At my wits end!!!

[mogadoga]

Some may recall that i posted last year about alex having diorreah. The vet came after a month of the problem, and said it was a HIGH protein count and feed a pro biotic.
I did this, and it has not worked. All through the year his droppings have been loose. Ive used many products to no avail.

I called the vet last week and they said it was a LOW protein count, and no info on what to do. When i call i get the response *keep an eye on him * ... Argh!!!

He gets 1lb Healthy Hooves, i now give 1/2lb Dengie Compliment for its pre/pro biotics, and hay for a few hours during the day, at grass the rest of the time. Ridden 4/5 times a week. 1-2 hour hacks, and 1 30min intensive lesson a week.

What can i do?!

His poo is now like water!

[zippytys]

We have one at work like that, try Kaolin supplement, that seems to help.:)

[Jojo_82]

Pink powders are fantastic. They're a pro and pre-biotic feed balancer (or you can feed as a concentrate) and can really help with a horses metabolism/digestives. :)

How about protexin aswell? Most feed suppliers will have this in stock; you can either add a small measure of pellets to your normal feed to balance the system or they do a "bran mash" suppliment which could help. I personally like the pellets.

If you do try any of the above, i would maybe try them with a a basic feed like nuts or mix (or whatever suits your horse) with Soya oil, as this will help your horse hold onto more of the goodness in his food rather than it all flowing out the other end! :rolleyes:

Good luck! :)

[Trixie]

I would be tempted to cut his workload so that I could remove as much hard feed as possible from his diet and get him onto hay, with a reduction in his time at grass. If after 2 weeks there was no change, then I'd think again.

[mogadoga]

Ive done this through the winter Trixie when i was unable to ride, and no change, ive also done the pink powder, and the protexin suppliment.

Will see about getting some Kaolin supplement..where would i get this from?

[Gill]

As you haven't got this sorted out at all why not get a second opinion? I think I would ask another vet what they think as you are obviously worried.
It could be lots of things so not much point in treating it until you know exactly what.

[mogadoga]

My friend had a theory, maybe he is allergic to something in dengie products. Its been sinse he was on hi fi original, and now healthy hooves?

[Stella2]

It may be worth trying Biotol Equine Gold (you will find it with google). Its a pro and pre-biotic. so it will keep the gut healthy but also seems to do wonders for any stress (which I guess must contribute to gut problems). I know that there are lots of similar products around, but this seems to be very good stuff.

One of my trainers has a string of highly bred competition horses for her daughter and also owns a riding school. She feeds BEG to their own horses, but as she said, it would be too expensive to feed to all the riding school horses. However she does give it to two of them. Both had long standing problematic conditions. I can't remember what one of them was, but the other used to come out in boils whenever he was clipped. This happened for years and after one clipping session followed by boils, she put him on BEG to see if it made a difference for the following year. It did, he has never had the problem since. As for the competition horses, the ones that were stressy calmed down.

I have had Flora on it for 18 months (its one that you feed all the time) and she has never looked better in her general welbeing and never been as fit (so easily) as she has in the last year. Her coat looks amazing and I swear she is less spooky (she was always Mrs Calm with sudden bouts of drama queen, but I have seen no drama queen at all since the spring!).

Strangely, this great stuff is not expensive either! The small tub lasts a big horse a good 6 weeks and is £16! I buy the larger £30 tub and I lose track of how long they last, but it feels like ages.

I hope its some help.

[texel]

Hold the food and diet and supplements - diarrhea is a symptom not a disease.

There are many causes; from bad teeth to the wrong bacteria in the digestive tract.

The first thing to do is stop pumping your horse with this, that and the other.

Just feed hay to start with and keep the diet simple. this may take a few weeks. Get a worm count organised and work from there. If you are worried about minerals etc buy a mineral lick Rockies is good. Your horse can then decide when to lick it and for how long. This is better than pumping all and sundry into his body.

Don't expect a change in a day monitor the situation it may take a few days before you see an improvement.

Let us know how you get on

[Stella2]

But a pro and pre-biotic is the very thing that addresses incorrect bacteria balance in the gut and would simply cause no harm if the problem is the result of something else!

I agree with the keep the feed very simply approach though.

[goeslikestink]

Hold the food and diet and supplements - diarrhea is a symptom not a disease.

There are many causes; from bad teeth to the wrong bacteria in the digestive tract.

The first thing to do is stop pumping your horse with this, that and the other.

Just feed hay to start with and keep the diet simple. this may take a few weeks. Get a worm count organised and work from there. If you are worried about minerals etc buy a mineral lick Rockies is good. Your horse can then decide when to lick it and for how long. This is better than pumping all and sundry into his body.

Don't expect a change in a day monitor the situation it may take a few days before you see an improvement.

Let us know how you get on

echo this one-- up your hay as ab lib it and drop the grian quota in fact if hes got the runs then hes getting dyhydrated all the time
make sure all water in the fields is clean and changed daily offer him clean water at all times
and the horse needs fibra to stop the runs not supplements of this and that

so go back to basics - by ab libby hay only you will get the gut flowing properly once its flowing properly do a low cool mix with chaff no bran at all as this is a laxative-- and give him small meals 4 times a day as i think is gut is now smaller as hes has the runs as he would be loosing weight if hes has constance runny poohs
so small meals 4 times a day once the gut is flowing then worm him

if the horse desnt pick up and is still poohy add a yogart to his meal as its has probiotics in it once a day

if hes still not picked up then check his tempereture is high then its not apooh problem but a vet problem --

ie could be cushins or ir ressitent, or something else as viral infection
might have to have a vitimin jab so do the abover over a couple off weeks
if not picked up called the vet out again

[mogadoga]

Hi, well in my silence ive gone on a total hay diet, with a few carrots in a bucket to think he is getting fed.
He is not dehydrated, the pinch test is fine and he drinks no more water than usual. I have one of those rockies and he licks it sometimes.
No worms, all counted for and came back fine, although i did worm just in case tbh.
The vets have said what i mentioned in my first post. His teeth are fine, one is slightly twisted but has been like that sinse i got him and doesnt effect his chewing.
Hes lost no weight, and is perfectly fine, laid back as always but willing to please.

I am considering a second opinion, i wont go into it but my vets have proved to be a waste of time, not just with me but with others, they now have such a huge custom base that they seem to be to cocky in what they say, everything needs xrays and this and that etc, and people all paying money for nothing. Sorry bout the rant!!

[goeslikestink]

rant away it helps-- when you cant hit things or solve things the way you want to-- glad to hear hay only that will help
i am thinking as i have rescued loads of horses in my life time

is his tempreture ok do you know what that should be or do you need help with it
you can buy a themonetor in a chemist-- and stick it up his asre
a human one will do --and you should always have one in your meddy kit anyways

[chunky monkey]

I don't think they make kaolin and morphene now, due to the things that were in it, but it use to be good stuff. Cant say for horses but the vet gave me kaogel (not sure if its spelt right) which is for dogs but when my sheep are bad I give it to them. It smells like a cross between strawberry and chocolate milkshake. So nice I am almost tempted to try it myself I must say. But I am not convinced this would be the answer.

The other thing I tried when the sheep had cocidious and it was taking months to clear up there diorehea was a charcoal solution. Mixed the charcoal powder with water and fed in a bottle. Wheres this leading you might ask.
The vet said that charcoal helps to line the stomach but still allows the stomach to breath in order to repair the stomach tissue lining. So maybe you should perhaps question with the vet if the constant diorehea could have caused the stomach lining to be damaged. Don't know whether charcoal could be fed to horses. I would ask your vet to check for coxidiousis.

[wonkeywoody]

Echo Texel.
My boy has a real sensitive digestive tract - a small handful of any grain/day gave him bloat, he got VERY grumpy and had the runs. He also developed what looked like protein lumps.
Recently we tried adding alfa beet - same reaction.
He is fed on 150g/day top spec leisure time, salt, plain oat chaff, and his small 8g dose of magox. He is out at grass but now he is getting a small net of hay at night. Thankfully things have settled.
Would have a close look at your horses' enviroment and see if there is anything he is emotionally 'unsettled' about too.

[Jessey]

Our old boy got terrible runs a few winters ago, the first winter I was having to wash his legs daily to stop them getting sore :( nothing seemed to help, he was old and the vets thought it was probably due to worm damage to the gut earlier in his life and poor old boy teeth.
We tried loads of things but in the end we found that increasing his fibre intake and adding Biotal Equine Gold to his diet really helped, he went from chronic runs to reasonably normal poo :D feed wise we swapped from mixes etc to feeding him grass nuts, unmollassed chaff and Simple Systems Luci-Bix with barley to help him hold weight - he couldn't manage to eat much hay dur to his teeth and we kept him at grass 24/7 aswell.

J x

[showjumper-zoe]

Aw poor Alex, I hope he gets better soon, other causes of diarrhoea include worms, nutritional changes, bacterial and viral infections, some types of medical therapy, inflammatory disease of the bowel and bowel tumours not trying to scare you just make sure you're vet checks these things out, ask him for a faecal test, blood tests, intestinal absorption tests or a gut biopsey just so you can rule things out, like you said a bland diet will help but cut out lush grass, short feeds and carrots. The vet may give a medication that slows down gut mobility that may be helpfull but some cases of diarrhoea can be very hard to settle down long term. Try not to worry :) i'm sure he'll be fine and it's be something simple

xxx

[carthorse]

My YO has a gelding that periodically gets very loose droppings - virtually coloured smelly water in fact. The vets checked him & ran some tests, he was up to date on worming & his diet was changed to lots of hay & limited grass, various supplements were tried but nothing worked. He started losing weight & looking very miserable, YO was wondering if it was PTS time. The vets decided to try a course of codeine tablets & they worked wonders! He still has the occassional flare up but usually taking him off grass & giving him lots of hay works, I think she's only needed the tablets one other time.

[mogadoga]

Update- he is worse again, like water.
Im getting a different vets out, not using ******* again. :mad: waste of time and money and with no help even hinting in what theyve done...or not done.

Im waiting for a vet at intake to call back they are coming to my yard today. Hopefully they will do something of use.

He didnt drink much last night and he normally gets through his bucket, so this has worried me slightly, but all of his hay was eaten practically, so maybe he just wasnt thirsty.

Fingers crossed for a result!

[Zingy]

A friend of mine had a horse with a similar problem. Vets couldn't do anything as they simply didn't know what was wrong. Thet did bacterial counts that at first showed some awful results - too many unwanted bacteria and too little wanted (like 100's or even 1000's of times wrong). He was fed probiotics, different feeds etc - things would work for a few days then would go back to square 1. At 1 stage there was even talk of him being put down :eek:

Off the top of my head, she tried:
- psyllium - worked for a while and was useful for cleaning the gut out properly (which can be a problem and can cause diarrhoea)
- dry bran - he was on this for ages, had a handful in his feed. Definitely worked, but made him drink loads
- probiotics - did work on and off, but she had to find the right one, as they are all slightly different. One that worked for 1 tub wouldn't necessarily work on a second tub - result was it cost her a fortune. The bacterial counts did improve, but they were no miracle cure
- Simple Systems feeds - definitely helped as there was nothing in there for him to react to (sugars/ additives etc)
- ad lib hay - he had to have ad lib hay when he was in. If he was ever without feed for more than half an hour, his digestive system would start to shut down, so if he was in overnight he had to have hay left in the morning
- plenty of turnout - think part of it was caused by stress of being in (though he never looked or acted stressed). However, being out caused its own problems as there had to be plently of grazing so his digestive system was continually being given good food. If the grazing was poor and he had to forage for feed, it would completely knock him back, so he had to be turned out with hay :rolleyes: Too much good grass on the other hand gave him laminitis :rolleyes: It was a difficult balance!

It went on for a very long time and there was a lot of tail washing, mild colic symptoms and tears involved. But he did improve. She did find someone else with a similar problem. The horse was certainly the same breed and may have been related (not sure). That horse also improved on the basic ad lib diet with lots of turnout, which was why she tried it and stuck with it. There were lots of setbacks at the start - I think that if their digestive system is in a bad state, it will only take something small to trigger it. For example, for a long time he couldn't go out if it had been raining as he couldn't digest wet grass, only dry grass. Over time though, he became much more resilient to things. The vets were always worse than useless with it though as they just didn't know what to do.

Good luck :)

[chunky monkey]

Its probably a case of trying to line the damaged parts of the digestive tract in order to allow them enough time to heal.

It was so awful seeing the goats with coxey and not being able to make them better. We practically had to starve the kids and just feed hay and water+medicine to get them right. We couldn't give any milk to them and no solid food. Not giving milk to a young kid when its the milk it needs the most at a young age did set them back drastically but two years down the line they were fine and you would know about the poor start in life that they had.

Good luck, I hope you can get him right soon. It is always worth a second opinion if you are not getting anywhere. But it doesn't necessarily mean that your vet is completely useless.

I had a vet once that made a terrible mistake on one of my animals. Hence I had to have the animal put down. He knew he had made a mistake and I think he was reluctant to touch another of mine, but when I had no choice but to use him for another sick animal he was absolutely wonderful. So don't always right them off unless you have continous problems.

[mogadoga]

I and others have had continous problems chunkey monkey.

I got a diff vet today. He was brilliant, explained everything...... turns out in the notes he got off the other practice, they suspected old worm damage....theyve not told me or helped me find out or anything... tossers. *ahem*

The vet i got believes this, long story short....he gave me a pro biotic to keep his bacteria etc correct, as if it is this damage then the reason his protein levels are rising and falling is because some things are absorbed into the gut wall at times, and at other times nothing is.

So more blood tests to see, and alot of info given.

I feel like a weight has lifted and i know this is someone who gives a dam about what he does, unlike the others who just always ask for money.

Sorry if that was confusing!

[mogadoga]

Last update for those who are interested. Blood tests came back, theres alot of things it is not. He believes it is the worm damage, or could be something or another bowl disease. But with the pro biotic he gave me, plus a certain wormer alex's poo is solid. So we are going with the burden. Although i do know it will still turn tp slop at times.

Ive tried to get the YO to sort his 'worming programme' nd used to worm behind his back on my own programme, but thought...well every1 elses horses are ok why cant mine be, and for 2 years went along with his 'worming programme' (random worming and counts) and the damage has been done. In a way i blame the YO because hes an arrogant twat at times, but i should of stuck to my gut instinct and done it myself.
*sigh*

Ahh well, least i have some good news now!