A 'bit' of advice please

[alyrosie]

A friend and i recently bought an ex racehorse together, he is her second horse and my first so i am learning as i go. Our new boy is very placid and appears to respond well to the bit whilst in walk. He turns with you barely moving your hands and stops whenever you ask him. The problem is when he goes into trot he is really difficult to stop and generally trots until he reaches the end of the menage. As soon as we shorten the reins or pull on them at all he seems to want to go faster and you can have a bit of a fight on your hands. we now use a running martingale and this seems to help a little but we dont feel as though we are in control of stopping or slowing when we want. We realise there is probably a schooling issue and we need to work on him lots but also wondered if a different type of bit might help with the brakes! he is currently in a snaffle, i dont know the proper name but it is kind of hinged if that makes any sense?? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Please excuse my ignorance!!!!!

[Bobbin]

You bought an ex racehorse and you don't even know what the bit with the hinge in the middle is called. Oh my gosh.

Find yourself a very good instructor and fast, the horse needs re-training, not a stronger bit in his mouth, you aren't dealing with your average riding horse, this animal has been bred and broken to race.

Good luck

[JOJOBA]

Is he straight off the track?
Racehorses are often trained that rein contact means go and dropping the reins means stop, which might explain why he goes faster the more rein contact you take!
You need to really look into the kind of training he's likely to have had so far - racehorses are trained very differently to riding horses and probably wont respond to the same aids.
I dont think a stronger bit is the answer. Also unless your horse is really raising his head - ie, above the point of control - a running martingale is not going to make too much difference either. Running martingales work by stopping the horse raising it's head so far that the rider loses control of it.

If he's straight off the track you need someone experienced with retraining racehorses to help you - at the very least Id get on the phone to the racehorse rehabilitation centre (I'll try and find you the number).

xxx

[JOJOBA]

Try contacting http://www.thoroughbredrehabilitationcentre.co.uk/ or http://www.ror.org.uk/default.asp for advice.

An OTTB is an ambitious first horse, you will have to brush up on your horse knowledge and do lots of research on retraining him :)

xxx

[alyrosie]

cheers guys, we already got a RI sorted. He hasnt been raced for over a year and has been used since racing as a riding horse. Our aim is to reschool but i was just checking there wasnt anything else i should be doing.

[JOJOBA]

Right so the beginnings of his reschooling have started.

In that case, have you had his back, saddle and teeth checked? Running forwards and pulling on the bit can be signs of discomfort in those areas.

If your aim is to reschool then a stronger bit is definitely not the way to go. However he may dislike the bit he has now, either because it doesnt suit him or because his teeth are sore.

Which of these is he in?

http://www.horsetackinternational.com/images/260024-eggbutt.jpghttp://eastmidlands-equestrian.co.uk/shop/catalog/images/FLBradoon.jpghttp://www.horsetackinternational.com/images/245450--icelandic-snaffle-b.jpghttp://www.thetackroomeu.com/images/Tack/bits/Toklat%2015205.jpg

xxx

[alyrosie]

jojoba you are a star, thankyou for your help and not makin me feel a fool!

The last bit is the one he has.
He has been vet checked and no probs cropped up so hopefully it is just a case of mucho reschooling needed which is fine by me. Have heard of book which is suppose to be good about reschooling racehorses so gonna get that.

[JOJOBA]

He's just in a standard eggbutt snaffle then - that's the basic bit. If it has another link in it like the first two it's a French Link, and if the rings arent fixed like in the middle two, it's a loose ring.
If he leans it might be worth trying a loose ring as they give the horse less to lean on.

Lots of TBs have really sensitive little mouths, so the only other thing to consider is the thickness of the bit - the thinner it is, the more severe it is. I know a few TBs who prefer chunky bits, odd though that seems, because they are much gentler.

Saddle fit is REALLY important too, did his saddle come with him or did you have it fitted after buying him?

xxx

[alyrosie]

we bought the saddle to fit him. Typically to TB's he has high withers so we made sure we got one that allowed clearance and doesnt put any pressure on.

[JOJOBA]

Okay, it might be worth having someone out to check it - I wouldnt fit my own saddles even after rambling on about saddle fit on here for years ;). Then again I also dont trust saddlers very much, but it's always best to have it checked.
As well as having the right wither clearance the saddle needs to be the correct width, the correct shape, and correctly balanced for the horse. Also if you are planning to school him up he is going to put on weight so the saddle may need to be altered or bought a little wide and padded out until he fills out.
If he's rushing and hollowing out my first thought would be a saddle or back problem (vets dont check backs in the vetting), then once that's been checked you can put it down to a schooling issue.

Any pictures to share with us?
:)

xxx

[alyrosie]

at work at the mo, but when i get home will post some. Thanks again for all your advice xxx

[fitz]

I think the best thing for you to do would be to put the horse on schooling livery for a while, and get an experienced person to school him as well as lessons for yourself and your friend. (eta I meant on Oscar)

You're talking about damage limitation here. I cant stress how badly wrong this could go if you dont get some experienced help.

A book on reschooling racehorses really wont be enough in this case.

So what do you think... can you do what I'm advising? (even for 2 or 3 weeks)
It would really give you a better idea of what you need to do, and you'd have help on the handling aspect as well.

Btw, I'm speaking from experience here.... Goodness I've some prize photographs from when I got my first pony....

[spamchops]

I think that some positive advice on what you yourselves can do is needed here also. Simply being told that you have taken on a lot and run and get help is a bit disheartening! You can still school this horse in between having lessons or having someone else ride it, after all it is your horse now.
Try just doing some schooling work in walk only, use the school properly and do plenty of school movements, circles of varying size, serpentines and changes of rein. All of these will make the horse work harder than walking large and make it harder to rush with you. Remember, your voice is a powerful tool, see if you can teach him to respond to vocal commands, they pick it up suprising quickly, use a soft drawn out whoa and use as little rein as you can. Lots of praise! If steering is good, always use it to help you slow down, spiralling a circle in will usually take the impulsion out of a forward going horse. Transitions from walk to halt to walk are good, this gets the brakes working safely, use with vocal commands to help the horse "get it" Or try some groundwork, even if you can't lunge, lead. Go over poles, weave round wings, do short walk trot transitions (use that voice again) etc but be disciplined about it so that the horse respects your wishes. A properly fitted running martingale will do no harm, plus you have the neckstrap to grab for!And yes, I have ridden plenty of thoroughbreds, racers in training included! Good luck.

[learner]

Just to say it is very well worth getting his teeth done, my ex racehorse's teeth really needed sorting out. (also his back and saddle, as others have said). Good luck, would agree with the lessons post above, only other thing I would add is take your time!

[RustyMary]

jojoba you are a star, thankyou for your help and not makin me feel a fool!


Seconded. Nice one Jo :)

Good luck with your horse alyrosie!

[fitz]

Try just doing some schooling work in walk only, use the school properly and do plenty of school movements, circles of varying size, serpentines and changes of rein. All of these will make the horse work harder than walking large and make it harder to rush with you. Remember, your voice is a powerful tool, see if you can teach him to respond to vocal commands, they pick it up suprising quickly, use a soft drawn out whoa and use as little rein as you can. Lots of praise! If steering is good, always use it to help you slow down, spiralling a circle in will usually take the impulsion out of a forward going horse. Transitions from walk to halt to walk are good, this gets the brakes working safely, use with vocal commands to help the horse "get it" Or try some groundwork, even if you can't lunge, lead. Go over poles, weave round wings, do short walk trot transitions (use that voice again) etc but be disciplined about it so that the horse respects your wishes. A properly fitted running martingale will do no harm, plus you have the neckstrap to grab for!And yes, I have ridden plenty of thoroughbreds, racers in training included! Good luck.

only other thing I would add is take your time!


all good advice as well.

[fitz]

Just to tell my story (because I'm very sensitive about being labelled discouraging and unhelpful).

I got a 4 year old just-backed pony when I was thirteen and I had absolutely no help and very little experience. I couldnt even bridle her properly. Said pony realised that I didnt really know what I was at and progressively decided she had to take charge... She began to nap and rear and buck and you name it, she did it. I was lucky I wasnt badly injured because I fell off nearly every time I rode.

A few months later, on the advice of people who knew what they were at, my parents decided to send the pony to our nearest riding school, where she was schooled and I also got lessons on her for two weeks.

I still have that pony fourteen years later. And I've had the most wonderful time on her.... but I was very lucky that I didnt ruin her or myself in those first few weeks.

You're lucky in that you're a grown-up and you have a friend in this, so you're not on your own.... (you also have fantastic advice available here on NR :D).

So I think that the very best thing you could do is put the lovely Oscar on schooling livery for a while and get lessons on him so you know how to school him yourself. If you cant do that, well you just cant, but if theres even the teeniest chance that you can... go for it.

And keep asking the questions as I said before :)

Good luck

[RustyMary]

I wasn't implying that you were being discouraging or unhelpful at all Fitz (or anyone else for that matter) :)

[fitz]

I wasn't implying that you were being discouraging or unhelpful at all Fitz (or anyone else for that matter) :)

Oh I know that...

but this post did

Simply being told that you have taken on a lot and run and get help is a bit disheartening!


and I was the subject of some criticism when there was a similar situation on here before.....

[alyrosie]

Dont you worry fitz i will keep asking questions!!! Its great to have so much support on here. Will discuss with my friend about schooling livery for oscar and in the meantime continue gently schooling him as i have been with lots of walk to halt transitions and circling and serpentining. At least i am not in a hurry to push him, am just enjoying being with him and bonding. The impression i get from oscar is not that he doesnt know how to behave its that once he has had a trot he gets excited and wants more so we have to work to keep him at a walk. The more time i spend with him the more i will know though so will take my time, be calm and enjoy the time i have with him. All of your posts on here have been very helpful though and will keep them and any others that come in mind!!

[fitz]

Good woman!

Hopefully things will work out very well for you. He looks like a sweety.

[Bobbin]

Sorry if I sounded quite abrupt earlier, it's just in the few years I have been riding I have come across a few ex racers. Some have been sucessfully re-schooled and are now leading full careers as riding horses but by god did they need alot of work. Some on the other hand have been time bombs waiting to happen. I have only been riding for 3 years and my first horse was a tb x, he was a nightmare bless him and I swear I am not ready for a normal TB X let alone a straight TB that has raced.

[Ginger Thing]

Plenty of good advice given already, and good luck to you and your friend, but I would just like to add that one of my TB's really didn't get on with a single jointed bit and is much happier in a double jointed (lozenge or French link) - can even xc him in it, as seen in my avatar! Might be worth a try alongside everything else ;):D

[spamchops]

Fitz, i was not getting at you with my post, it was a general comment about ALL the advice so far, and meant in a positive way to the original poster. Yes, we are all sensitive about criticism, this time though, I feel you are seeing it where it is not present. I merely wanted to put across a positive point of view to the owner to show that they can still do many things themselves, not just run for help and feel that they had handed responsibility over to a third party, which often makes owners feel like a failure. I advocate professional help, along with the other posters, but it is important that the owners are completely involved..

[alyrosie]

Dont worry Bobbin, no offence taken, am quite thick skinned really!!! Will keep you up to date with all the happenings!

[goeslikestink]

i have an ottb and have found a kimblewick bit most successful as its just a tad stronger than a snaffle and is a happy meduim bits are only as strong as the hands that use them she does very well and now competes in x/c eventing and s/j

[Rips]

You've had great advice already - just something else.

My neighbour retrains OTTB for a living, so hes in it mostly from a profit view then a conscientious owner point of view....... even still, the first thing he does is get a qualified professional out to look at their backs, usually a chiro (though I am not such a fan myself) or a physio. Ex-racers, espiecially ones that come from national-hunt (jumpers not flat, flats a whole other kettle of fish!) are notorious for having back problems, and most of the racers that don't make it will have at least one bad fall in their past.

Good Luck :)

[eml]

I am , as most of you are bored hearing :D a great fan of ex racers. They come with built in knowledge of the world and have been handled by experts most of their lifes.

They do vary a lot. At 14 I had an ex racer who was so boring to a teenager... in retrospect he had never understood what legs meant, equally I rode a lot of others who varied from saints to (one later found to have a brain tumour) dangerous hoodlums.

Now I use the quieter ones in my RS and daughter has one as her competition allrounder.

There is no reason that you will not cope as long as you are prepared to understand what sort of training and life your horse has had and you are a well balanced, quickthinking confident rider.

If you are in the UK get in touch with the Exracers Club and ROR (Retraining of Racehorses) who will put you in touch with others and with trainers experienced in these horses.

[Troi]

Alyrose Please take care if you take him out of the school. I was jump judging in my youth at a cross country and have vivid memories of an ex race horse who saw a green field and thought he was on a race track and took off with his rider. She was really shaken and got a big scare.
Troi'd Dad was an ex flat sprinter and he was doing dressage, can be done hang in there:) Please let us know how you get on

[NoviceNic]

Sorry I havent read all the replies cause I dont have time. I need to go to bed. :rolleyes:

Just wanted to tell you that when you pull at the reins of a race horse they go faster. Tis their cue to go faster. So you wont slow an ex racer with the reins. :eek: