Opinions on wow saddles

[Zingy]

Has anyone got one of these? Had a sit on one last week at Burghley and quite liked it. I'm considering getting one and selling my Fhoenix, which I'm seriously not getting on with. I don't want to opt for a conventional treed saddle though as I want plenty of flexibility in the fit as pony is 4 and still growing. The marketing stuff all sounds great, but then it normally does, so can anyone offer a less biased view of the reality? ;)

[KateWooten]

I'd also love to hear about wow saddles - I am considering one for my next saddle. And Zingy, can you tell about your experiences with the Fhoenix ? I actually love mine - but I have little to compare it to as our options over here for reasonably priced english saddles, is very limited. So it would be interesting to compare.

[Zingy]

Hmm, the Fhoenix. I've heard of very few people who don't like it, so I think maybe I'm not normal (but what's new there :rolleyes:).

Plus points
- comfy seat-
- fits horse well
- love the stirrup bar placing (one of the few saddles I find with them far enough back).

Downsides for me:
- seat is very flat (I like a deeper seat)
- I find the stirrups very insecure and likely to come off the bars, even on the flat so not something I'd feel safe in out of the school, particularly on a youngster hacking up and down hills
- It is very, very wide, I think because the seat is so flat side to side. I have it on a wide pony (highland) and it hurts my hips to ride in it. I feel like one of those Thelwell kids with their legs stuck out at right angles. After 5 mins riding I want to get off, and it's the only saddle I've ever ridden in where I feel saddle sore while still riding!
- The one I have is with a suber pad, which means I feel miles above him. Far higher up than I've ever felt with any treed saddle. It's maybe not the best designed version for him - I'd maybe have been better with prolite panels, but I got the saddle originally for my high withered TBx who needed the suberpad.
- I find it very difficult to put my legs on correctly, I think because of the angle my hips are being forced into. That's not too bad at the moment as we're just working on the basics now, but I'd never manage more subtle aids.
- I think it is also to big for me. Or rather, I know it is. I had a choice of a 16" or 18" as there was no 17" when I got it, so I opted for 18" and was advised that this would be the best buy. In an 18" treed saddle I feel like I'm drowning and would always get either 17" or 17.5" with a far deeper seat than this has, so the seat would probably easily be an inch or more less than on this. Problem is I've got very long legs, so 16" saddles generally don't work well for me, but I'm only about a size 8. I could be sitting too far back because it's simply too big for me, and that may lead to the problems I'm having with the width for my hips.
- I don't find it very stable laterally either. Again it could be the suberpad/ flat-backed horse combination, but it shifts mounting from a block and I certainly wouldn't want to mount from the ground or have to trust it in any kind of serious sideways shying.

Generally for the combination of me and him it's awkward, difficult and painful for me to try to ride properly. I'd far rather ride either bareback or in a bareback pad right now as it doesn't hurt and I can do what I intend to with my legs! Bit of a bummer when I prefer that to a £1200 saddle! Having said all that, he's happy in it and on a different shaped, more pointy horse I probably would be as well, or at least be happy to put up with the issues I have with it. As he still has some filling out to do yet, he'll get wider rather than anything else and unless I learn to do the splits and develop an additional joint halfway down my thighs, I don't see me physically being able to fit that shape. It's like sitting astride a cube :eek:

I don't know of anyone else with a similar complaint about it, I certainly haven't heard of any, but I simply don't know how other people cope with it. Personally I would prefer something more human-shaped :D

[No_Angel]

zingy i have the same problem with my fhoenix, its miles above shays back.
I like it for other things, but i just feel so far away from him.
I am thinking of going back to a konklusion.
My fhoenix was bought for my tb and works brilliantly for her, but as she is now retired, I need a saddle for shay.

have you looked into the startrekk dressage?

[Zingy]

Glad it's not just me!

I've not really looked at many other treeless. The only one I've looked closely at is the freeform. I really seriously dislike treeless that have the stirrup leathers attached by a strip of webbing or whatever over the top.

The other thing is that I want both a dressage saddle and a GP. Big bonus with the Wow is that I can get both in the one saddle which saves me trying to find room to store (and clean) yet another one :o and if he's happy in it, it would presumably feel the same for him (and me, other than leg position). So I wouldn't end up with 2 saddles with 1 that only gets used very occasionally because we'd have a favourite with another one that's used when it's needed.

I like the theory behind the Wow, though I don't know how it translates in practice. Last weekend I had the chance to interogate both the Wow people and a treeless make (can't remember which it was). The people at Wow answered everything I threw at them with a positive and had scientific proof for a lot of it, and I had a lot of questions. The treeless people sidestepped a couple of bits and just simply weren't as interested. Ok, so some of that is sales talk, but we're talking about a saddle here, not something that's going to last a couple of months. Equally, there's a lot of companies who put a lot of money into sales but don't have the same level of service with anything else

[carthorse]

I love my WOW :D

I've had it for, I think, three years & I would struggle to find a single bad thing to say about it. I've had different headplates in it as Jim has matured & it still fits him beautifully - trust me, he's the sort of horse who leaves you in no doubt if something is uncomfortable! I love it to ride in, the seat is really padded, it sits me in a good position & although Jim is very wide (no 8 headplate despite having a definate wither!) the shape of the saddle means I don't feel like I'm doing the splits :p

If you can arrange to trial one then I'd definately say give it a go - you won't want to give it back!

[KateWooten]

No, I don't think you're the only one who finds it bulky. I think it works for me on joseph because he's basically built like a comfy saddle already - he's one of those, just round enough, just enough neck in front, just enough butt behind - sort of ponies that you feel confident gallolloping about bareback, and the Fhoenix seems to just sit right with him. It works on Rosie too, though, and she's much more flat-backed arab - but not wide on the barrel though - maybe that's the key difference ? I really sink into the foam of mine. It's the 17 inch, I think - they must have just started making them, and I'm more of a (UK) size 10 bottom now, and very short legs too.

Actually, looking at that list, you and I must be complete opposites in every way for saddle fit !

[Zingy]

Actually, looking at that list, you and I must be complete opposites in every way for saddle fit !

Tell me what you really hate then and I'll give it a try :D

[KateWooten]

How does it work, carthorse - do you change the headplate in it yourself, or do you have a fitter ?

[KateWooten]

Oooh - now that's a great plan. You should definitely go out and buy ...

- a 16 inch shiny black Kieffer Aachen jumping version (which I slither out of and just can't sit in at all!)

- an 18 inch synthetic wide tree western endurance saddle (aka 'the plank' )

- a nasty little brown Wintec (complete with automatic chair seat and bad back !)

[carthorse]

You can change it yourself as long as you're happy you can judge the fit. You just need to undo a few bolts, replace the old one with the new one & do it back up again. You can alter the air too, though I've always had a saddler out to do that.

[Zingy]

Oooh - now that's a great plan. You should definitely go out and buy ...

- a 16 inch shiny black Kieffer Aachen jumping version (which I slither out of and just can't sit in at all!)

- an 18 inch synthetic wide tree western endurance saddle (aka 'the plank' )

- a nasty little brown Wintec (complete with automatic chair seat and bad back !)

Tempting. So very tempting. Do you mind if I check out the Wow first :p

Carthorse, how have you found their aftersales service? I have the details for a fitter who isn't far away at all, so I should be able to arrange a trial fairly easily. Just going to wait until after his freezemarking is finished.

[Lgd]

Both of my ridden girls have WOW saddles, as does the Fell Pony I'm currently competing. All in the 'difficult to fit' category for various reasons.

I don't have any pics of Peri in hers but the pics are BJ (Fell) and Tavia (grey)working in theirs.

http://groups.msn.com/upsaddle2/lgd.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=16240

http://groups.msn.com/upsaddle2/lgd.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=16480

http://groups.msn.com/upsaddle2/lgd.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=16487

http://groups.msn.com/upsaddle2/lgd.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=17103

http://groups.msn.com/upsaddle2/lgd.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=17105

Tavia is competing mostly Advanced Medium - or was before her ligament injury :rolleyes: - she works at PSG level plus some of the GP work. I seriously doubted she was going to get past elementary before she got the saddle, within 4 months of getting it she had qualified for the Area Festival finals at medium level!

BJ is competing Elementary and Medium, he has had a huge break from competing but on only his third outing with me has qualified for regionals in elementary and medium music classes.

I can adjust mine myself for the little tweaks and plate changes. My saddler does a general check every 6 months or so. They need adjusting fairly frequently at first because the horses change shape very quickly, once stable like our lot it is mostly tweaking to adjust for seasonal shape changes and muscling as their level of work changes. Peri was ridden through most of her pregnancy - she went from a 2 to a 4 plate :eek: and has changed shape quite markedly once back after the foal and fully fit. With any other saddle it would have been a new one. With the WOW it just involved an alteration in the panels which cost £20 and a £35 refit.

[puzzles]

I love the WOW saddles! Mind you, a wintec or thorowgood can be adjusted just as well and even pressure, etc, at afraction of the price ... whatever floats your boat.

:-)

xxxxx

[KateWooten]

ummmm.... you know, for the most part I'm prepared to go along with the general UK accepted wisdom of 'everybody's equal, and everybody's opinion is equally valid whether it's informed or not' ... but for some reason, the last comment has gone straight through to my annoyance circuits.

There is no comparison whatsoever between a Wintec and a Wow saddle. To point to both of them in the same sentence just sounds silly. IMHO. Have you worked with both, puzzles ? How do you find the adjustment on the Wintec saddles ? Which type of horses did you find worked best in the Thorowgood ?

If you have experience comparing Wow saddles with Wintec and Thorowgood, then please share. I don't think you do. They're adjustable. Yes, we know that. Anything else ?

[puzzles]

That's not very fair.

Fact: Wintec, Thorowgood and WOW = adjustable, designed to disperse and ease pressure.

Fact: Each horse is an individual, of course, and so any of the above saddles may not be suitable for fit and comfort of both horse and rider.

Fact: WOW saddles cost approx. £1000-plus; Wintec and Thorowgood cost approx. £170-plus.

I don't really understand what you're getting at KateWooten - do you have experience physically comparing the three too? Do many people on this post who have put forward their suggestions? I am merely stating some of the facts, and if i didn't know them then obviously they wouldn't be on here, trying to explain how a Wintec or a Thorowgood could be just as suitable as a WOW for ever-changing youngsters, yet perhaps more cost-effective.

:-)

Here is a WOW link in case anybody wants it:

http://www.wowsaddles.com/wow/wow%20concept.htm

xx

(PS - lol, call me stupid, but what does IMHO mean?)

[KateWooten]

I don't think you're stupid at all, just uninformed. I think we can all follow links to different manufacturers' websites. The thread is asking about people's actual experience with these saddles. What are they actually like to live with, to adjust, to fit etc.

- Do you have any actual experience with Wow saddles ?
- Do you even have any experience with either the Wintec or the Thorowgood ?
- When you say you 'love' the Wow saddles .... does that mean anything, or just that you like their website and have been dreaming ?

I should have let your comment pass, I know, it's just that you keep on giving out opinions on subjects that you have little or no real experience of, other than what you've copied and pasted off websites.

IMHO = 'In My Humble Opinion"

[carthorse]

Kate I've never had any problems with after sales service, mind you I've never had any problems with my saddle either so all I've had are normal adjustments.

Puzzles the WOW really isn't comparable to a Wintec or Thorowgood. On the Wintecs you can alter the headplate, on the Thorowgood I believe you add or take away small inserts to alter the width. On the WOW you can alter the headplates (& I believe they come in a much wider range of widths) & adjust the air to keep the balance correct. The WOW also doesn't have fixed points so is very good on big moving horses who can feel blocked by a normal saddle. Also the WOW is made up for each horse & rider from a range of headplates, panels, flaps & seats so you get a custom fit - certainly not the case with Wintec & Thorowgoods!

I'm not slating Wintec or Thorowgood but to directly compare them to a WOW is quite frankly ridiculous. They cannot be adjusted to the same degree - all you can alter is the width & for a youngster that isn't always enough -and they're no where near as comfortable to ride in. I suppose they do have the advantage of not needing cleaning though :p

[puzzles]

carthorse - Thank you :-) I'm aware they can't be altered in the same degree which is why I suggested the Wintec/Thorowgood to suit the individual should the shape and dynamics of the WOW saddle not fit.
It's a shame they aren't as adjustable as WOW saddles but they have been used with many youngsters happily and comfortably when anything other than a wider/thinner fit may not be necessary, although I appreciate the fitting diversity of a WOW saddle which is one of the main reasons why I like it. :-)

KateWooten - I have experience with both Wintec and Thorowgood saddles (which, funnily enough, i love ;-) ). I don't have hands-on experience with the WOW saddles but a friend uses them on her horses successfully, following some back and saddle-fitting problems with other saddles.
PS - No, I don't particularly like the website. :-/

Is it possible to have a WOW saddle on trial?

xx

[carthorse]

Puzzles a WOW is so adjustable that it should be possible to fit one to any horse. I know of a saddler who fitted one to the most horrendous sway back I've ever seen pictures of - he had photos not only of the horse but also of the saddle & it was fascinating. Admittedly I've heard or horses not liking the Flair system but that isn't a fit issue. And your initial post said "a wintec or thorowgood can be adjusted just as well and even pressure, etc, " which isn't the case at all. Before you ask I do have some experience of all three - I own a WOW, have ridden in friends' Wintecs & Thorowgoods & have seen the extent to which they can be altered. Yes they are cheaper than the WOW but really that is all that I can say in their favour, they just aren't comparable.

I believe some saddlers will let you have a WOW on trial as opposed to just a test ride but unless you're serious about buying one (& you don't sound as though you would be) please don't waste their time.

[puzzles]

Puzzles a WOW is so adjustable that it should be possible to fit one to any horse. I know of a saddler who fitted one to the most horrendous sway back I've ever seen pictures of - he had photos not only of the horse but also of the saddle & it was fascinating. Admittedly I've heard or horses not liking the Flair system but that isn't a fit issue. And your initial post said "a wintec or thorowgood can be adjusted just as well and even pressure, etc, " which isn't the case at all. Before you ask I do have some experience of all three - I own a WOW, have ridden in friends' Wintecs & Thorowgoods & have seen the extent to which they can be altered. Yes they are cheaper than the WOW but really that is all that I can say in their favour, they just aren't comparable.

I believe some saddlers will let you have a WOW on trial as opposed to just a test ride but unless you're serious about buying one (& you don't sound as though you would be) please don't waste their time.

:rolleyes: Oh, I see what you mean - a mix-up of words on my behalf. :p Do you not like Wintecs and Thorowgoods then? Really though, as the fit is the most important factor in buying any saddle the make should come next on the priority list. I have known some people's horses to go badly in a WOW too; mostly on the rider's behalf (like feeling too distant from the horse/very high up and perched, tipping forwards...) but it depends so much on the individual horse and rider, noone can really say "this saddle fits every horse" because obviously in reality it can't and won't, so what works for some will not work for others. Zingy's youngster may well go beautifully in a Wintec, etc, or it could not fit+be comfortable, etc. My first thought was that, for the everyday horse-rider, a WOW saddle may not even be a choice. Luckily Zingy can consider buying one. :-) For those who can't, a Wintec could be a step up from a traditional saddle (though you're right in that they're not really comparable as both Wintec and WOW have different properties, at best being only similar) in aleviating pressure and helping to increase the horse's comfort. I have ridden horses transformed by a Wintec, so both saddles have their place. :-)
(PS - was the last comment for me or for Zingy?)

:-)

xx

[Zingy]

I'm not interested in Wintecs or Thorowgoods, hence they're not included in the thread. There's absolutely no comparison at all.

Puzzles, I would prefer that you did not try to pass comment on my financial situation when you cannot possibly know anything about it.

One other that did come to mind today (and I'm off to look it up now) is the saddle that Joni Bentley used to make.

Thankyou for the comments so far on the Wow, they have been very useful :)

[Palomino Mare]

i like to think that i will get a WOW one day....:rolleyes:

my friends mum had one and was plagued by problems with it. the fitter would come out and it would be perfect, her horse was more built on the one side so the air was more filled on the other side to compensate - i really like this feature. for a young horse he changed shape an awful lot and she found the saddler really hard to get a hold of but when she did eventually come out and readjust the saddle it was perfect again.
she was about to take her horse away for a weeks training and rode in the school and found the saddle was slipping terribley and got so fed up she took it to the tack shop (where the saddler did fittings sometimes) and bought a bates saddle.
the tack shop satff looked at the saddle (it was derby house and as you know they dont stock WOW's) and new immediately what the problem was - one of the airbags had burst and the saddler must of known this and was coming back out and just filling it up - think of the money in call outs in a year she made!!
a complaint has been made to WOW and i think they are being made to supply a new saddle from the last i heard.
so...i think its important to get a saddler you trust and to get the bags checked as its not the first time i've heard of this happening however i still want one of these saddles and my friends mum hasnt been put off by any of this

[Pink's lady]

I have a WOW saddle (I also have a wintec (both 500 and Wide cob saddle) and various thorowgoods. Like others have said, there is no comparsion.

Wintec could be a step up from a traditional saddle

you clearly don't know that much about saddles if you believe that. A synthetic saddle is never better than a good quality leather saddle, for various reasons. The 'adjustability' is a con and the only benfits of a synthetic over a leather saddle are the riders - cheaper and easier to keep.

I LOVE my WOW saddle and the horses love it too. With the right panels, airbags adjustment and headplate they can be made to fit any horse. There are the occasional horse who dislikes the Flair however. The airbags bursting (as per Palomino Mare's story can happen but it's rare and should be obvious. One of mine split after 4yrs and I noticed straight away.

I do know however that Casey hated her WOW saddle and got rid asap. It is a different feeling from a normal saddle and if you love your traditional normal treed saddle then you may find it odd.

I would defintitly give it a go. Why not ask the nearest fitter to come and have a look. They might even be willing to give you a trial.

[DavidH]

Personally think the Wow saddle is the best I've ever used.
Sadly i now have one that is for sale. Only had 6 months use.

[puzzles]

Ok, fine. :p I was only trying to help and its getting more common on here that people get derogatory treatment for, I admit, perhaps not understanding what they were saying as well as they could or because others don't agree. Bit of a shame really, but I won't take it personally :rolleyes:
Zingy - There is nothing wrong with a 'cheaper' make of saddle so I don't see why you take offence at me suggesting it, as obviously you can afford a WOW :) so there's nothing to worry about!
Pink Lady - It's a shame your experience of Wintec isn't as successful as some I have had but there's no need to put it down. Also, when I stated that "Wintec could be a step up from a traditional saddle" I meant modern witha broader range of properties, not better. :p Of course they're not necessarily 'better', but fair enough!

I would have preferred a polite correction/opinion than a shooting ;) End of.

xx

:D

[KateWooten]

Well, you don't really take the polite responses on board, so people tend to start talking louder.

DavidH, that's so sad. Don't be making me cry now. I'm so sorry.

[puzzles]

Well then I'm genuinely sorry. :-/

xx

[ShariN]

Depends on where you live. I really looked into the WoW saddle but there is only one dealer in the US. What I did find out you do need a saddle fitter near you to help fit the saddle to your horse.
It is not a simple saddle to fit or adjust on your own, so I was told.
I do not live near enough to the only dealer in the US.
Here,, you would have to buy the saddle and "hope" it fits properly. There is no demo's in the US.
The Wow makers in the UK are willing to help you.. many shippments of the saddle back and forth to the UK so they can adjust the saddle for you..would cost wayyyy to much.
So for me..not being able to Demo a saddle and having to buy the saddle outright and "hope" it fits..would not work for me.

I also talked to a number of Wow saddle owners..and it was split 50/50 to wither they liked the saddle or not. Some had some major problems with this model of saddle. So who ever is interested in this saddle, it would be best to do as much research and asking of questions you can.

I have own both Wintec and Thorowgood saddles in the past.
And I just ordered a special german Endurance Thorowgood saddle. Will see how things go with it when it arrives.

If I start riding more.. I would look into the higher end french made saddles like Arc de Triomphe or Luc Childeric DAC Dressage saddle

[Zingy]

Thanks ShariN. On that score, I'm lucky for once! I normally find when I see something I like the look of, that all the fitters are at the opposite end of the country. But there is a Wow fitter not far away. I can only hope they're good! Still, it should be easy enough to arrange a demo if nothing else.

One thing that the Wow people did say was that if it doesn't improve how the horse goes, then don't bother buying it. Which I thought was a perfectly sensible sentiment.

Puzzles, I apologise if you felt I was being short with you. I obviously took your comment about the saddle being too expensive for everyday horse owners in a way other than what was intended. I am not made of money, I only wish I was ;) I also didn't particularly want the thread to degenerate into a pros and cons of wintec/ thorowgood/ wow. Each undoubtably has its place but I think they are so vastly different. One of my pet hates is wading through numerous posts that have wandered off the original subject and deteriorated into an argument totally removed from the original question. Though that's likely my problem not anyone elses :D

[puzzles]

Puzzles, I apologise if you felt I was being short with you. I obviously took your comment about the saddle being too expensive for everyday horse owners in a way other than what was intended. I am not made of money, I only wish I was ;) I also didn't particularly want the thread to degenerate into a pros and cons of wintec/ thorowgood/ wow. Each undoubtably has its place but I think they are so vastly different. One of my pet hates is wading through numerous posts that have wandered off the original subject and deteriorated into an argument totally removed from the original question. Though that's likely my problem not anyone elses :D

Oh ok, don't worry :p it was getting quite petty and I hate arguing :o I see your point about going O/T when all you want is a decent answer to your question! :rolleyes:

xxxxx

[Lucie]

I've not managed to find any pricings for the wow saddles.

I know they're all different because it's a bespoke service :rolleyes:, but a rough estimate would be nice. It puts me right off a company when I can't see anything cost wise.

Have heard amazing things about them though ;).

[lizayr]

:Dwhat is a wow saddle do they fit thoroughbreds? what do they look like and how much do they cost thanks:)

[Zingy]

http://www.wowsaddles.com/index.htm

is the link.

Yes, they would fit TBs, as there's so many options for fit - they'd fit pretty much anything with the correct bits and adjustments.

Price-wise I think the competitor is around £1600 and the club is about £1000. Price is on their website.

[Lgd]

Yes they do fit TBs - my older mare is 7/8TB although she is fairly chunky because of her dressage training. There is a huge range of panels to choose from, so it is easy to get just the right one.

[sabinaqh]

I have a WOW saddle for my native. He's a chunky lad, but the breed (Merens) have a slight hollow behind the shoulder, so saddle fitting can be difficult. The WOW, because of the D panels, means I get a brilliant fit and no problems.
I sold my Fhoenix to buy the WOW. I didn't like the flat, hard seat on my Fhoenix and I wanted a saddle that I could jump in as well.

I wish I could afford a second WOW for my other native.

[Rea]

I love me WOW!!!!!

I have no idea what I did before it! My physio first recommended them and I was a bit sceptical, especially with the price of them, but I though it was worth getting the saddler to come out and let me try one on the horse.

I was adament I wasnt going to say it but I had to say 'WOW'!!!!

I always thought I had quiet a ploddy horse but I couldnt stop her she started taking massive strides and floating around the school. I always had problems with my horse as she changed shape so much over the year but the wow is ideal, she moved up and then down 1 width over the year and its just a case of changing the head plate and the air gots adjusted a couple of times a year.

If I was using a 'normal' english saddle it would mean changing my saddle a few times a year. I had been doing this and came to the conclusion I was spending more money by keep buying a few cheap saddles than it would have cost me to buy the wow.

Sadly my mare has just been put down, but I know the saddle can be adjusted to fit any horse, so I'll get it fitted to my new horse when I finally find one. The saddle is like a saddle for life for the person.

Even if you dont decide to buy a wow I think it's well worth getting a saddle with the flair system in, its so much kinder on your horses back.

It's also ideal if your horse has uneven shoulders, more air can be put in one side to the other so it keeps the saddle straight. My mare was like this at first but after a few months of using the wow her shoulders had changed shape completely and they had evened right up.