Is this a back problem?

[LindaAd]

My daughter's mare has been showing occasional unpredictable behaviour - refusing to work, rearing, bucking. She has always had a tendency to rear if stressed - if she's asked to do a dressage movement that she doesn't understand, or if she sees something scary like donkey, or if she was refusing to lead (but that hasn't happened for years). But lately she has been doing it for no reason that we can see - not very often, just occasionally. I'd put it down to stress - she'd been out on loan, that hadn't worked our, she came back, moved fields, and had a couple of strange riders...But the other day she put up a fight when my daughter was just leading her across the field, away from her friends.

On the other hand, when my daughter's instructor rode her, a couple of weeks ago, she reared once (the instructor is a very determined rider), then worked beautifully; she came to Exmoor last weekend and behaved perfectly, loading, hacking all day, dealing with all sorts of scary things, no problem; and my daughter has hacked her out twice since then, and jumped her over little jumps at home, no problems.

But we asked the vet to look at her, partly because she hadn't had her teeth done for over 6 months, partly to see if there was some physical reason for her behaviour. The vet was not the usual vet, but a new one; she didn't finish doing the teeth because the mare objected (quite politely, just walked backwards), and said she hadn't got time but would come again when the horse was in a stable; prodded her back with the handle of a syringe - Ginny responded by putting her ears back, humping her back and kicking. I suggested she try the syringe handle on another part of the horse, so she tried the neck, and the response was the same, but milder. So she said the horse had a back problem and prescribed bute and two weeks rest.

I'm not convinced that it is a back problem - for all the reasons I've described, and because she never objects to being tacked up. Her seasons seem normal, and she isn't usually aggressive with other horses, although she has shown both aggression and flirtatiousness towards the young gelding in the field opposite. Her field mates are another mare, and a gelding - they get on fine.

Has anyone any suggestions? I'll discuss it with the vet again on Monday - the usual one is away on holiday. Does is sound like a back problem, or something else physical, or could it just be nappiness?

[Mehitabel]

i'd imagine that if it was a back problem then the bad behaviour would be more regular. can you think of anything common about the circumstances when ginny misbehaves? like bending in one direction, asking for more flexion than usual, more hindleg engagement than usual? it could be that there's a problem that only hurts when she does a certain thing.

another thing you can do is have a look at her back yourself. just use your fingers, and work over her back, just stroking at first, then pressing a bit harder. look for areas of heat, anywhere she flinches from, or anywhere that seems swollen compared to the other side. also look for uneven muscle anywhere, like hollows behind her withers, dents where the back of the saddle goes, or one side of her rump being bigger than the other. then at least you might have something more concrete to tell the vet. it helps to have someone watchign for responses, rather than tryign to feel the back and watch for reaction - it can be as subtle as a change in expression or an intake of breath.

[maverick927]

I don't agree with what the vet did as I think that all ponies would have pulled away from the syringe. I would to if I didn't know what was happening. And just think about it being less severe on her neck, where there are bigger fatty deposits and less bone. I prefare needles going into my arm, but imagine it on your spine, ouch!! My pony has a bit of a sore back due to a pressure porblem that he has and now his saddle pinches due to CAIR (back muscles increase in size so quickly), but he has never had the responces that your pony had. He just won't work, but also when I put his saddle on and do the girth he tends to kick his back foot off as if to say ouch. i thnk that you should get a second opinion.

P.S I think your pony misbehaves due to stress.

[ros]

Doesn't exactly sound like a considered diagnosis! I think the two weeks' rest probably wouldn't hurt, but I don't think I'd be keen on giving bute without good reason. Besides, if the mare does have a problem, bute probably isn't going to solve it - you need to find the cause.

It could well just be insecurity by the sound of it. If you make sure she is handled and treated with absolute consistency, and stick to rides/routines whatever that she's familiar, things will probably right themselves. But I think you might try and get your normal vet's opinion as well, just to be on the safe side, and like Es says, see if you can find any pattern or common factor in her behaviour.

[LindaAd]

Thanks for your replies, people - you've confirmed my own feelings.

Maverick, it wasn't the needle end of the syringe (!) - just the handle, basically a round piece of plastic.

I talked to the vet today, and she agreed that another one from the practice, a horse specialist, will come out and have another look on Friday - the usual vet, who's brilliant, is away on holiday. So we're phasing out the bute, although not riding her.

I'll let you know what happens.

[Lucy J]

please let me know how you get on, it sounds very similar to the problems I am having with my mare. Ciara is due to have her back checked again by a chiropractor tomorrow, but I do not think this is her problem.

I think she just has a lack of respect for me. However like you its intermittent. Keep me posted.

[ros]

If you look on the Enlightened Equitation section there's a thread "Help Heather My Horse Is Tense". I'm not suggesting it's exactly the same problem Linda has, because the behaviour problems seem to be consistent rather than intermittent. I mention it because the family in question did have their saddle checked, but it wasn't until the panels were dropped out that any problem came to light. It may have looked fine from the outside, so unless you have a suspicious nature you probably wouldn't think to look further:) It may still not be the root of the problem, but I'll be very interested to find out if the horse improves when the saddle is fixed.

[LindaAd]

Well, the second vet found tenseness in her back, prescribed light work, no Bute and a physiotherapist ..

Physiotherapist came: she said pelvis was slightly out - and put it right quite dramatically, by holding up one hind foot and giving the horse a push so that she had to jump with both hind legs to avoid falling over. Then she worked all down the spine ... recommended riding stretching and suppling exercises, carrot stretches - and a visit from the saddler ...

So yes, it was a back problem and a saddle problem - saddle pressing down in front, apparently. But we've changed her air-filled numnah for a plain one, and that seems more comfortable - and she's been much more relaxed and free moving to ride. No sign of stroppiness either... so far.

I'm so pleased - I'd been expecting some sort of permanent unsoundness and forced retirement; she's not a young horse.

[FreedomStar]

oh coo, that's great that you found out what the problem was so quickly. Your daughters mare is very lucky to have such a great owner.

[ros]

Great! That's the first part of the solution - finding the cause; now all you have to do is stop it recurring.

If the saddle was the cause you need to either take it to a very good saddler & find out if it can be sorted, or get a new one that's properly balanced. Otherwise - as I'm sure the physio explained - the same muscles will just contract again and you're back to square one. But you've probably got it in hand already.

And once again, it goes to show that horses aren't usually difficult for no good reason. Keep up the good work!

[Mehitabel]

that's great news, glad it worked out!

[LindaAd]

Yes, it seems as if there were two different things going on - the misaligned pelvis and the saddle problem, which might or might not have been related - and then the stroppy behavious which might not have been connected with either (we'll see ...). Aren't we lucky to have all these knowledgeable, helpful people at the end of a telephone!

[KarlR]

Good to hear that it is sorted. That first vet sounded worthless. I would expect a 20 minute examination of the back, and a possible ultrasound for suspected bad back...not a prod with a syringe end!

My opinion would have been the saddle causing back pain (because that's what caused my horse to buck!) so I'm glad to hear that I was right (although of course that's easy in retrospect! ;))