't know anything about horses can tell that Kat adores me and loves to play with me. (I should have known when she started walking away from the halter that something was wrong--%^&* farrier--all fixed now.)

I guess what I'm saying is that even if you don't care for any one person's methods, some of the concepts can be adapted (or discovered on your own) for your own horse. But we worked this out on our own, watching each other. I don't think any one method can be applied uniformly to all horses!

[Lucy J]

yeah I agree, maybe what I see as 'ordinary' training though, which is like you have described is because I do have an insight into horses that maybe some people don't have.

I suppose some people do need to be educated and where I find it extreme maybe some people need that to understand the concepts. hhmm. not sure

[Ame]

Have any of you heard what the USA Olympic Eventing Team is saying about Parelli? Or the French Olympic Eventing team for that matter?

Go to: http://www.parelli.com/literature/newsletter/savvy_up.htm

and check out the latest free issue (April/May/June) of Savvy Up.

Some inspiring photos and amazing attitudes!

Obviously these guys know well enough to not fear and criticise that of which they do not fully understand :)

Have a wonderful day.

Ame

[chev]

I think the thing is to approach anything like this with an open mind, take what you feel is valid and works for you, and leave the rest. I don't see how any one technique will work for every horse; just as parents have different methods for different children according to what each child needs, so you will know what your horse responds to and the best way to work with him. I think the whole situation is becoming a bit of a circus now, each trainer trying to promote their method as the only and best - I guess it comes from the fact that they need to make a living too.

Richard Maxwell trained with Monty Roberts after leaving the household cavalry, but then claims to have developed what he learnt to form his own unique training methods. Which I think is what we should aspire to ourselves - learn what you can from each method and develop it to suit you and your horse.

[Kerry's Partner!!]

A point very well made. I agree that as a livery owner who pays for the service your yard delivers, that the yard should not introduce "training" of any sort - in the field or otherwise, unless they discuss it with you first AND you agree. In your situation it seems like robbing you of something you'd love to do yourself when you think the time is right. I guess in another's situation they might actually be "undoing" unwittingly an achievement some owners may have previously paid dearly for (in effort and/or pounds).

It makes me angry to think that in some cases livery owners aren't consulted about things like this - why?????????

[Catbaloo]

Dear lucy J
Richard is a Monty Roberts method man, but he also went on Parelli courses. I suppose like most of us, knowing that all horses have their own minds, the same thing does'nt always work. So all he has done is added to his knowledge. I agree with you about the price of the equipment, BUT there is a web site www.getknottedropehalters.com They are much cheaper and are exactly the same. I have a halter from a parelli course I did a few years ago and have bought one from Get Knotted and they are exactly the same.

[Crystal Fire]

Hiya folks - got interested in the thread. A couple of things occur to me -
If anyone has only done Level 1 Parelli then they aren't really ready for the bareback and bridless stuff. they should be at the stage where they are 1 rein riding with just the halter and 12ft line. With a good-natured horse you might be fine, but one Parelli rule is that you need Proper Prior Preparation - and this is something you don't normally attempt until you and the horse are towards the end of Level 2 at least. This takes a certain period of time...
Richard Maxwell isn't Parelli trained, and last I'd heard hadn't attended any lessons (unless anyone can tell me which PNH instructor taught him?). This was current news when last I helped with a Parelli demo - Equus this year. some of what he does has a Parelli look about it - but his approach isn't consistent with that way of doing thing. (Not a criticism, everyone to their own).
As with a lot of things, there are a lot of imposters out there, and Parelli instructors can be checked out gthrough the website, but if you let us know the name of the person coming to your yard, I'll tell you if they are qualified to teach.

[Princess]

Just wanted to add to this discussion. I found out recently that Monty Roberts has been in legal trouble about his 'techniques' and people that worked with him have said that he works by puting fear into the horse to get his results. Personally, after reading his books and indeed the documents on Monty Roberts I do not think he is a good horseman and I would never use any of his tecniques on any horse that came inyo contact with me.

I don't know that much on Richard Maxwell so I am not in the position to comment, but a friend of mine who saw him at a demostration said that he was not that impreesed by him.

Pat Parelli though I think is a amazing and his demostration over the three days at the South of England Show was fantastic. It just goes to show that if you work with your horse rather than against him, anyhing is possible. After speaking to Pat, I came away realising that with time, patience, guidance and trust anyone coul have tha kin of bond with their horse. Although I must admit, I did only think that he had a team based in Exeter, but I could be wrong.

[Lucy J]

The owners haven't told me yet who is coming out, I'll ask again. I've decided though to absorb all the info I can from whatever methods people use and carry on as I am. My youngster is very sweet and although nips and gets nappy sometimes, we have a good reltationship. On the subject of our yard owner though, she's now trying to tutor everyone in the yard 'how to do it properly' and with all due respect, she's only been to a demo and bought the starter pack. On Saturday my youngster and I got lost on a hack, (don't ask!) and ended up doing around 9 miles. We were both tired, so I turned her out in the field to relax and chill before stabling her for the night. 5 minutes later the yard owner was playing football with her with a large ball. Grrrhh, makes me mad. I like the yard and the people are nice, but Ciara needed some peace, not a game of football. I find it very difficult to say anything, but this week all the liveries bar myself and one girl who uses he yard to teach vaulting (has a tent there and everything) are leaving, saying the place is a circus and animals shouldn't be in circus's. WHile I feel this is a bit extreme I understand their point.

The yard owner is under the impression that you can do parelli all day long with one horse because its a game? Is this true? But I believe very strongly in horses getting their own space to relax and be with their friends. Problem is my horse is friendlier than their (unbroken) ponies, so she gets practised on.

I think its good my horse gets used to tents, children, flags, lots of people, but I am worried at what is being done. The nipping thing she has started she never did before moving to this yard.

I'll try and stress this point calmly, they can't afford to lose any more liveries! Meanwhile I'll stick with the Lucy method of training Ciara and try and be patient with the people at the yard!

Everyone's comments have been very helpful as usual. THank you, I'll keep you posted on the Parelli person.....

[TrotaLot]

hmmmm... the owner/trainer at my barn is almost done with level 3 parelli and does encourage her clients to use the system. She does so because she sees it as a way to ensure the horses of a better, long-term home. But then, she doesn't care which method/system is used (Monte Robert, John Lyons, Buck Brannaman, etc.) as long as the owner establishes a non-abusive, working relationship.

Someone who has barely scratched the surface of parelli, isn't really ready to transfer it to other horses. I'm through level one and working on level 2, but I hesitate on giving advice even when I'm asked.

I'm also rather possessive, so I don't want anyone messing around my horse. Especially since I firmly believe that EVERYTHING a human does or doesn't do around a horse is teaching something. If I were you I'd try to let her know I would rather she left my horse alone. You could use the parelli angle. "I know you believe Parelli is a great thing for horses, but I'm trying to strengthen my partnership with my horse and I think it's best that I'm the only one who handles his training so he doesn't get confused." But then again that is me.

[ros]

As a yard owner I do often find it very difficult to stand back and watch people doing things I wouldn't do myself, but I have to. Unless I see out and out cruelty going on I can only offer my opinion if I'm asked for it. Besides, I may be wrong!

I think your yard owner has a cheek, Lucy. She has no business inflicting her methods on someone else's horse without their express permission, however well-meaning her intentions. If she takes that attitude, you can't have any idea what she's doing when you're not there to see. I also agree that horses need time to chill out, and I'm right off "Natural Horsemanship" in its commercial form anyway at the moment.

I do think this is one you should sort out pretty quickly.

[Yvonne M]

Surely there is no right or wrong way of doing things. It is up to us to decide which method or combination of methods to use that suit our horses. It is all about having an informed choice. Personally I have seen Richard Maxwell & also Kelly Marks demos & I was impressed with both of them but I wouldn't dream of using either if I didn't like them (their methods, I mean). I do not know much a bout parelli so cannot really comment on that.

[Crystal Fire]

Show your yard manager this message - if she has just got hold of a Level 1 starter kit she is not in a any way ready to start instructing other people and their horses. To attempt is silly and could be dangerous. I help on Parelli exhibitions, and this is the advice I would give on the stand. Anyone who wants to teach others about Parelli should first get their Level 3, then get on the instructor programme.
p.s. I think it was Dave Stewart at S England Show - Pat won't be in this country until November. Was it a tall cowboy in his 30's?

[Lucy J]

I am not sure, I've given up paying attention to any of it now. I think the yard owners have realised what I think and don't subject me to it much now.

[Crystal Fire]

Lucy J - can you let us know yet who this Parelli trainer is who is coming out? You mention on another thread that they have been behaving in an unprofessional manner - so who are "they"?

[Lucy J]

Crystal Fire, as mentioned in the other thead, I will speak with the yard owner, to be honest the date she had said in july he was coming no one turned up, so I don't know what is happening. I want to get Richard Maxwell out and she is willing to go that way instead of Parelli so we can split the cost - she knows I am not a big Parelli fan.

I have to admit I don't know who 'they' are as I was not interested enough in Parelli to ask more questions, I would still be keen however to see any demonstrations that come my way so I can decide for myself.

My mission for the week is to force myself to find out more!!

[Crystal Fire]

I'll bet you anything you like "he" is not an endorsed instructor. Why? Because all of the instructors resident in the UK are women. There are some men working in the UK at the moment, top people like Dave Stewart and Neil Pye - booked out through the Savvy Centre - but they are in so much demand it's a nightmare trying to get them. They are not doing individual lessons, just group lessons, because they simply can't meet demand any other way. If you book them, believe me, they turn up (unless of course someone decides not to pay them LOL).
So - you see why I was wanting to know who had said this about Max's prices - it does no good for any system if you get people latching on who aren't actually anything to do with it, particularly if they way they conduct themselves puts people like you off. It's not that you should feel you have to do it - you should just feel that it's a reasonable organisation to deal with.
I don't think anyone can compare the cost of Max to a Parelli lesson. It's a different sort of service. Most Parelli instructors are concentrating on teaching groups, Max works mostly with individuals. I'm sure he will be a great help to you, he seems to be a nice guy when I've spoken to him.

[Mossy]

Have a look at the companyofhorses website. They are a breath of fresh air. totally agin the " problem horse industry" and brilliant. They will talk for ages to help you and should you need a visit the prices are reasonable too. Sorry if I sound like an ad but it takes a lot to impress me, I am the world's worst cynic.

[Crystal Fire]

I agree with that Mossy - they are really helpful people. Hoping to get to one of their courses.

[Kerry's Partner!!]

Well you got me interested so I typed it in, i.e. "companyofhorses" and cannot find them. What's their internet address Mossy?

[Sue Carnell]

http://www.companyofhorses.com/

They're local to us Sandra. Heather knows them, as do Jane and Dave.

Sue Carnell
sue@eclipse.co.uk

[Kerry's Partner!!]

Now what a surprise. Well I'm not surprised at all. Thanks for the address Sue - I'm off there now. How is Layla, I've been worried about her?

[Kerry's Partner!!]

Had a quick look but will need to print it all out, analyse it with my far too critical mind, then make my mind up - as you'd expect I'm sure. Will certainly not have time before I leave for Cheston again on Friday.

Sandra

[Mossy]

Presumably that is cheston at Wrangaton. Have a look at the tack shop just down the road - pricey [ imho] but good

[Kerry's Partner!!]

Thanks Mossy - I'm going back down this weekend. Will search out the Tack Shop. Didn't know there was one there so thanks again.

[Yann]

I'm very interested in all this sort of stuff and it strikes me that all these so called 'systems' are barking up the same tree, the detail and terminology might vary but it mostly boils down the same thing. What can muddy the water is when people start trying to commercialise it and dismiss other 'competitive' viewpoints.
I wonder how many people get put off by the in your face marketing of the leading brand, I certainly did, which is probably a pity.

I'll try anything that sounds reasonable and humane, whoever published the book, if it works then fine, if not I probably did it wrong:)

[cvb]

from the c.o.h.website "Between us we then spent 3 years as students and then as teachers in clinics, along with Crawford Hall at Monty Roberts Flag Is Up Farms in California."

I thought I remembered a MR link from a recent magazine thing.

Interesting that they do not say they are endorsed or anything. Comes back to the conversation about 'branding', I guess they use what they have learnt from various sources, but in their own particular way.

Means they have to work harder to get known, than if they had a 'big name' to open doors.

Cynical thought here - if you wanted a quick route to establish yourself, you could go with a particular 'name' for a while until people knew your name, then leave with lots of publicity and do your own thing - using the existing magazine and show contacts you have... Nah can't imagine anyone doing that....

[angelsmiley2]

heya everyone! i wondered in from the cosmos and read your thread, im just starting parelli with my mum, shes doing very basic stuff with our yearling( and i mean basic! lol), im doing my arab and i must say, after only a couple of times playing the games she is loving it!!! shes really intelligent and she was usually always two steps ahead of me when i rode her, but with these games shes working with me and using her brain, you can tell by looking at her that shes enjoying herself, shes bright eyed, carrying herself proudly, and eager to learn, not that she didnt enjoy being ridden or schooled before but shes thinking so much about whats going on with parelli its great! she used to get bored very easily and quickly, even doing dressage lessons which require an engaged brain and arent that repetitive, but now she loves playing the games! i do believe there are horses out there that would not benefit from parelli but more importantly i think there are people out there who arent suited to it, i know of pople who have said their horses have become dull and afraid of their owner/trainer/partner, but its not exactly confined to parelli, just look at riding school ponies, remember the ones that never listened to you that were as dull and lifeless as you could possibly imagine, i really believe that people need to evaluate whether their horse is suited to parelli because just like people their nature may not be suited to it, i know i wouldnt try it with my welsh because hes had a bad past, he isnt trusting enough and it would break all bonds we have with him and thats just not an option, some horses just arent suited to it, and its something people have to face, no matter how often they are told by parelli followers that any horse can be trained this way, but thats just a personal view of mine, seems like a rant but its not meant to, its just what i feel, as for richard maxwell, i had a half day with him on my horse and wasnt sure what to think, he told me exactly what he told the girl that had the other half of the day, even though we both ride totally differently and have different problems with our horses! he was nice enough but im not sure what to think, and as for the price of parelli, i can take as long as i want with it, do tests to make sure im progressing in the right direction, tailor it to my horses own requirements and it costs less than half of what richard maxwell charged (for my half day!)

[angelsmiley2]

OMG! sorry for giving everyone eyestrain, i had no idea that was soo long!! sorry!!!