Feeling Mega Guilty

[fairlady]

When I decided to get back into riding I tried all sorts, part loan etc. which was not really going to work for me and then decided to just go and buy myself a horse. Tried several to no avail and then visited the Forest of Dean and fell hook line and sinker for a 15.1 Bay Pure Bred Arab. (sorry to those of you who already know this story). The lady who was selling him was desperate for me to have him and I agreed to have him on a months trial because he had always lived and been ridden in the Forest with next to no traffic, completely different set up to where I live in Bristol.

He was absolutely everything I was looking for and we bonded in an unbelievably short space of time, he totally took my breath away everytime he ran to me from wherever he was calling me.

As you know I am a great 'bonder' and took my time with him first couple of weeks, rode him out in company and although he was never relaxed and we had a few 'hairy moments' I thought that was only to be expected.

However when the day came to take him out on his own it was a nightmare, stopped the traffic (and lots of it) 6 times in a short space of road. He was absolutely petrified (I wasn't too excited bout it all either). After some long thought I decided to send him back, I had nothing but admiration for this horse and how he had dealt with everything I had thrown at him in company.
It was a difficult decision but one made much easier by the fact that I knew his original owner wanted him back but could not afford to pay the asking price of the lady I had bought him from. The lady I had bought him from was aware that the original owner wanted him and when I returned him I had sort of understood that she would sell him back to Ali and he would have the wonderful life he had had before, riding in the Forest. (sorry this is so long)

However when I took him back and she had put him in the field and given me my money back she told me that she was keeping him and putting him out on loan (he had just come back from being on loan when I bought him), I was pretty gutted but reassured that he was still going to be living in the Forest.
Ali his original owner was pretty gutted as well cos she really thought she was gonna get him back:)

I have as you know since bought Morse, however I have e mailed the lady and asked her how he was getting on, she did not reply.

To my shock and horror a friend has pointed out an ad in Saturdays paper, tonight, and he is now up for sale again, 2 months on. I am devastated, absolutely gutted, If I honestly had not thought I was doing the right thing for him at 10 years old I would NEVER have sent him back EVER, and would have worked on it, I feel that I have totally failed him, he does not deserve this, to be pushed from pillar to post. I really do not know what to do, it was never ever my intention to have two horses, I don't really have the time or the money, BUT ???

[happy haffys]

Oh dear FL.

What a horrible dilemma to be in. Can't believe she's done that, so not fair on horsey at all.

BUT... Can you devote the time to him to get through his traffic issues, as well as providing me with a laugh on here (selfish aren't i :p)?

Seriously though, don't buy him back out of guilt, there will be someone out there who will love him as much as you do/did, as well as his original owner.

But if you can put the guilt aside & still feel you can afford to take on another horse financially, physically & mentally then do so. (I'll add a case of bacardi to my next order:D)

[fairlady]

HH, I really do not know what to do, I was so pig headed in stating and standing by the 'I am not going to compromise' on buying and keeping the right horse for what I needed, having been there with a few nutters in the past, and trying a few this time.:)

Looking back, he was fantastic with what I did put him thro. I put him over and under motorway bridges (busy ones) railway lines and bridges, even stood him on the bridge whilst a flammin train went under:) He had never seen any of this before. I wouldn't say he 'loved it' but I honestly think he had faith in me. The day I took him out on his own was extremely busy, first thing we met was men with ladders (which he didn't like) then the binmen in their scary truck, then 3 big lorries in a row, no wonder the poor boy freaked that was all in the space of 20 minutes, admittedley I did the same thing the next day (:)) with the same results but I would never have given up so easily if I had not thought he would end up back with Ali.

Don't get me wrong I love Morse, (Welsh Sec D) but I am an arab girl at heart, and if I am totally honest my heart is with this Arab in the Forest of Dean.

[lh-sc]

HH,

I am an arab girl at heart, and if I am totally honest my heart is with this Arab in the Forest of Dean.

He was absolutely everything I was looking for and we bonded in an unbelievably short space of time, he totally took my breath away everytime he ran to me from wherever he was calling me. [Quote]

It sounds like there is more reason than megaguilt for you to get this horse back. What if you buy him back, and take things more slowly this time with exposing him to new situations. It sounds like you now recognize were demanding too much of him too soon.

You positively love the horse, and are probably going to feel awful if you find out he got sold to some unsuitable situation.
If after giving him every chance, you still feel like he's too unreliable or whatever, maybe you could sell him to Ali, or at least you could handpick the situation he went to next (although of course we never can control where they ultimately go once they're sold.)
If you love this horse so much (and I know how Arabs can steal your heart, it's happened to me) maybe you should think about getting him back, and going from there.

[fairlady]

I have been thinking long and hard about this situation all night, until I felt quite physically sick to be honest. I have spoken with Ali once again this morning and she tells me that she has once again offered to buy him back, she says she hasn't got the money but would have found it. Bear in mind she owned him since a 1 year old and did all sorts with him before this other lady bought him as a 7 year old. The only reason Ali sold him was that her Mare had cancerous sarcoids and it was to help pay for the operation/rehabilitation.

This is the third time Ali has offered to buy him back, once when the other ladies marriage broke up, once just before I had him, and now. She has offered £200 below the asking price which is still good money for him as he will need a lot of work, as I found out, he has been at several loan homes, and whilst I have nothing against that, nothing has really been done with him for whatever reason, but Ali has been turned down each time, flat.

He would, if I am totally honest, have a much nicer life with Ali, in the Welsh hills, by the forest, no main roads, heavy traffic etc, and back to his proper Mum. But, in a way understandably so, Ali is saying she will not pay the asking price on principal because to a certain extent she feels 'her horse' has been ruined:)

I don't know what to do, realistically I am 50, working full time shift work, in what can be a very demanding job, financially I would be struggling a bit to pay for two horses to do a 'proper' job of it, time wise I would be pushed to the limit, but still there is this little voice in my head saying 'go for it':)

The other option is to put Morse up for sale, but I can't really bear to think about that either, its not his fault, he has settled in really well, yes we have a few 'issues' but he is a baby and I fully expect that:) He spent his first night in the stable last night having been wormed and was Mr Chilled when I got there this morning, so all those 10 minutes popping him in the stable well paid off.

Everyone at the yard (well all 3 of them) think I am nuts, and my friend re-iterated that she thought I had done a fantastic job with the Arab whilst I had him, not pushing him too much, riding him totally sympathetically and said she was actually very impressed with the way I had dealt with it all, which is nice, but of course the day came I had to try him on his own because the trial period was nearly up and 'the lady' would not extend it:)and yes truth of the matter lh-sc is that I would not have attempted that for at least a few more weeks had I had the time.

I cannot ring 'the lady' at the moment because I am angry and will say far more than I either intend or really have the right to say. I am half tempted to put a cheque in the post for the £200 and post it to her with a note telling her not to be so bloody selfish and let him go back where he should be with someone who genuinely loves him and to stop being a money grabbing bitch.:)

So there that is how I feel at the minute:eek:

[fairlady]

P.S. She also has him advertised as a happy hacker. Yes he is, in the Forest of Dean, where you could ride him for miles with no traffic and he is as happy as larry, however potentially very dangerous in other situations, that has really peeved me off as well.

[RustyMary]

What an awful situation- I've been wondering what you will do, I guess you are still undecided. Just wanted to send you (((hugs))) from Slovenia and to say trust yourself to make the right decision - I always find that decisions make themselves after a few days. Good luck.

[fairlady]

Thankyou:) Deep down I am doubting if I am doing the right thing by him having him back, what if I cannot bring him round, what if I have not got the knowledge to do it, what then

[RustyMary]

Of course I don't know anything about you really, but from the way you write I would certainly think you have the skills or, and this is the important bit, if you felt you didn't you would go and get advice/help from someone who did.

[NicP]

I can't believe the current owner keeps turning the original one down...

Maybe she would accept the lesser amount from you and you can then pass back to Ali? Does she have a problem with admitting "defeat" to Ali do you think?

[fairlady]

OH NicP quite honestly I am not even sure if she would let me buy him back:)

[Siogfinsceal]

please dont feel guilty. You are obviously a very caring person and you care deeply about this horse. However you gave him a fair trial and he was unsuitable - you cant compromise your health or happiness just to give a horse a home. Yes he is up for sale at the moment but who knows he could go to a fantastic home (fingers crossed!) he hasnt been mistreated or moved around too much .
I am a bit shocked at the lady refusing to sell him back to original owner that is really strange!? (has Ali offered the asking price yet though? She obv loves the horse so I doubt 200 pounds would make much difference to her?)
its also concerning that she is advertising him as a happy hacker. I wish there was something you could do in that respect as otherwise someone else could end up buying him, bonding with him and having to send him back!- or worse still have a road accident. Its so frustrating I can just hope he gets a good home!

[fairlady]

I know you are right, my 'outspoken' best friend has just rung me after I txt her about this, and how torn I was (She was the one who came out with me the first day I took him out on his own, bless her, and ended up putting him on a leadrope!!)

Anyway she has told me 'get over it' these things happen and he may go as you said to a fantastic home, but that this one was not for him. She only said to me yesterday, cos she came down to see Morse, that she could feel that the same bond was not there as had been with this Arab, however, she has just reminded me that at the end of the day I sent the Arab back for a reason, and as much as I had loved and bonded with him, the reasons were right, albeit made easier because I was thinking that he was going back to Ali.

She also said that as much as I would like to pussyfoot and gloss around the issues, she had been there that day and saw exactly what and how things had transpired, and thought I had done everything I could to keep him calm. She also said (bless her) 'you think the worst thing that could happen with him is you could die:) BUT surviving a nasty accident with him could be much much worse, for you':)

And thats why I love my outspoken friend, and miss her like hell, cos she doesn't live in Bristol anymore, she tells it like it is:)

She told me straight with my Thoroughbred, and she has come up trumps again. I would be buying him back for all the wrong reasons, yes we bonded, yes he was beautiful (I thought so anyway) yes I loved him for that, still do and probably when I think of him in the future, still will:)

I hope 'the lady' sees sense and he goes back to Ali, I doubt it, so all I can do is hope he finds a fantastic home with someone who loves him like I did, albeit for a short while, and that he can ride through a forest or woods somewhere and be happy and they admire him for his grace and beauty, as I did. Decision made.

[RustyMary]

Well done

[happy haffys]

FL,

you have had such a decision to make, & i really admire you for making it so quickly.

Lets hope he ends up somewhere brill (maybe back with Ali, so you can 'keep in touch'). It's horrible when you bond with a horse & it doesn't work out for whatever reason, & you will keep wishing you hadn't sold him back, but there is someone out there for him. Honestly!! :)

And as for that lady, well, lets hope she gets what she deserves - naff all :rolleyes:

Some people shoudn't be allowed round horses! :mad:

[fairlady]

This evening

[NicP]

A hard decision but the right one I believe.

[fairlady]

This evening I know I have made the right decision. I sent the Arab back for all the right reasons, albeit thinking he would go back to Ali.

I really am not in a position to have two horses, without adding a lot more stress to my life, let alone two horses that will need so much work, one being a youngster and one with traffic issues. I would be being totally selfish to bring the Arab back here, knowing he could not cope with the traffic levels, trying to then acclimatise him, and quite honestly at 10 not knowing if it would happen.

My first love is Arabs, however, when I met Morse, I liked him enough to buy him. Its true the immediate bond is not there, as it was with the Arab, I would be lying though my teeth if I said it was. However we are getting there. Yes, he is bolshy, nippy, pushy, but he is clever and he also makes me laugh.

Today I had to put him back out in his big field, his field mate had gone out hacking and I had initially turned him out in the small paddock whilst mucking out etc cos he was in, as were all the others, for worming last night.

I called him and he totally ignored me, he was talking to the other two horses over the fence and they were all nippy, nippy, playing and squealing.

I called him, nothing, but I knew he was watching me out of the corner of his eye, I called and kept walking, nothing, however, as soon as I disappeared through the gate and behind the hedge I heard him 'take off':) He came belting through the gate looking for me and came up all prancey dancey as if to say 'yeah here I am, what we gonna do then':)

We then spent a happy hour, playing with and chasing a stick, and me sitting on the big log whilst he grazed happily beside me, sniffing, nipping, pushing at me in between me telling him off:) Now he had quite happily left the other horses to come and find me, so I guess the bond is forming.

I bought him, like him, and owe it to him now to carry on, he is my boy:)

[happy haffys]

Aah, he wants to be ** buddy (wonder if he likes bacardi too ;))

[fairlady]

He, He it doesn't matter because believe me on the night of hearing about the Arab and the night of deciding NOT to buy him back, I drank enough for both me and Morse:)

Thankyou to all of you for helping me make this decision, it helped just to be able to ramble on:) (no change there then :eek:)

[x x Summer x x]

Hiya
Just want to say for what its worth i think you made the right decision, You made the choice to give him back for a valid reason he couldnt do what you wanted no matter how good he was elsewhere. I had many a horse like this one i most recently gave away after him spending years in the field and me never riding him , i still feel sad now but with all of them I made the right choice and who knows whats around the corner.

[fairlady]

Thankyou, few days on and I know I made the right decision. This Arab
will always hold a special place in my heart, and I would love to find out down the line that he has found the perfect home and hopefully stays there, however ultimately I know that is not with me, I certainly had the love for him, but realistically not the time, or maybe even the knowledge it would need to help him over the problems with the traffic levels he would experience here with me.

I am still living in hope of a phone call from Ali to say he is grazing happily in one of her fields, although I won't be holding my breath on that one:eek:

[blues mum]

read your post with interest, but didnt comment beause i had the same dilemma a couple of years ago, and never really resolved it, so didnt feel i could help you.
am glad you have made up your mind, and like me I am sure it is the right one.
never stops you wondering though ?

[fairlady]

ow thankyou, I know I have made the right decision both for the Arab and for me:)

However it still hurts, I really had not got over sending him back in the first place, and could go on and on again about the reasons why, not to justify it to anyone else, but to myself I think:)

Its weird I have had and dealt with quite a few horses in my time, but for some strange reason, some stick in your minds forever and a day, and he will be one of them, to me he was one of the most beautiful horses I had ever seen, and the thought that he really did 'try' to cope with everything I put at him just makes me love him even more, and quite honestly more convinced that I did the right thing for him:)

Had I been able to 'bag' more time with him it may have been a different story, however, I couldn't. However, BluesMum, should my Auntie come up on the Pools this week:)

[fairlady]

A quick update for anyone who is wondering. This beautiful Arab is still sat in a field in the Forest of Dean, and is apparently to be put 'on loan' yet again for a few months whilst 'the lady' goes walking.

She is still at this time adamant that she will not drop the price so that he can go back to Ali, and Ali is still saying she will not pay the full price to get him back, so it is a total stalemate, and one quite honestly I cannot quite get my head around. 'The lady' won't drop and Ali won't up the anti, what is that all about:confused:

[blues mum]

oh fairlady,how heart breaking.
sounds to me like two people trying to score points on one another, and neither of them really considering what the horse needs

[hoofhearted]

Totally agree Blues Mum - am I right in thinking its a difference of £200? Surely the owner could make a concession?:confused:

Personally I would much rather sell the horse for less money, knowing he was going to someone who could offer him his ideal home, than risk selling him to someone who might not be able to cope and would sell him on again. Especially as the lady who has him now doesn't seem to describing him with total honesty.

[hoofhearted]

Just a thought -couldn't they meet halfway - Ali pay £100 more and his current owner accept £100 less?
That way neither side are 'giving in' as it were and the arab can go to his ideal home?

[JustJas]

Fairlady- I really admire you... you have had to make a really tough decision. But I think you have done the right thing.

[fairlady]

Well, here I am back on same thread. Was hoping to have some news to tell you as somebody (shall remain nameless) from NR had Pm'd me for details and photos as may know someone who was interested. However have not heard anything back as yet so maybe it was not to be.

However I have taken my *** in hand tonite and e mailed the 'lady' to try and find out what is going on with the Arab and previous owner etc, if she intends to sell or keep out on loan.

Feel a bit cheeky really, cos I really do not think she thought my returning him was for him as much as anything, but will wait and see if I hear back from her.

Once again I will 'NOT' be holding my breath. But I cannot stand not knowing, just genuinely wanna know what is happening with him. I KNOW it is not really any longer my business, but cannot get him outta my head.

[redcomet]

i no u feel bad, but if he wasnt right then, he wont b any better after having been moved to more new homes and back.
if u end up spending time and money u dont have, your other horse and u will miss out on your special time together.
its heartwrenching 4 u im sure, but u cant save them all, sadly

with regards to the other lady trying to purchase him, is it the actual price thats the problem with the owner or the fact that its this lady trying to buy him do u think?

i hope the story has a happy ending whatever u decide to do x

[fairlady]

Thankyou, and quite honestly I really do not know what the problem is anymore. I was certain the previous owner was pretty desperate to have him back, but am quickly coming to the conclusion that I got that all wrong as well. I really cannot get my head around it. I bought him (with a trial period) for £2000. Now Ali (original owner) told me that she could neither afford or be willing to pay that, I won't go over all details again as already on this posting. However, price of Arab has now dropped to £1500, so where is the problem:confused: I know she would have liked to have paid around £1200 - £1300 but again all for the sake of £200.

I am usually a good judge of character and firmly believed she wanted him back. However, I am seriously beginning to doubt my judgement.

I don't know if there is more going on between these two than I originally thought or what? Genuinely cannot understand it.

Again, I know I made the right decision, I am not in the position to buy him back, my youngster needs loads of work, and again I do not have the time or the money.

Just wanna know where he is going or what is happening to him for my own peace of mind I guess, and to get rid of the guilt.:)

[fairlady]

bump

[fairlady]

Bumped this as someone was asking the story, and the 'saga' continues.

[coss]

thank you for bumping fairlady, it has been a long and very interesting read. Sounds like you made the right decision, you have morse and he is yours and you have formed a bond.
Sounds like some sort of feud between "the lady" and ali :confused: if i were desperate to get a horse back i would find the extra £200, "the lady"obviously isn't budging on price as in her mind the price has already dropped... how odd.

[fairlady]

if only it was as simple as just the price now Coss. This poor horse went out on loan yet again when I took it back, it then came back to the present owner and Ali and she were still discussing price etc, when he was advertised for sale again and went out on trial to a VERY VERY experienced horsewoman.

She had an absolute nightmare with him, he was bolshy in and out of the stable, she could not mount, and when she did he 'took off' with her. She had his back checked ok. Vet said he needed his Wolfteeth out as they were giving him problems and obviously that could be contributing to his behaviour. The 'loaner' contacted Ali and spoke at great lengths with her about all the problems she was having. The 'lady' (owner) was made aware of the problems but refused to drop the price, the loaner sent him back a few weeks ago and decided he was just too much work with his teeth, problems and the fact that she could not hack out on him. He has been advertised for sale again, talks between Ali and 'the lady' have totally broken down. Then I saw him on here with Cariadbach thinking of having him on trial. He apparently has hardly any mane or tail left and a bloodtest showed sweetitch, as far as I am aware his teeth still need sorting out, and he is a total danger on the roads.

WOW, this poor horse, this beautiful beautiful Arab, it breaks my heart:mad:

[fairlady]

I also sort of understand where Ali is coming from to be fair, she sold a perfectly sound, fit and healthy hackable horse and feels that he has been totally ruined. She has made numerous attempts to buy him back and all have been rejected. She refuses to pay an extortionate amount for a horse that has now become a potential danger to someones life, and who can blame her.

As much as I would love to see this horse settled in a good caring home and having his problems dealt with, I could not let anyone on this board have either buy him or have him on trial without knowing his problems and the full potentials of the risks that they could be taking, I could not live with myself if anything happened especially as Cariadbach had been posting about the problems she had been having with her loan mare etc. He is not a family horse, he is not for a novice either, he needs someone very very experienced in dealing with these problems.

Just as well one person in his life has a conscience.:mad:

[never again]

I hadn't read this thread before untill now. I can imagine how difficult the decision to not have him back was, but ultimately it seems you understood the huge commitments, time and danger involved- which I admire. Many would just leave on the rose tinted glasses.

It is unusual that the origional owner won't go up £200 for a horse she so desperately wants back, in my opinion.

Fairlady, I admire that you had the courage to make the decision and I really hope that the arab gets a great life in the quiet.

Gracex

[coss]

if only it was as simple as just the price now Coss. This poor horse went out on loan yet again when I took it back, it then came back to the present owner and Ali and she were still discussing price etc, when he was advertised for sale again and went out on trial to a VERY VERY experienced horsewoman.

She had an absolute nightmare with him, he was bolshy in and out of the stable, she could not mount, and when she did he 'took off' with her. She had his back checked ok. Vet said he needed his Wolfteeth out as they were giving him problems and obviously that could be contributing to his behaviour. The 'loaner' contacted Ali and spoke at great lengths with her about all the problems she was having. The 'lady' (owner) was made aware of the problems but refused to drop the price, the loaner sent him back a few weeks ago and decided he was just too much work with his teeth, problems and the fact that she could not hack out on him. He has been advertised for sale again, talks between Ali and 'the lady' have totally broken down. Then I saw him on here with Cariadbach thinking of having him on trial. He apparently has hardly any mane or tail left and a bloodtest showed sweetitch, as far as I am aware his teeth still need sorting out, and he is a total danger on the roads.

WOW, this poor horse, this beautiful beautiful Arab, it breaks my heart:mad:

I also sort of understand where Ali is coming from to be fair, she sold a perfectly sound, fit and healthy hackable horse and feels that he has been totally ruined. She has made numerous attempts to buy him back and all have been rejected. She refuses to pay an extortionate amount for a horse that has now become a potential danger to someones life, and who can blame her.

As much as I would love to see this horse settled in a good caring home and having his problems dealt with, I could not let anyone on this board have either buy him or have him on trial without knowing his problems and the full potentials of the risks that they could be taking, I could not live with myself if anything happened especially as Cariadbach had been posting about the problems she had been having with her loan mare etc. He is not a family horse, he is not for a novice either, he needs someone very very experienced in dealing with these problems.

Just as well one person in his life has a conscience.:mad:

omg :mad: i can see where ali is coming from. it really does sound like her horse has been messed up :( all the trialing and loaning will have messed his head up. It is very good that you made the decision to leave him as it sounds like he is a dangerous horse who is only getting worse. I really hope he finds a home that will keep him safe and help him work though his problems. it is also great that you have warned people so they know the full story, the current owner obviously doesn't know how to help the horse and isn't going to give him a chance by the sounds of it :mad: really hope it works out for him. Please keep me (us) updated

[fairlady]

The woman who had him on loan and found out about his wolfteeth is a very experienced horsewoman who does lots of endurance etc and really knows her horses. However this op was gonna cost about £300 - £400 and although she was willing to have the op done, obviously not at her own expense for a horse she had on trial. The '[lady' owner refused again to drop the price and even when Ali and I offered to make up the difference and repay the woman who had him on trial, she had had time to work with him a bit more by then and she was not interested as she felt 'the arab' had too many issues.

To hear 'the lady' owner talk about him you would think she loves and cares about him deeply but she obviously does not give a **** cos she just keeps dumping him off on people for a trial whilst she goes off 'walking' and does not seem to get to the route of the problem with him by either helping get him sorted or letting him go to a home that could help him at the correct amount of money to allow someone to sort his problems out, and whilst she is being, shall we say, less generous with the truth about him, that is not going to happen anyway. She seems to think he is worth xxx amount of £££'s and is burying her head in the sand about his 'issues'.