How to make her listen!!

[LADYRIDER]

Hi all, im new to this site and was reading some of your messages, Ive just started riding after a ten year break. I grew up with horses when I was younger and always loved the bond you could form, anyway I was recently offered he chance to ride again on a friends horse as she only riades one day a week. I jumped at the chance assuming I would remember everything....HOW WRONG WAS I!
Lady who i ride is incredibly strong and not very disciplined her owner gives up the first time she fails to do something right and unfortunately this has made her very stubborn.
I have taken her out for group hacks in the forest which was fine...as long as she was in front but I schooled her for the first time today and she was a nightmare!! How do I get her to listen to me...its like trying to teach an old dog new tricks!!:confused:

[Cobgirl]

Hi and welcome! Sounds as if your new mount is playing the humans as fools. Horses are such intelligent animals and just know how to try it on! I think your friend has caused the problem in the first place by letting the horse dominate. They have to know where they are in the pecking order and this can be done gently but firmly.

It's not too late though and perhaps you can be the leader here showing your friend how it is done. Be confident and assertive with calm energy around the horse. So if you are leading her from the stable, take the lead. Never let her try and walk in front of you. Always stand at her shoulder and talk to her in a calm but assertive voice. Make sure that she never invades 'your' space if she does, stand firm infront of her and with the lead rope jerk downwards whilst walking forward into the horse making her move her feet backwards.

Only give praise and rewards when the horse is calm and showing no signs of dominant behaviour - it will soon catch on!!

Read what you can by Tim Hayes, Natural horseman. He puts everything in perspective with his views on bonding with horses: "Create a relationship with your horse by communicating in the horse's natural language. Understand and communicate with the horse physically, mentally and emotionally. Establish yourself as his leader by communicating with him naturally on the ground before you get on his back. Then ride together in harmony in any saddle you want."

I love this guy's philosophy!

I use similar techniques with my 64 kilo Bullmastiff, Harley. He might be huge, but boy does he know where he is in the pecking order!!

[LADYRIDER]

Hi, thanks for that I will try!
My friend took her in the school today and Lady planted her feet in the sand and bucked her till she flew off!! Glad to say she hasn't done that with me yet.....
I think the best thing I can do is start right from scratch and just do ground work with her and gain her trust like you said, I do think my friend has not done me or her any favours by letting Lady get away with everything.
Her problem also lies in her strength, she used to be driven years ago and she is so powerful in the neck and shoulders that you have to constantly play with her mouth otherwise she points her nose and just bolts.
Im up for a challenge but this is a bit much after such a long break! I will keep you posted on how things turn out!!!

:)

[NoviceNic]

Could there be an issue with Lady's tack/back?? Could be pain related. I would ask the owner to get a back person in first.

[Stella2]

Hello and Welcome. If you are finding that you are rusty and the mare isn't used to doing as the rider asks, I'd say that some riding lessons with a good instructor are essential. We all benefit from lessons however good we are - you can't beat 'eyes on the ground'. After all, our top riders work with coaches (instructors) all of the time.

[vonandiz]

Hello and Welcome.:)

It sounds like you've jumped right back in with both feet! :D

Could you give us a few more details about why she's a "nightmare" in the school? What does she do happily in the school (if anything)? What have you tried to do with her?

Sorry for all the questions, its just that we may be help more if we had a bit more background info.

[doris]

I think we need more info in order to be able to offer any advice.
I don't mean this in any rude way, but because you haven't been on horses for so long, is it possible that this horse isn't as much of a nightmare as you think? It could be that you are slightly overhorsed for your level of expertise. I'm sure she is everything you say, but is she the same with all riders? i do know what it's like, because over the years I've had some long breaks away from riding, and the confidence can be an issue.

It's true that you never lose the basic riding ability, but the expertise and knowledge do disappear a bit if you don't ride for a long time.

[LADYRIDER]

Hi All, thank you for trying to help me!
Basically in the school she will walk/trot/walk etc and halt nice and easily but if you try to take her from trot to canter she freaks out and bucks or bolts towards the gate? :confused:

I have hacked out with her alone and in a group of 3 and she is fine, she likes to be in front or she tends to want to race but other than that shes fine.

I have no problems with her out and about and she is excellent on roads.

The other I problem I have is we like to jump in the forest but she gets completely over excited and charges towards it and bounces rather than jumps! :)

Doris, i appreciate what you say and had i have schooled her first I would have said that I was over horsed, however after riding out with her and experiencing few if any problems I would tend to say no, her strength is an issue but that is a problem for others who have ridden her in the past.

NoviceNic, my firend has had her back checked out and there appear to be no problems her tack is fine also i really think its a behavioral thing???

[NoviceNic]

Could be needing an experienced schooler thus helping with balance. Or could just literally be taking the mickey. ;)

[Skib]

If this horse is compliant in walk, halt and trot and not canter it does sound as if she may have some physical degeneration, a problem with her hips or hocks perhaps that makes it had for her to push off into a smooth transition and to canter smoothly once she gets canter?

I am posting only to report something I have seen the trainer Michael Peace do with problem horses at a clinic to get them to listen.
Right at the start, before the normal warm up, ride the horse in walk on a long rein, steering in random patterns within the school. Turn this way and that. Dont hurry this. Take time, as if there is nothing else in the world you want to do.
The horse finds itself in a vacant space, it is obliged to respond to very faint touches on a loose rein and it starts to listen. Once the horse is listening in walk Michael Peace would progress to trotting circles on each rein and then quite quickly with the horse moving well forward he would allow the horse to move from trot to canter, almost choosing its own moment to transition to canter on each lead to see what was happening with the horse. In other words by "not riding", by doing almost nothing the rider makes the horse dependent on his guidance.

And by allowing the horse to transition to canter at the moment when it was able to and it was easy for the horse, one could observe any physical problems. Whether the bouncing is naughtiness or whether the horse physically needs the extra shove off to get moving in canter?

But it is the random turns on a long rein in walk, that are the vital step in having the horse listen.

[Pibstar]

lady! she sounds like mine.......... gets excited when jumping but jumps off the wrong leg and more bounce's over, likes to be ahead on a hack and thinks she is racing everyone, she used to be a driving horse so brings in all her power from her neck and front............

I have been working from the ground recently due to being pregnant. Her owner has seen some lovely improvements and I hope to continue for when I am riding again.

1) start of with lungeing in big circles - big a poss. then after a few weeks..... yes weeks.... take your time..... start to bring those circles in smaller, taking them in and out. This will improve her balance and her listening skills just with her voice. If she is not good on the lunge have a lesson on just lunging. I did (didnt find the RI very helpful) so read alot and she went to bucking on one rein to going perfectly for anyone now.
2) then bring in a second rein and use a roller, lunge like normal with the second rein coming around her bum. This will encourage her to tuck her chin in and bring her back end in more. this is like long reining but saves you having to use side reins (i dont like just personal taste)
3) you can progress from there with long reining and getting them to listen. lunging is harder work for them so can only be done for 20 minutes maybe half an hour but long reining can be done for longer and you can move around changing the rein etc.
4) then you can bring in trotting pole
5) then raise the trotting poles.

this is where I am at and its taken 3 1/2 months. Mollie uses her back end more, is able to bend and listens much more then before but we still have some time to go. I want to spend more time on the raised poles then take the second rein away and start popping her over some jumps, her whole body will be more tonned and she will have muscles in the right places to jump the jump rather than throw her self over it. Canter will become easier for her as she can bend (horses naturally bend into canter) use her back end more. All of this has to be done slowly as you are building their muscles and creating more strenght!!!!!

I hope this helps, you might not want to go down the same road as me, but read up and different books and pick out a few things to try. PM me if you want more info.
X good luck