Is it ALWAYS the riders fault?

[allthegearnoidea]

A year ago a freind of mine bought her very first horse.14.2 heavyweight cob 6 yrs old, steady confidence giver.It turned out after having him a couple of weeks that he was very very green.He didnt understand leg aids, going forward, he was very very nappy, and refused to move in the sand school.He was rude and bolshy, and used his weight alot!
She did contact previous owner for advise ( in a polite way)and was told any problems were of her own making.THE END
She then spent the next 12 months trying to school this horse.She is new to horse ownership, so asked for help.She had an experienced freind help, who deduced he was totally unschooled had never been lunged etc etc,So we spent two months just lunging and long reining.
Unfortunately the freind couldnt continue with the assistance.She was told by the previous owner that he didnt school because he never had done it, and that as he was only sold as a hacker, he didnt need too!The reply she gave cant be repeated, i did find out this woman sells horses very reguarly- so not the nice kind middle aged lady she appeared, plus she sold from a livery yard to make the deal look genuine.
Anyway she did have lots of communication with her which got her knowhere.
At the risk of boring everyone, she tried natural horsemanship instructor, bhs instructor, well meaning freinds, had teeth checked back checked new £800.00 :eek:fitted saddle.Still he remained nappy, stubborn, rude bolshy.
If i can put it into perspective in one year of schooling the top achievemnt was two circuits of the grass school in trot without a nap rear buck or stopping dead.
She decided this month that she had done all she could and arranged for him to be schooled by an experienced horsewoman who felt sure she could get him moving forward and behaving and sell him on as he is bombproof.
Trouble is she hasnt managed to sell him yet.
She is know beside herself with guilt feeling responsible in every way,her confidence has hit rock bottom.I keep telling her it wasnt her fault the lady who sold her the horse new what she was doing, (walking in front of the horse when he was tried out-on return he wouldnt hack out alone)
She also got in touch with the treking centre were he was on loan - at age 4:mad:and they verified he was a horse that got sour very quickly and was given back.How can i help my freinds confidence return, she tried so very very hard to get this horse going correctly, and it was her lifelong dream that turned into nightmare.Trouble is she keeps reading that its always the riders fault and its making her very depressed, to the point of a breakdown i fear.
I have looked at caroline putus but i could also do with offering her advise and reasons why it isnt always the riders fault!

[shandy84]

I'm sorry I do think in this case it is humans that have caused the problem

Firstly the seller being dubious and also downright lying about him

Secondly your friend because most horses especially cobs at 6 or under are teenagers and are notoriously stubborn, however it is not because she ment wrong just she made the wrong choice in buying him.

It's unfortunate but it sounds like he's been asked a lot of too soon, at 4yrs a cob may not do well in a trecking centre and he sounds like one of these.

Your friend should aim for an older schoolmaster my honest opinion is that nothing under 9 is often suitable for a nervous novice (don't shoot me :eek:) so maybe get her to look older and better schooled.

[PGemini]

My first questions in this case are:

How many times did your friend ride the horse?
Where did she ride the horse?? School?? Roads? Hack??
Did she take someone of experience with her?

I think if you have made the decision to buy then you should try a horse at least twice and ask to see the horse ridden by others, ride yourself and take someone with you so you can see someone you trust ride it.

Its a big committment and if she wanted the horse for schooling she should have ridden it a couple of times in the school or asked for a trial period if this was her first horse

[Mehitabel]

what a shame. it sounds like a combination of things - an inexperienced owner buying a 6 year old, the seller being 'less than helpful' and a lack of help.

5 and 6 year old cobs are renowned for having 'the kevins' as they grow into their big bodies and start to feel their full strength - they've been in work for long enough that it's no longer a challenge so their clever brains need stimulation and they start making their own entertainment. a cob who has ben through the kevins, appropriately disciplined and kept in line and who has come through the other side is worth its weigh tin gold - but that is why nobody ever sells them, once you've done all that hard work you don;t want ot sell!

really, no 6 year old is a steady confidence giver (apart from the very occasional saint) and people who sell them as such need shooting. they are young themselves - the equivalent of a late teenage person, in terms of mental matirity - and need guidance, they can't give it themselves. they will test boundaries subtly at first and if they sense weakness or lack of confidence they take a mile. it's not 'their fault' - they are animals, they just do their thing with no malice intended - but they need the right owner for that stage in their life.

did your friend have advice on the sale? did an instrucotr or knowledgeable friend go with her?

[Zingy]

I don't think it is always the riders fault, as I don't think that in every case there has to be a "fault". Some horses and riders won't get on. It doesn't matter how well matched or not they are on paper, if you have a personality clash then you'll never get the best out of each other.

I don't think anyone can make a horse work and get the best out of it. You have to make the horse want to work. And if the personality clash is such that your horse doesn't want to spend time with you, you will never make them want to work with you. In a worst case scenario, that doesn't just result in a lack of enjoyment but a begrudging "yes, I'll do it", it turns into something much more destructive.

Approach a horse that you do get on with in the same way and there can be a totally different outcome.

[Afellpony]

I certainly dont think it's always the rider's fault either, provided the rider gives a true picture of their experience in the first place. Now, what I would do if I was stuck with this pony is.....turn it away for the winter, no riding at all. Or, you can bring him in each day (if you can manage it) and just make a fuss of him, groom and generally get to know each other. Again if you have the time, take him for a few walks in hand. If these are successful, you can, after a walking session (or a lunging session, if he'll lunge), make sure you have a friend with you and after he's worked a bit, get on him, ask him to walk forward for a couple of strides on both reins and then get off. If he's done everything you've asked him to do, turn him back out again with a small feed. Try the same again the day after and if all goes to plan, turn him away until Spring. I wish you luck with this one.:eek:

[allthegearnoidea]

She tried him out twice.She took another experienced freind with her who, reassured her he was ideal, needless to say we dont see her very much now.
When ridden he was ridden on the road, with the owner infront with polos in pocket which she gave every 5 mins apparently.Half way round she said i will go behind now so you dont think he is following me, it was on a loop so it wasnt realised the horse was on the return journey!!
It is just very very sad that someone so well meaning has been lumbered with a horse obviously so unsuitable for her.
Oh incedently the woman schooling him on now says he is one of the cleverest, most difficult horses she has ever come across who knows every trick in the book.
Also i think to say that the horse had never been schooled and as he was only sold as a happy hacker that didnt matter was ridiculous.Any horse going on the road should be schooled to one degree or another, after all schooling is not advanced dressage just a basic understanding of what the rider is asking, forward, left right, yield etc i know thats very basic but its a basic nessasity when riding on the road i feel.Yes i think my freind should have tried the horse in a school, but the yard didnt have one!!so couldnt and she didnt buy the horse for schooling per se, its a requirement of all horses isnt it? else they wouldnt know what you were asking then to do would they?

[allthegearnoidea]

Thanks a fell pony- good advise she has done much ground work with him (studying parelli, enlightened equitation,richard maxwell, monty roberts, classical dressage, kelly marks. tellington touch, bowen, mctimony, shiatzu- i tell you she has left no stone unturned)- unfortuinatley he also plants when led out in hand.Hes mega clever and has learned doing an impression of a statue gets you everywhere!if asked rather more strongly to move forawrd can result in a major hissy fit bucks and rears.

[vonandiz]

This thread makes me feel sad as it sounds like she has really tried to resolve her cobs problems and hasn't managed to succeed.

If she was honest about her abilities when she bought the horse and has sought advice and tried to resolve the problems in a variety of ways (which it sounds like she has) then what else could she have done? If she has decided to sell him she probably just needs to try and put it behind her it although I'm sure thats much easier said than done.

I hope she manages to regain her faith in herself and manages to either sell him or come up with a viable alternative.

Out of interest is he still being schooled by the "experienced horsewoman"? Did she / is she managing to get any improvement in this horse?

[allthegearnoidea]

I beleive the experienced horsewoman has him more responsive to the leg know.Trouble is i think she has been riding since she was an embryo- or even before. How do you make him do the same thing with a novice rider?Because he knows how to work the rider big time!
Its nothing sinister he jut doesnt want to work - at all,and will use every method to escape!
We did at one time consider buying a carriage and having a go at driving him, but didnt know were to begin, or have the funds.
I think she also had a bit of a rough time at the yard from the livery police -i.e you dont want to do it like that, give him a good hiding he is just being stubborn,use spurs,he is walking all over you, be more assertive, use a cattle prod!!
Trouble is those experienced been through pony club types sure have a way of undermining the confidence of those that come to horses later in life.Its almost as if they shouldnot be allowed to own horses.Sorry i do have chip on my shoulder about it!:D

[Tally.]

I also think this is a sad story, your freind seems to have done all she can and has tried really hard with the horse. There are plenty of people who would of given up on the horse by now. If it really is an impossible task i think she would be best selling the horse and getting a new, experienced horse. Your freind really shouldnt feel bad, what more could she do?

[Kittycat]

I feel very sorry for your friend as she has clearly tried very hard. However I would imagine it is unlikely this horse will be suitable for a novice until he has grown up considerably (and I'm talking maybe 2 or 3 years).

Sadly, your friend was cleverly sold a horse totally unsuitable for her. The woman who sold him was very much in the wrong, and the experienced friend she took with her didn't pick up on the clues.

The best thing for her confidence would be to find another home for him, he will probably make an experienced person a lovely horse eventually. She could then buy an older, proper schoolmaster so she will not feel so overhorsed.

I wish her luck.
:)

[goeslikestink]

poor thing-- she been taken for a ride by an expreince person
i also agree with eeverything thats been said i have seen it many times and i hate it

i hate people taking advantage of others when they inexpreince and dont know enough on the education side as a rider to correct faults

cobs if irish type and heavy are well known to be stubborn and dig there heals in and say no--
if he been used to early in a treking center and just tuaght to tag along
behind then he isnt schooled and also not boomproof
these horses also when they have found that its a good idea in there minds as to use there own body strenght against you then you have to be wiser
and more expreince to say oi--

and those types of horses that do that can be quite dangerous to the novice rider both on the ground and ridden

so what can she do- sell him at a reduce rate to what she brought as
but list all his problems in the advert so she cant be done via trades describtion act as going to court via small claims court as a private person

so she could put him up for sale as project horse and lists his faults
then the its up to the new person who may feel confident to correct his manner allready knowing that the price has been reduce becuase of xyz

alternately - she could get a reputable commercal dealer to buy him
but they wont offer the price she paid for him

or put him in an auction-- ie market

its not nice to put a horse in a market but if she has to she has to

these are only surgestions to help her out a bit
so she can at least get some money back and start again
but what she should have done and maybe just maybe still can
is to ring the trading standards office they are listed in yellow pages
and tell them exactly what you have said on here

as - a horse is a saleable commodity -
and as the lady that orginally sold him is a business she sold the horse willingly knowing that he was unsuitable for what he was advertised as
so there for its comes under the business act the sale of good act and the trading standards act of -- not being fit as described as a quite boomproof horse--

she has therefore two options -- can ring the orginally lady giving her
a what for on the phone and try to make her take him back threthening that you going to trading standards office etc
some it works with some it dont- but then her alternative is to offer the client your matey another horse to the value off - which can in turn be smaller than she had or not up to speed --in others words unfit etc
or give you the money back which was orginally spent on the horse
then if she dont ring the trading standards

but ring them anyways they very helpful and wont bite back

so there plenty there for you matey to seek what to do and to start again
if it was me -- i would ring lady and give her what for
becuase what they dont know -- shes bhs -- as well so ring bhs up
they have there own welfare group -- to checkl horses and to check stable yards that are registered with inspectors -- they have to have a license to teech with -- use you head and fight back

[allthegearnoidea]

Thanks for all your replies, there are some very positive responses here. I will have to get her to have a look. In the meantime we are having lessons together at a school and she has the use of a "does what it says on the tin "fell pony twice a week. Perhaphs in time she will feel confident enough to have another horse.I really hope so.

[allthegearnoidea]

She did take it up with trading standards back in February, she sent two letters and statements from others, the seller wrote back denying all.
The trouble is she isnt classed as a dealer or trader, i constantly find horses she is selling by tapping in her phone number to google.But how many horses do you have to sell a year to be classed as a trader?
Basically trading standards told her that as it was a "private" sale there was nothing they could do.
I have since found out it is a very common trick for unscrupulous dealers to pose as private sellers by placing a horse in a livery yard to look like a private sale,it was only when we found out she has a farm full of other horses that the penny dropped.Not that all dealers are bad i know they arent- the bad ones are those that pose as private sellers so they get no comeback.
Plus its easy for her to say its the buyers fault, it happens all the time people selling horses that arent described accurately, and then saying well they arent machines,they never behaved like that before - mock horror.

[pineapple]

the horse hasnt been schooled he has been used as a riding school horse from a very young age and this can make horses become, stubborn, napy, bolshy as they figure out they can boss inexperienced people around, also they get no one to one attention as they have no real owner. so this horse has grown up with out a real bond. also this type of horse is famous for its stubborn"make me" attitude, although they are lovely horses if brought up and trained correctly.

its not your friends fault. but make sure she takes an experienced person with her when she next chooses a horse, and yes something older would more likely suit better. good luck... i feel sorry for her.

[wonkeywoody]

Hi,
Ditto others comments of horror of your friend being 'fleeced'. There really isnt a printable description for that type of seller - not only no consideration for the humans safety/confidence/happiness etc but also of the horse. I could go on...
But, back to the subject. You say she has tried all sorts of training methods from NH toBHS etc. also you say that in the NH side of things she has looked into just about everybody who does its' methods......
Mnnnn. She is novice. Granted. The horse is novice (and clever, granted). And he is not getting anywhere (?) and she has lost confidence. Not wanting to be too blunt (or be shot at) but wouldnt it be much better if she chose ONE of these methods, went right back to the very beginning and stuck with that chosen method.... I get the impression that she may have 'lots' of knowledge now and may well be confusing the horse by constantly changing the 'rules', not to mention confusing herself. She sounds to have tried too many different ways in a year. Example, Parelli stage 1 takes 1 to 3 months (depending on how much time you spend with your horse weekly) I am only reading between the lines - we are all rooting for her.

[rubysmum]

there is one huge positive to this - yr friend has learnt a huge amount about dif appraoches to riding & horsecare which had she actually bought the bomb proof cob she desired would never have happened - she has demonstrated really good stickability around a very challenging horse and should be able to deal with any new ponio with a good variety of skills - in my real work with challengng teenagers - i really find that the most unloveable and difficult ones are the young people i learn from & refine my skills - so it is sad to sell a horse but she could reflect on how far shes come in this year and what it has taught her - sorrry if this is a bit new agey:)

[icegirl]

Hi,
Ditto others comments of horror of your friend being 'fleeced'. There really isnt a printable description for that type of seller - not only no consideration for the humans safety/confidence/happiness etc but also of the horse. I could go on...
But, back to the subject. You say she has tried all sorts of training methods from NH toBHS etc. also you say that in the NH side of things she has looked into just about everybody who does its' methods......
Mnnnn. She is novice. Granted. The horse is novice (and clever, granted). And he is not getting anywhere (?) and she has lost confidence. Not wanting to be too blunt (or be shot at) but wouldnt it be much better if she chose ONE of these methods, went right back to the very beginning and stuck with that chosen method...." I get the impression that she may have 'lots' of knowledge now and may well be confusing the horse by constantly changing the 'rules', not to mention confusing herself. She sounds to have tried too many different ways in a year." Example, Parelli stage 1 takes 1 to 3 months (depending on how much time you spend with your horse weekly) I am only reading between the lines - we are all rooting for her.

I wondered about the confusion involved in trying all these methods too, and whether it would be better to just stick with one.
Hope it works out anyway. Tough on rider and horse when things end up like this.

[goeslikestink]

She did take it up with trading standards back in February, she sent two letters and statements from others, the seller wrote back denying all.
The trouble is she isnt classed as a dealer or trader, i constantly find horses she is selling by tapping in her phone number to google.But how many horses do you have to sell a year to be classed as a trader?
Basically trading standards told her that as it was a "private" sale there was nothing they could do.
I have since found out it is a very common trick for unscrupulous dealers to pose as private sellers by placing a horse in a livery yard to look like a private sale,it was only when we found out she has a farm full of other horses that the penny dropped.Not that all dealers are bad i know they arent- the bad ones are those that pose as private sellers so they get no comeback.
Plus its easy for her to say its the buyers fault, it happens all the time people selling horses that arent described accurately, and then saying well they arent machines,they never behaved like that before - mock horror.


then tell the tax man - its advasion of tax as in cash in hand

[Wally]

Schooling??? it's a word used so much in the horse world, to me schooling is teaching the horse everything from manners on the ground to, in the extrteme, high school maneouvres.

Sadly I see a lot of "schooling" where a horse is trotted around and around a fenced area with no real goal in mind.

You can only school a horse effectively if you know what you are doing. If the horse is stopping, napping, rearing and refusing to go then he neds a specific structure of schooling and this can only be done by someone experienced in teaching manners and fgetting a horse out of a specific habit.

I hate to say this, but if your friend is a first time owner, then it is not her fault she was sold a "pup", it is not her fault that the horse is nappy and bolshy. But if she is a first time owner I doubt she has the skills to "school" the problems out of him. Even if he is schooled to a better level, if she is nervous of him now, he will probably go back to his old ways withing a week of her having him back.

[allthegearnoidea]

Again thankyou for your replies.I didnt make it very clear before, she didnt actually use all those methods, just researched them all, and chose the ones that seemed most suitable.The trouble is there are always ten solutions to one problem with horses, but basically she had the problem of the happy slappers ( b.h.s fans) telling her to use the whip and spurs and the natural horsemanship instructor telling her to not ride for six months and rub the horse all over with a plastic bag.I know this is generalising but thats pretty much how it seemed.
I think if she could have found one person whos methods she trusted to help her through and give her advice things may have turned out differently.
Trouble is there are a lot of so called experts out there, and if you have been out of horses for a long time, you have no contacts or trusted advisors.So who do you trust and who do you listen too?
Basically its as i said before unless you are in the priveleged position of being bought up with horses and getting experience that way, you are looked down upon, but how else can you learn.

[eventerbabe]

apologies if i repeat anything, haven't had time to read all the replies. I am not suprised that your friend is having schooling issues with a 6 year old cob. They are hitting their teenage tantrum years right then so yes! they will be stubborn, bolshy, obstinate and generally unco-operative! THAT is NOT the horses fault. It is a quirk of the cob breed/type and ANYONE buying a cob should research before purchasing. He sounds like an absolute cracker to me, and the spitting image of my cob whom i've had for 12 years and only just converted to dressage and schooling. They will object and question and throw their toys out of the pram. You just grit your teeth, get on with it and ride them through it.

[shandy84]

Basically its as i said before unless you are in the priveleged position of being bought up with horses and getting experience that way, you are looked down upon, but how else can you learn.


I was looked down upon so sought to change that, learnt as much as I could abouit everything realting to my horse, feed, rugging, stabling etc etc now I am no BHS qualified person but I know how to look after my horse and why and will stand up for my own decisions :) that's what your friend wants to do, learn as much as she can and pick the bits that relate to her

[wonkeywoody]

Hi,
Can the two of you get togerther and start with the following;

www.iceryder.net/7games

This, if you are VERY patient and persistant will help and cure alot of the horses' nappy problems and also give you guys lots of confidence in your new found abilities. None of it involves getting on board and you can do just one small step at a time. You dont need an instructor, just the ability to remain completely calm and "learn" a bit of equus! - the horse already knows that bit!
If you have ?'s just fire them on here!!!

[allthegearnoidea]

Yes thanks for the seven games wonky woody.She had done two months of parelli just prior to him going.I think the biggest isue was the not yielding to pressure.Especially on backing up i saw her trying to get him to back up with the carrot stick on his chest, increasing the pressure gradually, untill there was a bout 700lbs of pressure on and the stick was virtually bent back on itself!the cob casually bent down took he end in his mouth and removed it.;)
However he was getting the idea of backing with inermitent pressure.
Yes i have heard that these sort of horses do sometimes have to be ridden through these teenage tantrum years, however i do think that you shouldnt accept the gauntlet if you arent prepared for a big fight, and she didnt want one.She wanted to go for a safe hack on the roads and lanes, not be trying to control a rearing horse on every junction. At the end of the day he was a project horse, great if you dont work full time and you have no kids.
Again you have a difference of opinion, do you sit out the planting, which could take two hours- no joke.Or do you increase the pressure with, legs, voice whip if need be and create a reversing, spinning, bucking horse.
Difficult isnt it? is he planting cause hes scared or cause hes lazy?
My personal opinion-he was scared, and a whip wont cure that.

[eventerbabe]

Yes i have heard that these sort of horses do sometimes have to be ridden through these teenage tantrum years, however i do think that you shouldnt accept the gauntlet if you arent prepared for a big fight, and she didnt want one.She wanted to go for a safe hack on the roads and lanes, not be trying to control a rearing horse on every junction. At the end of the day he was a project horse, great if you dont work full time and you have no kids.


hmm, not sure i'd class him as a 'project' he's just being a typical cob IMO! But yes, there is no doubt about it that your friend was mis-sold him. does your friend what to keep him? or pass him onto someone who will get him going again?

If she has the time and money and the help of a good instructor then i think he sounds like he could be a nice horse, especially if he is bombproof. but it's sitting out the c**p thats the sticky part :rolleyes:

oh, re the planting, get them going again in any which direction you can asap. My cob used to do this and it drove me to dispair. He eventually gave up coz when he initially started that business when i asked him to move on, he'd take a step back, so i'd keep pushing and make him go back if he wasn't prepared to go forwards. So his planting then did little to give him a breather from work!

[allthegearnoidea]

No, seriously he wouldnt move at all.The only way i can describe it is to say sit on your settee and try to get it to move.
Tried turning, wip wops, backing, sitting it out,singing, screaming, whispering, pinching, surprising him, i honestly cannot stress strongly enough how long and hard we tried to get this horse moving for,he just refused to budge, even trying to unbalance him with one rein didnt work.A smack with the crop and a jab in the ribs did get rears and bucks though.
It just became not-fun, a year down the line i advised her it was time to call it quits, before she was either hurt physically or mentaly.
There are lots of horses out there who are far more willing and anenable.
I know some people like the challenge of a horse like this, but many dont!
As for researching cobs, you only have to tap in the word and you get the following-safecobs, bombproof, genuine cobs, riding school cobs, first horse etc etc the list goes on

[allthegearnoidea]

I just read through your post again eventer babe and its very positive thankyou. I think just too much water has gone under the bridge with this, and i doubt they will give it a go again.I am sure you are right eventally with good help he would be good.Sometimes our lives are to busy and complicated to put up with crap at the stables as well, its supposed to be were we go to be happy.
You know what thy say its an expensive way to be miserable!

[shandy84]

If she has tried all she can, give her the knowledge she did exactly that and more, the pony couldn't have asked for more from her, she has proven herself a good horseowner because of that. When she's ready she should get a real schoolmaster and have a great time. You should get her to join here, we're good at giving confidence boosts ;)

[eventerbabe]

if it's not fun then yes, for both their sakes it's probably best to call it quits. If she's persevered for a year then she's done exceptionally well.

I get very annoyed with all these bombproof and safe cobs sites. they really have multiplied in the last few years now cobs are the 'in' thing to have. Way back when i bought mine i was frowned upon coz cobs were thought pikey ponies! i think this is where a knowledgeable RI/friend is invaluable so you can pick out the true gems from those that are being mis-represented.

[blues mum]

Ilove cobs, but they can be stubborn bargy and very clever.
this one seems to have learnt at an early age that humans do nothing for him, so he will be as un cooperative as possible.
He needs a very firm hand, but also a kind one who will persuade him humans can be fun.
I think your friend has tried all she can, and she needs to accept this wasnt her fault, and that he had been turned sour long before she had him.
When she sells him on though she must be honest, as alot of people will be prepared to work with these problems

[Mikal]

Ditto Zingy. MY first horse bought earlier this year was a fulfillment of a life long ambition (I'm 37 so I've waited a while:p). He was a cob who sounds just like your friends and he managed to single handly destroy my confidence in months. My husband saw his wife turn into a blubbing wreck who ate, slept and dreamt about this horse (and so did my sister-in-law who helped me with him) - I didn't want to give up on him and felt so guilty coz I started to dread going anywhere near him. I'm usually so confident around horses and riding out. My husband suddendly bought me to my senses one day when he said this is your dream and you are absolutely miserable.

After much sole searching and tears I sold him to a much more suitable home - his issues have almost disappeared in his new home. I now realise he just wasn't right for me much like some men are not right for us and some are:D

After a few months licking my wounds I summoned the courage to look again and now have the most fantastic NF who has restored my faith in horse ownership. I have done more on him than I would ever have dared to on the cob, he is an absolute star and I even trust him around my children something I could never have done before (he would have trodden on them to get where he wanted to go:mad:

Tell your friend to cut her losses she tried so hard (harder than I could)don't let this horse put her off he's just not right for her. And, when she's had a few months to get over this experience she should start looking for another one...she will be much wiser....the right horse is out there for her! Good luck and keep us posted:)

[Afellpony]

Just had a thought. Has anyone actually checked whether he's the age the seller said he is? From the description given of the way he behaves suggests he could be a bit younger. I'm probably wrong but it's another thing to look at.

[allthegearnoidea]

The dentist said his age was about right.He was actually rising 7 when she got him, so he is nearly 8 know.
I think he had a massive gap in his education somewhere, or else he has neurological problems:rolleyes:

[Siogfinsceal]

I beleive the experienced horsewoman has him more responsive to the leg know.Trouble is i think she has been riding since she was an embryo- or even before. How do you make him do the same thing with a novice rider?

You dont!!. This woman is getting some results with him? In that case I would advise you and your friend to keep this lady working on him and when he is a more improved sell him to an experienced rider(like this horsewoman) and make it clear that he is not a novice ride so no one else gets into the same situation as your friend.

These type of horses are a nightmare for a novice but if an experienced rider can transform their cleverness and determination into something more positive, he could be a great horse for them in time.

He will never be a suitable horse for your friend but if she can find him a new home she can get herself something more suitable and regain confidence.

DoI think its her fault? nope. Unfortunate situation and from your post shes done a hell of a lot to try and get somewhere with this horse which is admirable for a novice.

as for the trekking experience god those cobs who trek young can get clever. Worked in a trekking centre and we had one lad where if a novice was on him he would wedge himself under a tree (with them on his back!!) and refuse to move! he could also untie any know with his teeth. Put an experienced ride on him though and he could jump and behave.

[coverblown]

Your poor friend; no wonder she has lost her confidence.

This is just the sort of think you read about all the time though. I know you have to give it time, but are there ANY success stories of mature start riders and their first horse?

[allthegearnoidea]

Trouble is what experienced rider would want a horse like him!!!
I dont know any.

By a massive coincidence a girl at our yard also rang about him when he was for sale but didnt get a look in, we think its because she said she had a lot of experience.That seller new what she was doing alright, my freind said she had never seen a little old woman whip money away, lick her fingers and count it so fast.She blarted her eyes out when she sold him, from relief probarly!!
It was obvious from her very negative reaction when approached for help what she was up to.If you really cared about your animal you would give any future owners as much help as possible- wouldnt you?

[shandy84]

You'd be surprised, is he a good looking well conformed cob, if he is experienced riders will be after him for the showring :)

[KAB]

It would be interesting to know where your friend bought the horse from, as I have had a very very similar situation happen to me just over twelve months ago.

Lovely woman...or so she seemed, sold me a confidence giver, suitable for my 10 yr old to ride too, bit of a "baby" going out alone.....but not green....8yr old cob.

He is sensible on the road and nothing frightens him, however, he is insecure when other horses arent around. Does a bit of napping when going out alone - but ok if someone is on foot. I got in touch with previous owner, and she said that she had told the woman that I had bought him from that he had never been out alone and that he wasnt suitable for a novice, or someone lacking a little confidence. He had worked at a student college too so was only used to being with others. I also found out from the previous owner how much the dealer paid for him too.....I was well and truely strung up!

He is very strong and bolshy! I tried sending him back to the woman, contacted the trading standards....but unfortunately I chickened out of taking her to court in the end. I have still got the horse, but I have him up for sale - obviously its taking longer for him to go because I am being honest with people.

I sometimes feel a fool that I have let this happen, because I am such a sensible person with other aspects of my life, but this has just got the better of me.

Tell your friend that she must stop beating herself up about it.....she has done nothing wrong here - she bought a horse that wasnt fit for the purpose for which it was bought, and the seller well and truely mislead her.

[Troi]

I just feel this is me. I thought I was doing the right thing buying a horse that had been used in a riding school with beginners, be nice and quiet with an old codger getting back to riding. I had 18 months of trying:eek::eek: Like everyone else I hated the idea of giving up but it got to the stage he was lashing out at us every time we tried to load him when I took him for our weekly lesson. And I couldn't ride him on his own and eventually couldn't ride him even in company. I got an expert to help with the loading issue and he worked with him for over an hour and told me to get rid. Its left me terrified of riding on my own.
Thanks for all the replies as I was always blaming myself

[shandy84]

Trio don't feel too downhartened, at least you have tried your best, sometimes horses and people don't get on, I had a welsh D on loan that was younger than your chap but with serious issues, he tried to kick me in the head on more than one occasion, so he had to go back before he seriously hurt me, it's no different for you.

Maybe look at something older and not necessarily a cob as they can be very strong and bolshy unless they are saints.

Don't let it put you off just keep looking for the right one when you've sold your chap

[allthegearnoidea]

Well that solves it then you cant always blame the rider
Another urban myth shattered:D:D:D

[allthegearnoidea]

He is very good looking and has excellent confirmation, even a freind(t.b lover) who hates cobs says he is handsome!!
but.... he is only 14.2 , so no good for cob classes.

[shandy84]

Why an earth not!! :eek: I would have thought he was perfect for them :)

[Mehitabel]

Why an earth not!! :eek: I would have thought he was perfect for them :)


becaue it's pretty rare for any cob who is not up to height to get a look in. shouldn't be, but it is how it is.

[allthegearnoidea]

Yes they like them to be a minimum of 15hh i beleive;)

[goeslikestink]

op where are base just curious

[shandy84]

Blimey I would have thought a 14.2hh would have been spot on :eek: what a shame!

[LindaAd]

.

Difficult isnt it? is he planting cause hes scared or cause hes lazy?
My personal opinion-he was scared, and a whip wont cure that.

i
I get very annoyed with all these bombproof and safe cobs sites. they really have multiplied in the last few years now cobs are the 'in' thing to have. Way back when i bought mine i was frowned upon coz cobs were thought pikey ponies! i think this is where a knowledgeable RI/friend is invaluable so you can pick out the true gems from those that are being mis-represented.

Your poor friend; no wonder she has lost her confidence.

This is just the sort of think you read about all the time though. I know you have to give it time, but are there ANY success stories of mature start riders and their first horse?

Well that solves it then you cant always blame the rider
Another urban myth shattered:D:D:D

I think the planting is a horse taking charge because he doesn't trust the rider .... I've been there, although with a warmblood mare, not with a cob. They're all the same underneath...

This is a sad story ... She really needs to get rid of the horse as quickly as she can; the idea of getting it re-schooled and sold to an experienced rider is probably the best ... That dealer sounds an absolute witch, and I'd be all in favour of reporting her for tax evasion. As a way of making a living, selling unsuitable horses to novices is right up there with burglary and selling child pornography. It's just wicked.

But I think it almost always is the rider's fault - not that there's any blame attached (and this cob owner sounds as if she's done everything right, in spades). But there are some horses that are just too much for some riders, and they inevitably get worse ...

As for cobs being fashionable, I couldn't agree more. Because they look so solid and reliable, everone thinks that's what they're like - but really, they're just horses inside, even if they're a bit slower to respond than some breeds. My first horse was a little, common, short-necked skewbald cob, long before cobs became fashionable. He had two party tricks; one was whipping round and galloping home if something was scary, and the other was setting his neck and whipping the lead-rope out of your hands if he didn't want to g with you. But I stuck with him, and one day I suddenly realised that I had this kind, responsive, bomb-proof pony ... So yes, there are success stories. But I had a good instructor, and quite a lot of experience, even though I was a rubbish rider and had never owned a horse before...

I'm sure there's a horse out there for your friend - maybe a share or a working livery would help get her confidence back?

[allthegearnoidea]

Based in the Midlands.
Why are you interested?

[KAB]

Based in the Midlands.
Why are you interested?


I didnt realise that.... where abouts? x I tried PMing you yesterday, you need to empty your emails :rolleyes: