chev ... another one for you

[poisondizzy]

i've been getting very confused about these cremello's , i've been offered several lately but they seem to both have 1 or 2 grey parents , how is this possible when grey x grey should always produce grey ... some of them i have seen have been a real rich cream colour and definately look like they will never grey out ....
confused i am ..
stupid i hope i'm not LOL ....

[ambatt]

Hi Poisondizzy - I have been pestering Chev with a similar question (ish). I am looking at a colt who looks buckskin out of two grey parents. His full brother is a chestnut (and staying chestnut!).
For my colt to be buckskin he has to have at least one Cr (cream gene) to be that colour.
I got tied up in knots thinking about it.

It is possible to get a cremello from two greys if they both carry the Cr gene and are heterozygous for grey. I would imagine it would be really difficult to tell a cremello proper to a greying one, but you can send hair off for DNA analysis for the Cr gene.

You need Chev she explains it so much better!

[poisondizzy]

Hi ambatt ...

i dont think i'll ever get my head round this colour genetics ... it will continue to haunt me forever .....

the cremello's look lovely and even if i put them to a pally or cremello , i'm worried that the grey will come out in one of the foals , i know there is more of a possibilty if put to a grey that it will happen but i'm so confuzzled about it all , i will spend my life doing dna's on all creams that come my way .... LOL

at least it proved it with bob , so may be worth it in the end ...
sally

[ambatt]

All I know was taught by Chev and I can only grasp the very basics! Anything more complex and I just go cross-eyed!

Cremello cannot pass grey on, grey is dominant, so even if a horse has one copy of grey passed on by either parent it will be grey regardless. To be on the safe side I would go for a cremello out of non-grey parents. Grey cannot remain hidden like chestnut can.

The owners of the buckskin (one Cr gene and bay AA or Aa) say he is greying so I am about to put my head in the oven.

TBH paying the £16 plus kit and postage to know what colour a horse is, is a cheap way to be certain. I am waiting for the gey test which should be out this year, so I can find out if my mare has one or two grey genes. It does take all the fun out fo breeding though!

[poisondizzy]

hi ambatt ,
both my creams have one grey parent , they are both very different in colour , one has a much darker mane and tail ... and the other ones father was born pally and went grey ... it will always boggle me i think ... ...
chev , leave bob alone and help us out here .... lol
i've now been offered another cremello filly foal from two dun parents .... mmmm tempting or what ....

[Mehitabel]

grey x grey doesn't need to = grey. grey is dominant (if there is one grey gene horse is grey), so both grey parents can be heterozygous, which means they each have a 50/50 chance of passing on the non-grey gene. if they both do that, foal is not grey.

[jowyles]

If its not grey or not going grey then it doesnt carry grey!

[laceyfreckle]

grey x grey doesn't need to = grey. grey is dominant (if there is one grey gene horse is grey), so both grey parents can be heterozygous, which means they each have a 50/50 chance of passing on the non-grey gene. if they both do that, foal is not grey.

i say the same as Mehitabel. i don't kknow much about genetics but i think i learned that if both parents are hetrozygous as mehitable said eg they carry Gg instead of GG (for grey G=dominant g= recessive) then the foal would have a 50% chance of carrying the genes gg (ie is not grey but will carry the grey gene that may come out in its offspring if it is put to a stallion that carries the G gene. I think thats right?

[Mehitabel]

not quite (as far as i know, but i'm far from expert) - if they have any grey gene, they will be grey. but petal, for instance, has a grey mum and a chestnut dad - so she is GC (grey chestnut) and has an equal chance of passing on the G or the C. So if she went to a chestnut stallion (CC as chestnut is recessive) she could have a chestnut foal.

[laceyfreckle]

ok i'm confused :o no-one would have thought i did genetics at a-level lol, well it was a long time ago. by the way i'm going to put another thread up about the colour of my filly as she is confusing me lol. anyone wants to answer feel free and i hope the owner of this thread finds out about her cremello's soon.

[ambatt]

Gg is heterozygous for grey
GG is homozygous for grey
ee is homozygous chestnut
EE is homozygous black
Ee is black carrying chestnut

C is not a notation used in colour genetics. Cr is cream.

For a horse to be grey as stated, it needs only one copy of the G gene.

For a horse to be chestnut it has to have two copies of chestnut i.e. ee, if any other colour gene is passed on it will be that colour and not chestnut, as it is a recessive colour and can pass down 'hidden'.

[poisondizzy]

going into hiding now ...... :confused:

[ambatt]

No, no Poisondizzy come out, come out wherever you are...

Just because a horse has two grey parents it does not mean they have two copies of the grey gene. This would only happen if each parent had one copy of the grey gene each.

So they would be Gg..

The other bit of the genetic code for colour could be bay, black, chestnut, cream, dun etc

However, it is a bit of a lottery as you cannot reliably say if a horse has one or two copies of grey.

If a grey sire or dam produces non-grey offspring you can assume they are heterozygous for grey.

If a grey sire or dam produces nothing but grey even when put to a non-grey you can assume they are homozygous for grey (i.e TWO copies for grey GG).

Worry ye not, soon the test for grey will be available and I will be the first one to get my PRE DNA'd as I want a non-grey baby.

[poisondizzy]

thank you ambatt ..
saying it like that makes it all the clearer now ...
thank you xxx

[Mehitabel]

If a grey sire or dam produces nothing but grey even when put to a non-grey you can assume they are homozygous for grey (i.e TWO copies for grey GG).

this has to happen over a fair few foals though, before you can assume - petal has had 2 both gey to bay sires, but her sire was orange so i know she is heterozygous. i am sending bay vibes to the current bump daily!

her mum has had 6 greys and 5 bays (all to the same orange stallion except one to his orange full brother and one to his bay son) - wonder if she'll even the score again next year!