Where can I get a harness altered?

[Zingy]

Does anyone know where I can get alterations done to synthetic driving harness in the north west? I need some kind of quick release mechanism on it (after a rather bad afternoon involving a pony, trap and a hay trailer!):eek:

[maverick927]

Look up directories on the interent. I find Stabletalk (http://www.stabletalk.co.uk) very good. You should try them and see.

Or I don't know whether you have something like this but here in N. Ireland we have a Yellow Pages and you would look up harness markers and they give all the numbers.

[Laetitia]

Have you tried the British Driving Society? their area commissioner for where you are may be able to put you in touch with someone.The people who actually made your harness might offer this service..Sorry to hear you have had an altercation with a hay trailer, do hope you and pony are O.K. and not hurt or anything.Upsetting when something like that happens.Cheers.L

[Wally]

Any working saddler should be able to alter your harness for you.

Just let him know which quick release mechanisms you want and he/she will be able to alter it for you.

Scary when things go wrong in harness innit? Hope not too bad a spill.

[Zingy]

Everything ok thanks! The worrying bit now is starting again - this was the first time he'd pulled the trap and he just got really panicky when he saw the other horses and heard a dog. Think too much happened at once. Thankfully noone in the trap though - just leading him. I was really surprised as he's never bothered with anything else he's pulled, but it has made me realise how bad an accident could be. I'm going to go back a bit with him and try him in an open bridle - I think part of what worried him was that he turned to see what was going on because of the blinkers. He's not done that for ages so I thought he'd got used to them. I'm not intending to drive him on the road anyway, so I would think an open bridle would be ok - he's generally very calm. Any comments?! Just think I need a faster way of getting the harness off in an emergency rather than undoing buckles though as being synthetic it's not going to break. Wally, what's the best way of getting it done? I've been told double velcro. The traces clip to the collar, but everything else is buckled. Thanks.

[Laetitia]

I think the Mormons use open bridles, no reason why you shouldn't.Have you tried riding him in blinkers.Do tell me which part of the harness you are planning to use velcro on.Have you contacted the British Horse Driving Trials Assoc.Email. bhdta@horsedrivingtrials.co.uk and their website.www.horsedrivingtrials.co.uk they use quick release on their harness,so may be able to help you. I have quick release on my traces,and everything else is buckled.Remember to carry a knife with you in case you need to cut the harness off . I don't want to bind on but safety,safety, safety.Keep yourself safe,and look at the areas of the harness that take the strain,ie traces etc. Best of luck.L

[Sharon H]

Offhand, I can't think of any part of the harness that I'd be happy using velcro on.

[Laetitia]

I do agree ,Sharon,Velcro isn't strong enough for any part of the harness if one considers what the harness actually does. If any of the harness parts company there is a big big risk of an accident,hence the use of leather or synthetic.

[Zingy]

I figured I could put quick release clips on the traces and the breeching - like the ones you get on headcollars. The bit I was told to put velcro on was where the shafts pass through the sides (don't know the technical name for that bit!). At the moment to get the trap off I'm having to undo 4 buckles - not good in an emergency. Having said that I wasn't sure if velcro would be strong enough. The last thing I wasn is an accidentg caused by bits falling apart! I do feel though that whilst a knife might come in useful, it would take as long to cut through the harness as to unbuckle it. I'm going to contact a few harness makers and see how they manage it - I'll let you know. Thanks for all the suggestions.

[Laetitia]

I was just thinking about your last post Zingy,and looking at my harness-there are four buckles to take the harness off on mine.the breeching straps onto the cart have buckles one each side.the back band each side which you tighten once you are put to and secures the tugs to prevent the shafts bouncing too much.With a two wheeler the shafts need to float in the tugs for correct balance,with four wheeler independant shafts you use tilbury tugs.What sort of cart are you using.If you like I can ask my trainer what quick release and where is recommended.

[Zingy]

Thanks Laetitia. I'm using a two wheeled trap as I was warned away from anything with 4 wheels for breaking. Another question - how far forward do the shafts need to come - do the ends need to be in front of the pony, level with the front or behind? Getting horribly confused by vague instructions in books and seeing pictures of what in some cases must be things done wrong! I'm using a breast collar rather than a full collar, so do I still have the same problem that the shafts might catch on it?

Zingy

Nearly forgot - what are Tilbury tugs?

[Sharon H]

Zingy, please forgive me for saying this but I get the impression that you're not exactly an experienced driver?
I'm just a bit concerned because breaking a horse to drive is really a job for someone who has plenty of experience and can foresee what might go wrong. If a horse has a frightening experience in it's early lessons, it can take a long time to get it's confidence back, if ever.
Putting your horse in an open bridle at this stage may well freak it out altogether if you have doing it's training so far in blinkers. Whilst they become accustomed to the noise behind them, seeing the trap 'chasing' them can blow their minds.
There are some very good books on breaking horses to harness. Sally Walronds' one is very good but I would recommend that you check out the British Driving Society website and see if there's an instructor or a club in your area who could maybe come along and give you a hand.
The end of the shafts should finish somewhere around the horse's shoulder, any longer and you risk getting the reins/bit caught up in them.
Tilbury tugs should only be used if you are driving a four wheeler on which the shafts move, they help to keep the tugs close to the pad. If you're driving a 2 wheeler with fixed shafts the you really need the tugs to be able to move up and down with the horses movement otherwise you will be putting a lot of pressure on his back and stomach. However the tugs should not be able to move backwards or forwards and slip off the pad, otherwise they will be resting on the horses skin and causing him discomfort.
If your vehicle is correctly balanced and the right size for the horse then it shouldn't move about too much.

[Laetitia]

Sally Walrond's books are very informative.Zingy,I do rather agree with Sharon, that you may need someone just to run through basic stuff with you to enable you to get going ,especially as you have had one altercation with a trailer already. If you tell me which county Manchester is in (I'm hopeless at where places are) I'll find the number of the British Driving Society's commissioner for your area,and post it to you. The web for the society is britishdrivingsociety.co.uk Cheers Laetitia.

[Zingy]

Is it so obvious I've never driven before?!;)

Seriously, I'd be horrified at someone trying to break a horse that knows nothing, bu I like to think I'm not completely deranged!

It was always my intention to do most of the work and then get someone else to do the last bit - I see no point in handing someone a completely unbroken pony when I can easily do the first bits - getting him used to the harness, pulling tyres etc. And yes, I did read Sally Walronds book (about 8 times) before I started anything.

I did get a bit stuck after the tyre pulling - wasn't sure about what to do next - but I moved yards and someone there had broken loads of driving horses. So she showed me what to do next - pulling logs and harrows.

Moved yards again(!):rolleyes: , so lost my on-hand instruction! But was told there was no need to send him away - that would probably unsettle him more. She said hes 'very well adjusted and sensible' and I'm more than capable of breaking him. Whether you agree with that or not is your opinion, but believe me, this lady knows what she's talking about and never just tells you what you want to hear!

I'm the first person to admit last weekend was a mess, but it all stemmed from the fact that too much was going on that he couldn't see. When I first had him in blinkers he used to look round all the time, but he seemed a lot more settled in the last few months. I think he'd be happier without them - he's not at all spooky, but I do know it's back to basics without them, as everything since tyre pulling has been done in blinkers, so he's never seen anything behind him.

My reasoning for wanting the harness to be quick release isn't because I'm intending to need it! What happened made me realise how bad an accident could be, and it's no fun coping with a frightened pony and having to undo 6 buckles to release the trap. And I think that goes for any horse - novice or experienced. I agree that leather harness could be cut so it's easier, but webbing is not going to give, no matter what. And as for cutting it - I'd be there all day!

So it's now back to the drawing board - getting the harness altered, getting the blinkers off, and going back to log pulling for a while. And you'll be pleased to know I am booking some lessons (was always going to before I actually get on board).

And Sally Walrond's book, whilst being very useful in some areas, I find has big gaps - like how to balance the trap, how should the shafts fit etc. No doubt I'll find it all out though ;)

[Sharon H]

How do your traces atatch to the swingle tree? Mostly the traces just hook over them so the only buckles you'd need to undo would be on the breeching straps, the shafts would just slide out of the tugs. It's a shame you're so far away, you'd be more than welcome to come and have a look around our yard.
Judging a vehicle's balance can be difficult. The shafts should be at such a height that they are more or less horizontal when they go through the tugs, if you have to have them sloping up or down in order to get them through the tugs then they need to be altered. It can be quite easy to raise them a bit, depending on the way the trap is built. You can put blocks under them. If you hold the shafts yourself, one in each hand and then get someone to sit in the trap, you should be able to balance them quite easily. If you find you cannot hold them up or you have to pull down on them really hard then the trap is not balanced. The shafts should just rest in the tugs when on the move. Obviously there will be a bit of movement but the trap shouldn't be see-sawing about all over the place. Your harness should have a sliding backband, that's the bit that the tugs are atatched to, this will help to compensate for the camber in the road or over uneven ground. The tugs themselves should be ideally in the middle of the pads and you should be able to adjust their height.
Don't forget that the balance of the trap will vary according to how many people are in it. You may find that the seat will slide to help you adjust the weight. If it doesn't you can put a block of wood or something in it to balance it up.
I still think it would pay you to get into contact with your local club. There's very often people who would love to have someone to accompany them on drives and rallies and such like and you can learn a lot for free! Even if you couldn't commit to helping someone else, it would be an education to spectate at club events and ask loads of questions. It's so much easier to learn things when you can actually see what's going on, rather than from a book.