"Faster" horses and novice riders...

[avaadora]

I'd like your opinions on this please, people.

I've been having private lessons on different horses, just generally trying them out to see what suits etc. Last week I was totally fearless and did the most awesome canter known to man (if I do say so myself :cool::p). I was on a cobby mare about 14.3hh and quite chubby (the mare, not me!). She was a bit of a slow starter but once she woke up she was great to ride; nippy round corners and lovely paces- I kept stuck to the saddle in the correct position in canter and everything. Today I was on another chubby cob but he was much slower and even sitting trot was bouncy (normally my sitting trot is fine, it's the canter that goes wonky). It took so much effort to get him into canter and even more to keep him in canter that all the bad habits came right back (tensing up, leaning forwards, losing balance, tightening the reins etc). I was completely shattered and really sore by the end of the lesson (and I'm sure the poor horse's back wasn't much better either). The instructor decided to put me on a faster horse next week but the other members of staff said they would be too much for me...

So anyway, long story short... Do you think it is easier for a beginner/intermediate (ie. learning to control the canter and jump) to learn on more forward going horses or is a "plodder" a safer option? I can understand not putting a beginner on a spooky horse or a racehorse but by the same token learning to use big kicks or the whip to get a horse moving could cause the rider serious injury if done on a different horse that's used to gentle handling. Just interested to hear what people think about this one as I'm guessing a few of you have had similar experiences to this. Also do you reckon the instructor is right or the other members of staff?

[Sarah_Sayers]

I think I sort of agree with you. You have to get some basics under your belt on a plodder, like a good seat, and learning trot and canter ect.... But I think a forward-going horse makes life so much easier. I've just 'moved up' horses at my school, and I always loved my lessons, but now I really love them. Everything is just so much easier, and I enjoy it so much more because I feel the horse is enjoying it too.

Why don't you go with the nippier horse as you feel confident about it, you can always go back to your plodder if you or your instructor feel you are over-horsed.

Hope you have another great lesson.
Sarah.

[carrimclaren]

It's always a difficult one as you don't want to overhorse a beginner as it could realy damage confidence or cause an accident if you put them on something to flighty or fresh but then on the other hand as you've found out putting them on something which is much harder to get going off the leg is def. not a constructive method for some either. In an ideal world something inbetween would suit beginners. I always found it hard to keep a good position with something which you needed a strong leg with.
With an intermediate rider i would expect them to already beable to canter and jump so yes the more fiesty horses would suit an intermediate rider in my book because they would beable to handle something which is spooky or has other quirks. I would not expect a beginner to have to do this. Maybe the odd spook but definitely not something that has dubious brakes or has a bit of a buck in it etc. I suppose at the end of the day the instructor should know what your riding is like and what horse should suit you. Maybe if you just talk to her quietly about your worry of having something too forward going and just ask for something that is going to move off your leg but isn't stupid with it.

[Skib]

I've been having private lessons on different horses, just generally trying them out to see what suits etc.

This is an excellent idea. Ride lots of different horses. Sounds as if you have already learned to adjust the aids to the different horses. So you face the same dilemma as the rest of us. Does one get attached to one particular horse? It is so hard not to.
I was on a cobby mare about 14.3hh and quite chubby (the mare, not me!). She was a bit of a slow starter but once she woke up she was great to ride; nippy round corners and lovely paces- I kept stuck to the saddle in the correct position in canter and everything. Today I was on another chubby cob but he was much slower and even sitting trot was bouncy

My experience of RS horses are that bouncy and forward going are two different things? One of the older slower horses I ride is as smooth as one can imagine. Whereas a dressage horse with elevated paces may be "bumpier". On the other hand an elderly, but forward going horse may have physical limitations which make it stiffer and thus bumpier in an upward transition.

The instructor decided to put me on a faster horse next week but the other members of staff said they would be too much for me...

If you learn with a particular RI who is qualified, to some extent you need to trust the judgement of that person. We on NR are not in a position to question her judgement. Are the other staff members who say she is wrong senior to her? Do they know you better?
My rule is never to do anything that scares me. If you feel scared at what she suggests, talk to her about this and if you don't feel ready, may be ask her to postpone it?

But I would also want to know what is meant by being too much for you? That is very vague. Do they mean you wont be able to stop the horse if you start to slip sideways? or are unblalanced so you may fall off at a corner?

My experience of hacking a forward going pony was that the first thing I needed to ask was how to slow down the canter. If you want to ride fast, you need brakes. Much school teaching of canter is so concentrated on getting a student to ask for the upward transition. Slowing and stopping gets neglected.

So anyway, long story short... Do you think it is easier for a beginner/intermediate (ie. learning to control the canter and jump) to learn on more forward going horses or is a "plodder" a safer option?

Experts on NR always suggest that an elderly novice like me shouldnt ride a young horse, but that is condescending. I first rode my all time dearest horse when she was six. My favourite three horses have been six years old in the UK and four years old in USA.

By the same token learning to use big kicks or the whip to get a horse moving could cause the rider serious injury if done on a different horse that's used to gentle handling.

This is true. But I'd question the big kicks scenario. Even a plod riding school horse shouldnt need kicking? You discovered this with the first mare you described. Once she got going she responded beautifully.
Don't deal with the canter transition in isolation. Each new horse you ride, start with going into trot. Just press with your calves. If the horse doesn't respond, use your whip gently and immediately just behind your leg. Trot a few steps, come back to walk. The just gently ask for trot again. By the second or third time, that horse should go into trot very easily for you. And once you have that responsiveness, the canter transition should come easily too. In effect you are telling the RS horse "This is the way I ride. I expect you to respond to the lightest touch."
Because it is a RS horse ridden by many people, one has to repeat this procedure every time. But my experience is that it works. In other words we create a situation where any horse will listen to us and (unless it is physically unable) will respond to a request for canter.

If you are struggling to sit to a trot and struggling to ask for canter, that is a common problem and will unbalance you for the canter. That is why my RI teaches people to do walk to canter transitions first. It is also why many people like my OH find they can sit easily to an accidental canter.

My suggestion is to discuss all this with the teacher?
To forget about position or controlling the canter and think more about breathing slowly and deeply and relaxing?

If your lack of control in canter is a problem with steering, that may mean that like most of us you are crooked on the horse, or being thrown to one side by a horse that is unequal. That is common in both people and horses. Your solution is to learn the way in which you yourself might be crooked? By having lunge lessons, observing your sitting trot? Analising any slippage, or a tendancy to drift one way or the other.

Once you understand the quirks of your own body, you can learn how to remedy that with a slight alteration of your leg or posture. That is far more important that a universal correct position taken out of a BHS text book.

Your question includes so many sub questions
teacher's judgment
bouncy transitions
fast horses
learning to control canter
that there is no simple answer.
Learning to ride is not like gong to school where the teacher says what will happen and all one needs to do is follow a fixed syllabus. That is why in your case it seems even the staff disagree what is best for you, you poor thing.

And you are the only person who can decide your next step - what is safe, how to build up your riding experience so that you acquire the skills you'd like, at a pace and in a way that brings you pleasure and keeps you safe.

The answer to your questions seems to stand out in your post.
Why is it that you cant ride the first mare again? The one you had the sublime canter on?

[LindaAd]

I'd like your opinions on this please, people.


So anyway, long story short... Do you think it is easier for a beginner/intermediate (ie. learning to control the canter and jump) to learn on more forward going horses or is a "plodder" a safer option? I can understand not putting a beginner on a spooky horse or a racehorse but by the same token learning to use big kicks or the whip to get a horse moving could cause the rider serious injury if done on a different horse that's used to gentle handling. Just interested to hear what people think about this one as I'm guessing a few of you have had similar experiences to this. Also do you reckon the instructor is right or the other members of staff?


Yes, in many ways it is easier to ride a forward-going horse, especially in the school: you don't have to use your legs to create the impulsion, you just have to ask and go with it.

The problem is that the more forward-going horse is often more sensitive, and will respond to whatever the rider does even if that's not actually what the rider meant. That's why novice riders are often given the ploddy types, who will filter out all instructions until they are made very clear and positive. It is a lot safer.

I was in a lesson the other day and a girl was riding a horse who is a total schoolmistress: she knows exactly what she's meant to do and will listen to the instructor and filter out rubbish messages from the rider. But she's not a plod, and she does tend to go faster and faster over jumps - she loves them. We were jumping a tiny course, and she speeded up a bit and jumped big; the rider was scared and tipped forward, hanging on to the reins. Of course the horse took that as an instruction to go even faster. The RI was shouting "Sit up! Sit up!", and in the end the rider managed to sit up, and you could see she was getting the horse back under control, but they'd reached the end of the school and the horse turned with a bounce, and the rider had no balance left and she flopped off. (It was in a sand school so she wasn't hurt). But that's the sort of thing that can happen with a novice rider and a forward-going horse.

You're a much better rider if you can create impulsion (without "big kicks") and keep it in a plod.

But I agree with Skib - the more different horses you can ride, the better.

[Afellpony]

It is a lot easier on a forward going horse. Instead of concentrating on keeping the horse going, you can concentrate on your position better. Myself, I much prefer a foreward going horse to one you have to keep pushing on.

[Crazyhorse]

I think this is quite a difficult question to answer. One one hand a forward going horse makes things easier in that you can perfect your position more without the constant need to push the horse forwards, which on a ploddy horse can cause someone's position to fall to bits. On the otherhand, a forward going horse for a beginner could scare the pants off them. I think it would have for me. It could end up the classic scenario of horse goes too fast, rider tenses and grips and horse bombs off even more. Also, there is a difference between forward horses and horses that are forward thinking, so the rider needs to have quick reactions and be thinking ahead.

In the last year I have been given the forward going horses in my lessons and ones that need a bit of work on straightness etc. They are also very sensitive. So, really I think you need to "earn" the right to ride these horses in a way by showing you are quiet rider and able to deal with sensitive horses who may tank off if you jabbed them in the mouth or kicked.

I agree also that a mixture of horses is a great idea, as every horse is a teacher and will improve your riding, even if you don't think it at the time.

[Purple Hugs]

At the beginning of my learning to ride, i was lucky to get expeirence of a wide variety of horses. :) from plods that would emergency break in EVERY corner (unless you nagged them before the corner) to horses that responded to squeezes and changes of seat.. you can imagine as a novice how much that horse was confused by the time i got off and how nervous i was to even MOVE when i was on him! lol espeically as he was not far short of 17hh's! lol

I do think it stood me well and now i'm very much a 'yeah i'll have a go'. There are not many i don't feel safe on. :) And it doesn't take me long to settle to them in general either.

But... I do like to get to know a horse, and know when i get on what i need to do. :) especially when jumping. :)

[goeslikestink]

This is an excellent idea. Ride lots of different horses. Sounds as if you have already learned to adjust the aids to the different horses. So you face the same dilemma as the rest of us. Does one get attached to one particular horse? It is so hard not to.


My experience of RS horses are that bouncy and forward going are two different things? One of the older slower horses I ride is as smooth as one can imagine. Whereas a dressage horse with elevated paces may be "bumpier". On the other hand an elderly, but forward going horse may have physical limitations which make it stiffer and thus bumpier in an upward transition.



If you learn with a particular RI who is qualified, to some extent you need to trust the judgement of that person. We on NR are not in a position to question her judgement. Are the other staff members who say she is wrong senior to her? Do they know you better?
My rule is never to do anything that scares me. If you feel scared at what she suggests, talk to her about this and if you don't feel ready, may be ask her to postpone it?

But I would also want to know what is meant by being too much for you? That is very vague. Do they mean you wont be able to stop the horse if you start to slip sideways? or are unblalanced so you may fall off at a corner?

My experience of hacking a forward going pony was that the first thing I needed to ask was how to slow down the canter. If you want to ride fast, you need brakes. Much school teaching of canter is so concentrated on getting a student to ask for the upward transition. Slowing and stopping gets neglected.



Experts on NR always suggest that an elderly novice like me shouldnt ride a young horse, but that is condescending. I first rode my all time dearest horse when she was six. My favourite three horses have been six years old in the UK and four years old in USA.



This is true. But I'd question the big kicks scenario. Even a plod riding school horse shouldnt need kicking? You discovered this with the first mare you described. Once she got going she responded beautifully.
Don't deal with the canter transition in isolation. Each new horse you ride, start with going into trot. Just press with your calves. If the horse doesn't respond, use your whip gently and immediately just behind your leg. Trot a few steps, come back to walk. The just gently ask for trot again. By the second or third time, that horse should go into trot very easily for you. And once you have that responsiveness, the canter transition should come easily too. In effect you are telling the RS horse "This is the way I ride. I expect you to respond to the lightest touch."
Because it is a RS horse ridden by many people, one has to repeat this procedure every time. But my experience is that it works. In other words we create a situation where any horse will listen to us and (unless it is physically unable) will respond to a request for canter.

If you are struggling to sit to a trot and struggling to ask for canter, that is a common problem and will unbalance you for the canter. That is why my RI teaches people to do walk to canter transitions first. It is also why many people like my OH find they can sit easily to an accidental canter.

My suggestion is to discuss all this with the teacher?
To forget about position or controlling the canter and think more about breathing slowly and deeply and relaxing?

If your lack of control in canter is a problem with steering, that may mean that like most of us you are crooked on the horse, or being thrown to one side by a horse that is unequal. That is common in both people and horses. Your solution is to learn the way in which you yourself might be crooked? By having lunge lessons, observing your sitting trot? Analising any slippage, or a tendancy to drift one way or the other.

Once you understand the quirks of your own body, you can learn how to remedy that with a slight alteration of your leg or posture. That is far more important that a universal correct position taken out of a BHS text book.

Your question includes so many sub questions
teacher's judgment
bouncy transitions
fast horses
learning to control canter
that there is no simple answer.
Learning to ride is not like gong to school where the teacher says what will happen and all one needs to do is follow a fixed syllabus. That is why in your case it seems even the staff disagree what is best for you, you poor thing.

And you are the only person who can decide your next step - what is safe, how to build up your riding experience so that you acquire the skills you'd like, at a pace and in a way that brings you pleasure and keeps you safe.

The answer to your questions seems to stand out in your post.
Why is it that you cant ride the first mare again? The one you had the sublime canter on?

oh well said - i agree -an no two horses are alike
also will add when having a private lesson a its the same with a gruop
as well -- you have the personalty of your self -- then that of the horse and also the trianer-- if a group session take can triple or quadruple the amont of personalties one has to deal with at that time --

[Tally.]

I think its fine to take things as they come, try a faster horse but not an uncontrolable one. its great to ride a horse who goes into canter in the first corner and its great getting off a horse and your legs aren't killing you from all the nudging and squeezing :)