I've always wondered ...

[puzzles]

Why do many show jumpers lift their lower legs/let them slip back, when juping a fence?
surely we're forever being taught the importance of a stable, secure lower leg - why do they do it?

xx

[Jessica23]

I have to admit to doing this...

I dont really know why, i never used to when i was younger... If im really honest i think i'd say that the fact i stopped having riding lessons didnt help, having someone nag you about it makes you notice it more. Its not caused me problems because im so used to my horses jump and he never spooks/refuses so im fairly safe on him, but it definately isn't good because it gives you a more unbalanced seat..

I'd be interested to know if anyone can say WHY it happens though, cos it drives me mad, no matter how much i try to keep them still they slip back lol! :D

[CurlyWurlyRach]

i think its something to do with fence height.

I can keep my leg stable uptil 3ft+ spreads and then it starts to slide.

[PinkGlamourGurl]

DONT get me started :p

Pet hate of mine.

Have a read...

Of This (http://www.newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118933)

Its a bit long winded yes :p

[ClaireBear_nz]

I do it - badly to be honest, it's me trying to find my balance. To be honest, it doesnt hugely bother me, yes I'd like a perfect position but I find that when I'm jumping, I'm definitely more concerned with surviving than with where my legs are going.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v665/ClaireBear_nz/20071110_4991Tally.jpg

[Waikato Valuta]

I know what you mean. For example the two riders below. LOL.


http://www.worth1000.com/entries/118000/118299vcEB_w.jpg

http://www.worth1000.com/entries/199500/199753nSUR_w.jpg

[PinkGlamourGurl]

Clairbear- I think you have a nice stable lower leg! I have seen FAR worse. Like kicking yourself in the back of the head worse :p

[Kc..]

Is it criticise the showjumper week or something?

I do it, and sorry if you don't like it but i take great offence that so many people can willy nilly question it. It's not easy and personally when i'm coming upto a huge fence the last thing i'm thinking about is where my legs are aslong as they aren't round my ears i don't care. I'm more concerned with getting the right stride, staying in control and giving the horse the best possible chance of clearing it.

I also wish i could have a 'perfect' position, but i think it is out of order to criticise like this.

I apologise if this makes you cringe this my bad leg syndrome. Not a huge jump but still it's there.
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb152/kc-saxmax72/Nimby%20and%20co/1632918090a4272732793b915376696l.jpg

[Sam (aka SLW)]

I don't think people are trying to cirticise KC.
I think that when we are learning to ride, it has always been drummed into us about a secure lower leg position which we all work hard to achieve. Then we see the top riders, who I am not criticising at all, but I agree that there does seem to be a lot of movement in their lower leg over the huge jumps.
I think this is more of a "it was drummed into me, but how come the best riders don't do it"??
I have met John Whitaker and seen him ride in person when he came to buy a horse from us ~ a truly amazing rider but yes even his leg swings as he is jumping, how come??
No insults or critique in this thread, just why?? :D

[puzzles]

I don't think people are trying to cirticise KC.
I think that when we are learning to ride, it has always been drummed into us about a secure lower leg position which we all work hard to achieve. Then we see the top riders, who I am not criticising at all, but I agree that there does seem to be a lot of movement in their lower leg over the huge jumps.
I think this is more of a "it was drummed into me, but how come the best riders don't do it"??
I have met John Whitaker and seen him ride in person when he came to buy a horse from us ~ a truly amazing rider but yes even his leg swings as he is jumping, how come??
No insults or critique in this thread, just why?? :D

Exactly! :D A lot of professionals and young, ambitious riders do it and I was just wondering if I'm missing some great tip here! :p
I didn't even know there was another similar thread til now ...

[Kc..]

I think this is more of a "it was drummed into me, but how come the best riders don't do it"??


Yeah i guess it's a good point, just a bit touchy as some people seen to genuinely think your an awful rider if you do it.

I only do it if it's over about 3foot.
:)

[Jessica23]

Well i didnt take it personally. Me and my boy have done well enough with my awful lower leg for me not to care what people think about it :D I dont think mine is THAT bad, not enough to throw me off balance.. I've seen some REALLY bad ones.. See bottom of my post :p

What really annoys me though, is those people who feel the need to wear spurs, and then to stop themselves from falling off when they fling their legs right back, they turn their toes out and dig their evil spurs into the horses sides :mad: I've seen so many cut and bloody stomaches on horses from jumping :confused:

Anyway....

My funny leg positions:

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w230/silverbriar/charlieledburyxc.jpg

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w230/silverbriar/CharlieGatcombe3.jpg

Some googled pics to make me feel better... Im not THAT bad, honest! lol

http://www.thejoyofhorses.com/june00/media/windsor-horse-show-show-jumping-3.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39934000/jpg/_39934608_skelolym2023.jpg

This is just BAD lol
http://members.surfbest.net/hillbilly@surfbest.net/images/critique5.jpg

[horse__obsessed]

I dont think its a tip that your missing, i think its that over larger jumps its less of a worry, I know I only do it over jumpsover about 3ft

[Kc..]

This is just BAD lol
http://members.surfbest.net/hillbilly@surfbest.net/images/critique5.jpg

LOL! Oh dear yes i would agree not great.

The whole spurs thing is awful though, i have never got a benefit from wearing spurs on any of the horses i've jumped..

A couple of the pictures there are pretty bad and definately make me feel a bit better! :rolleyes:

[PinkGlamourGurl]

I dont think people are awful riders if they do it btw. I just personally dont like it. I know people cant help it sometimes.

Its just one of them things, hmm kind of like some people dont like people with busy hands or people that override with their seat etc etc

[puzzles]

Surely though - and logically - the higher the jump the more important a secure lower leg should be?

xx

[PinkGlamourGurl]

Thats how I tend to think. I realise it gets more difficult, but I wouldnt attempt to jump a huge fence unless I was 100% about my legs, I see them as the foundation of a secure jumping position :D

[CurlyWurlyRach]

Surely though - and logically - the higher the jump the more important a secure lower leg should be?

xx

theoretically yes but its like with anything - its over too fast usually.

[x.fat-pony.x]

Personally as long as both horse and rider make it safely over the jump without repurcussions e.g rider catching horse in mouth, landing too heavy, I don't find lower legs an issue
:)

x

[CER1389]

See I don't but the whole "It's to do with the height of fences" Lookat todays eventers - you don't see thier lower leg sliding back around Burghly! The lower leg is firmly jammed in!

William Fox Pitt:
xc
http://www.swisseventingclub.ch/bilder/fox-pitt_badminton%2005_c.jpg
sj
http://www.gatcombe-horse.co.uk/images/main/william_fox_pitt_show_jumping_ph.jpg

Pippa Funnel:
xc
http://www.equestrian.co.uk/Eventing/Images/Ensign01.jpg
sj
http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/1137170.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19390335F8FA9CA92A6E4B275F8F906C03C9930FDCFC4C15FBB


But then a show jumper:
http://www.toggi.com/login/xtreme_team/uploads/images/Nick.jpg
http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=1301&rendTypeId=4
http://www.actshowjumpclub.com.au/Images/grant2004.jpg

So I know the sj's are jumping slightly higher than the eventers...but I can't understand why theres such a big diference in their leg position :confused:
Saying that, you wouldn't get me near any of those jumps! Ad as long as they get over them safley without injuring the horse I can't imagine it overly matters.

[Waikato Valuta]

I thought it was much safer to have the lower leg steady. Stuff looking good don't you want to stay on the horse if it, refuses or stumbles? Or is that just me?

I guess the top horses don't refuse very often.

[Roxy Sew]

Thats interesting about the difference in leg position in XC and SJ. Maybe they are less strict on it as if their lower leg is back slghtly there is less chance that it could catch the jump and knock it down? Maybe its also a subconcious thing where the rider of XC knows that the jumps are SOLID and therefor must ride their very best?
I always thought it was to do with the gravity of jumping bigger jumps, made it harder to keep a stable lower leg position.:confused:

[ClaireBear_nz]

It's far far easier to keep a stable lower leg position cross-country than show-jumping, show-jumping, you're twisting and turning so fast that I find it really hard. Cross-country, theres a lot of time to balance between fences and also I keep my stirrups shorter cross-country.

Position is also different cross-country as opposed to show-jumping, i ride much more defensively into XC fences (while going "thats going to HURRRT if I fall on it"!) but SJ I'm more forward, so my legs go back

One of my only XC shots, my stirrups were too long and my horse was going too fast, the jump was 3'3"-3'6"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v665/ClaireBear_nz/20071110_5008tally.jpg

[NZdressage]

hey guys wake up most of those pics of you people that say you dont have a stable leg are over minimal jumps and then your comparing yourself to riders jumping huge fences....reality check please

[ranee]

i can see what you mean i do showjumping and have jumped up to near 1.30m without my lower leg swinging back it is hard as there is so much to think about when jumping big fences i think it might have something to do with the way the horse jumps.as far as i can say i think it is as they dont put weight down through their heels so it has to go somewere and it goes back.if that makes sense

[horsey1992devon]

. It's not easy and personally when i'm coming upto a huge fence the last thing i'm thinking about is where my legs are aslong as they aren't round my ears i don't care. I'm more concerned with getting the right stride, staying in control and giving the horse the best possible chance of clearing it.



Ditto that!
I have an extrememly bad lower leg position over fences, in some video stills i've seen i am almost laying down on the horse with my legs out straight :o:o
does make me cringe to see it, but i never feel like i'm doing that. It gets more extreme the higher the fences get.
But tbh, like Kc said, the last thing i'm thinking about is my leg position when i'm cantering upto a jump. I just concentrate on getting the stride and rhythmn the horse needs, and then I just go with the movement as much as I can.
I would love to change it, but I think that it will take a lot to do so, as I have been jumping like this for about 6 or 7 odd years..it's just automatic now.:o:o

[Kc..]

'NZdressage' i am aware that i don't go around 1.30m courses with top showjumpers however if i did i would still do it.. (put my lower leg back)

I never used to do it.. although the last time i had a jumping lesson i was jumping 2'9 courses. And now i'm jumping around 4'6 so i don't know maybe a lesson would improve this? I never feel as though it affects me and i don't know the more i think about it, i would find it difficult to bring it forward. Although with a bit of help of a few people on NR i have improved this far.. However the rest of my position kind of went out the window :o

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb152/kc-saxmax72/Nimby%20and%20co/jump7.jpg

That jump is only about 3'3 maybe slightly bigger.

[carrimclaren]

To be fair i agree with the person who said if they're getting round safely and doing no harm to anyone then i don't think it bothers me overtly that their position is "techincally" wrong. These people are doing fences that i feel faint standing next to. I'm sure they'd love to do it with the same style that people do their dressage with but as someone has said when approaching huge fences on horses which are, let's be honest, completely different to anything us mere mortals will ride, i'm sure safety, stride, balance, energy etc. are the first few things and "hmm where's my position gone to today" is one of the last when approaching a 5ft spread from a tight angled turn. I suppose all i'm saying is that these people have a job/passion and they do it at the end of the day. I suppose i don't feel that i can comment that their leg should be in a certain position because i've never been in their place (thankfully), these horses jump completely differently to an average horse would over 2"9, there's much more power from behind, there's much more controlled energy and it will i'd imagine be a completely different feeling to just a smaller pop, plus the moment happens so fast that i don't even think you'd get chance to think, whoops i'm mid air let's throw that leg back. Since many of them don't seem to do too badly i'd imagine that if you do have a good balance/or are a good rider it does after all not matter too much if your lower leg goes back :) quick p.s every rider has their faults, even if they're one of the top riders of the day, so maybe some of these people are ones that are getting taught differently or have the same pet peeves we have (albeit not with the same hideous results i get) :)