The INs and OUTs of haffy breeding please

[foxymiche1]

hi all,

i am hopefully going to breed from my haffy mare in the spring and have found a brilliant stud with a gorgeous stallion with all the right qualities.

Have a few questions...

My haffy isnt registered and the stallion is registered with the American haflinger society and not the UK society. So if i was to get a foal by this stallion will my foal be eligable for any kind of registration?
Who would register the foal? I have the mare but she is un-registered.
If its me that registers, do i have to be a member of the breed society first? If so, do i join the Uk or American one?!

Thanks

[old_woman]

Your best bet is to look at the Haflinger stud book's society's home page.

www.haflingersgb.com

I would want to know why the American-registered stallion isn't registered in the UK studbook also. It could be that he has a small % of other blood in his breeding. The UK society investigates all imports - other than those from the Tyrol - registered in foreign stud books very carefully for evidence of any other breeds (usually Arab) in their ancestry, before registering them, and will not register any that have even the tiniest portion of other breeds.

Of course that doesn't mean that the stallion concerned is a bad horse - far from it.

[Dlux]

The American registry does not allow any outcrosses either and even require DNA testing to prove parentage. Is the stallion from the US? Maybe its a new import and the steps haven't been taken yet to get him registered?

[Dlux]

BTW - is there anyway you can get the dam registered? If she is not registered I know the american registry will not allow you to register her foal. I'm not sure about the UK registry.

[old_woman]

Dlux - if you look at the link I gave, ALL the rules about ability to register in the UK society are given.

It is possible to register a part-bred (50% Haflinger blood, no more, no less) but only if the sire is registered. As he isn't ... and as we already know that the dam is not registered ...

However my concern was that should the OP ever find information that enables her to register her mare (brands, history, DNA testing etc) then if she had bred her to an imported but UK unregistered stallion, it would mean that what COULD be a registered foal will never gain that status but will always be in a limbo of sorts.

[Dlux]

Interesting that they allow a crossbred horse be registered. Our American registry does not. Wonder what the benefit is ove one over the other.

Hopefully Foxy knows why he's not registered with the UK registry and if that would be a possibility in the future. I'm also curious as to who the stallion is? I'm wondering if I know of him.

[Berry]

The UK society investigates all imports - other than those from the Tyrol - registered in foreign stud books very carefully for evidence of any other breeds (usually Arab) in their ancestry, before registering them, and will not register any that have even the tiniest portion of other breeds.

But surely all Haflingers have Arab blood in them? Can understand if crossed with other breeds but excluding Arab in the ancestry seems a bit odd to me.

[old_woman]

Interesting that they allow a crossbred horse be registered. Our American registry does not. Wonder what the benefit is ove one over the other.


Most breed societies in Europe have a separate register for part-breds, in the way that the Haflinger society does, and thus can to some extent regulate which animals are shown, competed, and sold as "part-bred X", as they decide on what degree of outcrossing is permitted for registration.

Do you not have, in the US, a part-bred or Anglo-Arab registry run by your equivalent of the Arab Horse Society?

[old_woman]

But surely all Haflingers have Arab blood in them? Can understand if crossed with other breeds but excluding Arab in the ancestry seems a bit odd to me.

Right, I didn't express this very clearly. The Haflinger was originally developed by crossing the native Tyrolean pony with Arab blood brought back from the wars with the Ottoman Empire - this would have been in the days when the Hapsburg Empire sat, some said "protecting the gates of Europe" from the "infidels".

There are hand-coloured woodcuts in the Sud Tyrol (now part of Italy) from the 1700's showing a small, sturdy chestnut horse being ridden and carrying packs along narrow mountain tracks ...

All present-day Haflingers - if they are registered with the Tyrolean studbook - MUST trace their ancestry through one of seven (I think! - can't remember exactly) specified male lines, to Folie, who was born in 1874 and was the product of a half-Arab, half-Tyrolean stallion, crossed with a refined, light type of Tyrolean mare. It is since that time - or more correctly since the formation of the Stud Book in 1920 or thereabouts, that all outcrossings have been forbidden. Not all studbooks overseas maintain these standards; in some, animals which were the product of outcrossings after one or other of these dates were openly registered, allowed to breed, and their progeny registered as pure-bred Haflingers. The UK studbook follows the Tyrolean studbook rules entirely.

So it would be truer to say "no outcrossing since the advent of studbook registration" than merely "no outcrossing".

[foxymiche1]

thanks for your help.

unfortunately i cant register my mare. i bought her from auction and was told she is registered but she came with no papers and the wrong passport. She isnt microchipped either and i have no breeding information on her.

the stallion is from america and i think its just a case of them not getting round to registering him here yet.
heres the website:

http://www.haflingers.co.uk/3.html

so should i wait untill he is registered in the UK stud book then?

[s4sugar]

Taking this stage by stage;

Why are you breeding from your mare? Seriously what do you aim to get; a new horse for yourself or a foal/youngster to sell?
In your situation I would forget using a Haflinger stud, registered or not, and look for a nice TB or Anglo Arab stallion to produce a good allrounder that won't have the permanent stigma of mum's missing paperwork.


PS I do like that stud but not for an unregistered mare.

[foxymiche1]

ok thanks for your advice. we are breeding her with the intention of keeping the foal as a future riding pony for me, i love haffys but am really gutted i cant do more with honey.

seen as the foal is for me anyway i could put her to my welsh sec d stally, but the foal would be bay wouldnt it?

[Wally]

I have yet to see a cross bred Haffy that can cut the mustard.

Tell I lie, I saw a Sufflok Punch Haff X that was acceptable. The rest have been a bit disappointing to say the least.

Looking at the website you posted, I wonder why they don't put his name or breeding up on site? ...and one does wonder at the photo at the top of the page of their quality Hafingers....didn't know they came in black.


Do a bit more research, speak to Helen Blair at the North Worcs. Equestrian Centre, she's been breeding haffs for 30 years, knwos a lot about the breed and has some very nice performance stallions that are registered with the UK society.

[foxymiche1]

thanks for that info wally, i have googled her and she has alot of gorgeous haffys there- im going to email her.