Hackamore

[coss]

you may have seen my "hackamore slips" thread and i'm still none the wiser. I have never been shown by a an experienced person how to fit one so am worried that i've fitted it wrong. On no rein contact it slips to one side (not a lot) and it means the cheekpiece goes up and very close to the eye which is uncomfortable for my horse. she is very responsive in it and i can get her to stop easily to re-adjust so its not on her eye but its frustrating that i repeatedly have to do this.
Took some pics today, have i fitted it wrong :o? I asked my dad and he said it was fine but i don't know how reliable a source he is, not sure if previous owner (who used it all the time) showed him how to fit it as i was only young when we got dawn.
Opinions:
http://file011a.bebo.com/5/large/2007/09/08/19/1359860817a5500958161l.jpghttp://file011a.bebo.com/5/large/2007/09/08/19/1359860817a5500958319l.jpg
http://file011a.bebo.com/5/large/2007/09/08/19/1359860817a5500958484l.jpghttp://file011a.bebo.com/5/large/2007/09/08/19/1359860817a5500958682l.jpg

we have always had problems with it slipping. i tried tightening it but that did seem to make it worse:confused:

[Showjumper]

It does look rather close to her eyes - have you got a bigger browband you could use? Other than that it looks ok...

[JustJas]

My arab, Jazzmyn, had similar problems in the hackamore but is a star in a libby's scrawbrigg.
She has great brakes and steering in it.

[cvb]

if you take up contact on the rein, at what angle is the hackamore shank before it comes into effect ?

The back strap looks a bit droopy to me - which mean it takes forever for the hackamore to actually come into action when you use the rein....

but if it is that droopy, it is going to slide about as well.

You might want to double check the height as well ? The nose band should not be on the squidgy part of the nose as it will restrict their breathing if it is that low...

[coss]

checked the height, its not on the squidgy bit - i knew about the breathing thing and thats the first thing i check. my mare is very sensitive and the shank doesn't have to move much before she responds.
i've marked in red approximately where i think the shank goes to. it might go passed that point sometimes but it sometimes won't reach that point for my mare to respond meaning i would think it takes effect rather quickly.
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/cosspb/random/right-profile-angle.jpg
i had a bigger browband on it and it didn't make a difference, the bigger browband also slipped down the headpiece and caused problems of its own :rolleyes:
what back strap are you looking at cvb? are you meaning the one under the chin? i can just squidge two finger in under it as its a curb chain, the attachments are leather and long - sorry if thats not what you mean :o

[cvb]

coss

yes its the one under the chin I mean. Take a look at that photo (it is even more noticeable in the second one of the first lot you posted)

On the part over the front of the nose, the strap comes straight off the metal shank. But on the back part, the strap is drooping and coming off the shank much lower. It should also be "level" and heading straight backwards.

The back strap is not like a curb - a curb is hanging off hooks. How the strap comes off the shank is going to effect the action - I suspect that as you tighten the rein, the strap is going to slide along that section rather than tightening up slightly as it should.

Hmm - could that be the difference you see in response ? where that strap is sitting vs the shank ?

Right or wrong I've always looked for a similar sort of angle for the hackamore to come into play that I would look for on a curb - not too soon and not too late. So your angle is not too bad - but the back strap *is* bugging me (sorry !).

[coss]

coss

yes its the one under the chin I mean. Take a look at that photo (it is even more noticeable in the second one of the first lot you posted)

On the part over the front of the nose, the strap comes straight off the metal shank. But on the back part, the strap is drooping and coming off the shank much lower. It should also be "level" and heading straight backwards.

The back strap is not like a curb - a curb is hanging off hooks. How the strap comes off the shank is going to effect the action - I suspect that as you tighten the rein, the strap is going to slide along that section rather than tightening up slightly as it should.

Hmm - could that be the difference you see in response ? where that strap is sitting vs the shank ?

Right or wrong I've always looked for a similar sort of angle for the hackamore to come into play that I would look for on a curb - not too soon and not too late. So your angle is not too bad - but the back strap *is* bugging me (sorry !).

its hard to explain but i'll do my best... the back strap is on the nearly tightest hole on both sides. there is a bit of leather that threads through the hackamore and buckles up, the other end of the leather is attached to what looks like a curb chain and tehn it is the same on the other side. the droopy bit of leather is just the bit to make it looser. the chain has 2 fingers off her chin if that so not loose imo...
hmmm... that said (next train of thought in brain now)
do you mean the angle that the curb chain (type thing) is wrong and should follow this line more?
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/cosspb/random/right-profile-strap.jpg
how would i do that as i thought you had to have a some slack :confused:

[cvb]

right - so you have the type that has a chain on the back part of it. That is not a curb chain by the way - it is simply part of the noseband of the hackamore.

So yes - your drawn line is more what I would expect to see - but still loose enough that it takes some rein contact before getting tight.

The chain makes the action slightly harsher than just leather - which may be why you feel you want it slacker, but then it is slipping ;(

It is probably not just going to slip side to side, but the chain at the back will probably move up and down as you use the reins as well :(

You might want to see if you can find a strap that is all leather to go across the back ?

[coss]

right - so you have the type that has a chain on the back part of it. That is not a curb chain by the way - it is simply part of the noseband of the hackamore.

So yes - your drawn line is more what I would expect to see - but still loose enough that it takes some rein contact before getting tight.

The chain makes the action slightly harsher than just leather - which may be why you feel you want it slacker, but then it is slipping ;(

It is probably not just going to slip side to side, but the chain at the back will probably move up and down as you use the reins as well :(

You might want to see if you can find a strap that is all leather to go across the back ?
the hackamore is mega old (it came with dawn and i got her at least 10 years ago and it was already well used) and it had a "curb guard" that was rubber but it was perished so i took it off.
i am only using the hackamore temporarily so i'll try making the alterations next time i go to ride and see if it helps, how slack would you have it (1 finger?) at the back? won't be using it much so hoping i won't have to buy new bits for it - i may just start riding in a headcollar rather than trying to work out what size to get her if it turned out i needed to re-vamp it. will have to see if i can tighten it too (it is very close to being at its tightest and the leather is rather worn as are the buckles :o it does up as if its always been like that:o:(

[Pink's lady]

I used to have the same problem with my hackamore on my cob. They don't seem to fit anything quite right!

Firstly I would have it just a little lower if you can. The noseband should be pretty much as low as you can get it whilst not interfering with her nose. That way the curb sits neatly in the curb groove under her chin.

Secondly I would make the front noseband as long as possible so the cheekpeices sit as far back as poss.

Finally I would make the curb strap as short as possible. It should be done up fairly tightly too (get a padded curb guard) so there is very little rotation of the shanks before pressure is applied. That however give you little leaway with severity so you need to be aware how strong a hackamore can be.

If she is responsive I would try and get an elasticated curb if possible. Or just ride in a headcollar, which is so much easier;):p

[coss]

I used to have the same problem with my hackamore on my cob. They don't seem to fit anything quite right!

Firstly I would have it just a little lower if you can. The noseband should be pretty much as low as you can get it whilst not interfering with her nose. That way the curb sits neatly in the curb groove under her chin.

Secondly I would make the front noseband as long as possible so the cheekpeices sit as far back as poss.

Finally I would make the curb strap as short as possible. It should be done up fairly tightly too (get a padded curb guard) so there is very little rotation of the shanks before pressure is applied. That however give you little leaway with severity so you need to be aware how strong a hackamore can be.

If she is responsive I would try and get an elasticated curb if possible. Or just ride in a headcollar, which is so much easier;):p

right, mental note taken :). the bit across the nose is as wide as it can go (checked, rechecked, and rechecked again) it probably could go lower so i'll have a fiddle. i'll have to see if we have a padded curb guard but how would i get it on? the one that was originally there i think came with it and i don't know how i'd thread it through :confused: .
I'm very away that a hackamore can be very strong/severe hence my next to no contact on it. Previous owner did endurance with it so dawn is used to no contact on it and is more responisve to seat and leg than when i have a bit in her mouth (when the bit goes in she doesn't listen to seat and leg as much even with no contact)
I'm pleased i'm not the only one that has had this problem, i'll try adjusting it and if it doesn't work i'll just ride in a headcollar, i'm sure she won't mind :p

thank you for the help PL and cvb