Navicular

[civey]

I have a five year old mare, who started training for reining a year ago, and went lame shortly after. One vet said it was a pulled muscle, and to let it heal. After 6 weeks of no improvement, I got a second opinion and was told there was a 2 degree rotation of the coffin bone - early navicular. Mare took Navicon for 6 weeks, and got corrective shoes put on. Seven weeks later, still no improvement, so took her back to the second vet for shock wave treatment. Three weeks later, still no improvement. Help. This is only my second horse (first was a witch but I loved her and learned a heap), and she is so sweet, so willing and niceminded, and I can't do much with her due to the lameness. She is okay at the walk and the lope, but you can tell she is sore at the lope as she breaks gait and fights the right lead, which she never did before she went lame. At a trot, she is really off. Any help please???

Carol I.

[Sue Carnell]

Were her feet x-rayed? If there is rotation of the coffin bone, it's usually a symptom (result) of laminitis, not navicular syndrome and usually only confirmed with x-rays, particularly at that small a degree. Apart from her lameness are there any other symptoms? Heat, swelling, increased digital pulse, stumbling, change in hoof shape? Where is she lame, hind, fore, two, three, four legs? Are your vets equine vets? Is your horse a small hooved quarter horse? According to people I've spoken to, it's possible that navicular syndrome is over diagnosed, particularly in quarter horses, by some vets, regardless of symptoms. Why did you not go back to your original vet when there was no improvement after the initial 6 weeks? If she really does have navicular syndrome, it might be worth your doing a search on the Internet for information on the various management programmes.

If your horse is still lame after 16 weeks, with no obvious reason for it though, it probably needs much further investigation to try to find out why. X-rays, scans, nerve blocks, there are a number of diagnostic tools that vets can use. Are you anywhere near a vet hospital and if so, is she insured?

Sorry not to be of much help, but five is very young and I hope she comes right soon.

Sue Carnell
sue@eclipse.co.uk

[Dizzy]

I completely agree with Sue's advise, and am also curious why you sought a second opinion without consulting your original vet first.

I see by your post that she went lame after reining training as a 4 yr old. Do you know all of her past, at what age she was broken, when she was first shod, any old injuries or accidents, what type of work she's done etc. This info could be very important, by that I mean to the vet treating your mare. With prolonged lameness, its professional, on site advise you need.

Hope you find the answer soon,

Lesley

[civey]

Thanks Sue and Leslie for your comments. The mare was broke at 2 and ridden lightly as a trail horse for about a year and then turned out to pasture for about 8 months due to owner health. She was sound when I got her, and stayed sound for the next 6 months - she went "off" 2 months into the reining training. These horses are also stallbound, which may have contributed to the problem.
Now she is home, she gets turnout 12 - 18 hours a day.
She has no heat, no swelling, no increased pulse rate, no tenderness when touching the leg, and no sensitivity to the hoof testers. However, she is very touchy about walking on stony ground, where other horses do not have a problem.
My first vet xrayed her after a mild episode of laminitis, which could account for the rotation of the coffin bone, and was wishy washy and indecisive about the diagnosis of her lameness, with no plans for further investigation. The second vet specialises in racehorses and has more sophisticated equipment in his clinic, so I thought a second opinion would be useful. He also did xrays.
My concern is that if it is navicular, why is it only showing on one side (front left)?
I have corrective shoeing on her (full shoes with heel wedge) - she also keeps losing the shoe, and I use an Easyboot or wrap her foot to protect it while waiting for the farrier to fit me in (you know the story!).
She is a big mare - as in solid build - with average size hooves (I don't think they are overly small for her size). Due to the corrective trimming (lower heels), there is not much angle to the front of the hoof, and she looks slightly pigeon-toed, which my trainer said was there from the beginning. A trainer who boards in my barn thought the mare 'toed-in' when walking, and that I should try a different farrier, but as I say, my reining trainer thought the mare was slightly pigeon toed to start with (I did not think she was).
While in reining training, a different farrier was used, and he used bar shoes, and she was sound for a few months, so I wondered about having my farrier try that.
I was also advised on the weekend to try her on bute (4 days on, 3 days off), to see if that made a difference, to help isolate whether it was a soft tissue problem. What do you think of that?
Thanks for all your help, and sorry this is so long.

[copper76]

Hi,I have a horse who was diagnoised with suspected navicular 2 yrs ago,I had to reduce his work and bring him bcak very slowley,dropping back every time he went lame,HE was on navilox for 12 weeks and bute for 4 weeks.He also was put into eggbar shoes for 4 shoeings and was shod at 4 week intervals,he is now in natural balance shoes.He has worn magnetic overreach boots every day for a year.He also had shockwave treatment 3 times.When he is stabled he wear stable bandages to improve the circulation.He was fed on msm for a while too.He is sound and is allowed to start jumping soon inc cross country as long as the going is good.
The most important thing is time and patience.IF you have any more questions just ask!!

[Sue Carnell]

Hi Carol,

We shouldn't really try to diagnose lameness over the 'net that's for sure, but.. :)

She's a hefty mare who is pigeon toed and had laminitis. Lame with no obvious signs as to why.

Does she have a wedge on just the one foot, or did you mean she is shod balanced all round, but keeps losing the one on the lame foot?

If the pigeon toes is down to shoeing, if you pick up her leg at the knee and let the lower leg dangle, it should hang straight with the hoof veering off where the trim isn't right. If it's down to conformation, the pastern should look offset and the toeing in appear to start earlier than the hoof, the whole hoof hanging crooked. If this makes sense?

She could have strained her shoulder? Check for uneveness in her shoulder muscle and sensitivity. Try picking her fore-feet up and bringing her leg forward and then back, tucking the heel under her elbow, gently. See whether she's happy for you to move both legs. I would presume that your vet has already done it and lameness isn't always easy to diagnose sadly.

If she is sound with a different farrier and bar shoes, could be that the other farrier shod her straighter, and the bar shoes helped the laminitis. Personally, I'd start with a different farrier. Did the vet mention her toeing in?

Sue
sue@eclipse.co.uk

[civey]

Sue, the wedges are on both front feet, no shoes on the back. I will try the leg tests you mention. If the mare is pigeon toed, it is very slight as my riding coach found her for me, and thought she was fine. It seems to be more noticeable now, with the angle of her hooves the way it is. She is not a fat overweight mare, but she is well built and 15.2 hands.
I agree we should not diagnose over the web, but after two contradictory diagnoses from two different professionals, and no improvement with either, I am exploring all possibilities.

[civey]

So I checked my mare's legs as per Sue's suggestions, and the trainer who boards in my barn offered her input too. The mare is NOT pigeon-toed. Her legs are straight, but when I let the lower leg drop from the knee, what you see is that the left hoof is angled inward, pulling her pastern in too. Her hoof also shows more wear on the inside, toward the toe. The trainer asked me to take her out and lope her so she could watch. Since the mare is relaxed and sound on the left lead, this gal said the mare is SOUND, regardless of the fact that she fights the right lead and is off at the trot. She feels strongly that the problem is in the hoof trimming and doubts there is navicular (only off on the one side and bute makes no difference at all). I have a call in to a new farrier, and will see what that does.
Appreciate everyone's advice, as I am a fairly new rider (four years next month) but trying to learn as much as I can, and this mare is really special, so it is breaking my heart to see this happening to her.
Thanks again.:)