Standing Martingale

[PonyMad25]

Hi everyone! Just wondered if you could offer me some advice? You may know already from previous posts of mine that my pony rears. To keep it short basically the last time he did it I had bad fall, lost my confidence completely and have not dared to ride him since. He has been seen by dentist, back specialist, farrier, vet and saddler to rule out pain (this resulted in early xmas pressie from OH which was a brand new saddle professionally fitted :)). I have been doing lots of groundwork with him and my confidence is coming back slowly and he has improved loads (reared on the ground as well but has not done that for ages) - yippeeeee! I am aching to get back in the saddle but at the moment I know I would be too nervous and he would sense it. He is quite insecure at times (particularly when doing things away from his pony friends) and he needs me to be confident for him to feel confident.

I have had lots of advice from lots of different people about his rearing and someone said I should put a standing martingale on him to stop him going up. I looked this up on the internet and read all sorts of stuff saying that horses have been known to go over with a standing martingale on because they get up so far then realise their head movement in restricted and panic. I have also read that standing martingales are cruel - I do agree with the fact they could be cruel if not used properly but are they cruel in general?

If it really would stop him going up and not be considered cruel I would use it as I know I would be a lot more confident riding him if I knew he couldnt rear but surely things are not as easy as that??!!?

Also, I really want to get to the bottom of why he is doing it and actually solve the problem rather than just prevent it happening so I'm guessing a standing martingale isn't the answer? But maybe it would help along the way??? Ummm...I don't know???!!!

Thanks x

[pineapple]

hi,
im not sure why you horse is rearing and in what suituations.....
but i have been having lots of problems... if you read my posts... with my sister and her horse. he wears a standing martingale basicly because he walks around like a giraffe and it is on quite short but he other day he still managed to rear quite high with me and spin at the same time.
they say they stop horses rearing but i think they just alter the horses balance, one he gets used to the feeling of the martingale then he can still rear. it does help horses who carry their head to high though...

[Palomino Mare]

if you look up my threads then you will see i have a die hard rearer too.

someone suggested that i put a standing martingale on my horse - i told them to f off. please please dont do this to your horse - you are right it will make things worse and your horse will panic and fall over.

i'm afraid i cant offer you a soluition to the rearing but a standing martingale is the worst.

[Bobbin]

You may find he used it once, now senses he scares you so in a way feels unsure of you so now just uses it all the time. I think I'd forget anything like the martingale and try and find an instructor who is willing to work through the problems with you, even if that means sitting on his back and riding him through it. My old horse although never went fully up used to bounce and nap both on the ground and under saddle. It was a confidence issue which was quickly rectified with a new more confident owner. My pony on occassion has a bouncing fit when she in tantruming or excited but I just find it hillarious as I trust the old goat.

[jaydevon]

I Agree with every one... no standing martingale, with horses that rear putting any type of gadgets on them can often make them worse, a couple of reasons being....
1) it is something else to fight against
2) when it comes into use it can make the horse panic and adjust there balance.

a horse that rears i dont think you would ever be able to say it would never do it again, but you are right in wanting to get to the bottom of it...

is it just a napping rear? id never hit a horse for rearing as this is asking them to go up again,

i would suggest sitting it out, although i have found witn my mare knowing when she was going to nap i (at the end of the lane) started to ride her more forward about 5 strides away, she hesitated but because i was pushing her on so hard she went without napping again.

i would not suggest trying the following unless you really do know what you are doing... but often a horse wont go up if it can not see above its self, you can get driving blinkers that slightly cover the top of the eye... this is something im going to be trying with my mare... on an 8am on a sunday morning with some one on foot!
i dont think i will ever cure her, but im aiming to prevent it if that makes sence?

[Pink's lady]

Like others said - a standing martingale will have no effect, or even make it worse.

You would be better to have a plan for how to deal with the rear - you can always feel when they are about to do it.

They can't rear unless their hing quarters are right underneath them. It would be well worth teaching him to 'disengage' his hind end and also to have a method to force him to disengaed his quarters. If you can get him to bring his nose around to your knee he CAN'T rear.

[wildponies]

Echo Jaydevon & Pinkslady. Anticipate the rear. Push them through it if you can, i rode a friends horse of mine on a hack as he always reared (napping) in the same place, just at the end of the drive. She was starting to lose her nerve. I trotted him straight through it one day, now she always does it and worked a treat!

[PonyMad25]

Thank you everyone for your advice - it's definately a big NO to the standing martingale idea! I think I will just carry on working on his insecurities and improving his confidence and mine and see what happens. Lots of groundwork for now until I get confident enough to ride him again.

Thanks x

[Afellpony]

I agree with others here who say not to use a standing martingale. Have you had the vet check the horse's back or mouth. When riding a horse that rears, you must push him forward energetically and keep him going forward. If you feel the horse hesitate, push him on then they cant rear (theoretically)!!
When you've got him going forward, lots of circles, large and small and changes of rein, changes of pace within the pace. Lots of things that he has to concentrate on helps to take their mind off rearing. Dont let him stop, keep him moving and listening to you if you can.When he's done this for about 15 minutes, stop the 'lesson', get off and put him in a stable if he's kept stabled, or field if he lives out.

[sj2007]

hi, i used to use a standing martingale on my horse.

He used to do quite large spooks and nearly knock my teeth out! The standing was only ever loose enough to come into play when his head was at a seriously high angle, he has since stopped doing this so i no longer use it. In this circumstance i think standing martingales are really useful.

However, i think using one to prevent rearing may cause panic and as you said may encourage the horse to go over backwards.

Sounds like you are already doing a good job with him, if he is improving you must be doing something right without the use of the standing martingale.

Good luck :)

[puzzles]

I agree with others here who say not to use a standing martingale. Have you had the vet check the horse's back or mouth. When riding a horse that rears, you must push him forward energetically and keep him going forward. If you feel the horse hesitate, push him on then they cant rear (theoretically)!!
When you've got him going forward, lots of circles, large and small and changes of rein, changes of pace within the pace. Lots of things that he has to concentrate on helps to take their mind off rearing. Dont let him stop, keep him moving and listening to you if you can.When he's done this for about 15 minutes, stop the 'lesson', get off and put him in a stable if he's kept stabled, or field if he lives out.

Ditto.

Rearing is one of those vices that is practically impossible to 'cure, because the causes of it are hard to find.

I would never, ever use a standing martingle as physically trying to stop him will not stop him wanting to rear, nor trying to. At best it will not stop him from rearing, and at worst it will cause more problems than it's worth and even harm your horse &/or make him worse. :-(
Why does your horse feel so ignored and misunderstood by you that he feels he has to resort to rearing in order to be heard?!

Good luck!

:p

xx

[PonyMad25]

puzzles - how rude are you?!!! My pony most definately not ignored and I am doing all I can to understand him thank you very much. What with him being a pony and me being a human it may take a while for me to understand him but I will keep on trying. Yet another forum I will no longer use because of people like yourself.

[jaydevon]

puzzles - how rude are you?!!! My pony most definately not ignored and I am doing all I can to understand him thank you very much. What with him being a pony and me being a human it may take a while for me to understand him but I will keep on trying. Yet another forum I will no longer use because of people like yourself.

if only they could talk (our horsies)

[sj2007]

puzzles - how rude are you?!!! My pony most definately not ignored and I am doing all I can to understand him thank you very much. What with him being a pony and me being a human it may take a while for me to understand him but I will keep on trying. Yet another forum I will no longer use because of people like yourself.

I think you have shown what a good horse person you are just by asking for advice and trying to develop a better understanding between you and your pony, i think most other people will recognize this to.

best of luck

[EmmaRotherham]

I'm sure curly could give you a huge long list of reasons why NOT to use one on a horse that rears..

[skips and soda]

Guys, please lets not have another thread closed because of arguing. Maybe we should all express our opinions veeeery tactfully and if it's something we wouldn't want aimed at us we shouldn't post it.

My old pony reared with me twice-both whilst out hunting as he was extremely excited and we had been cut up going into a fence. Just try and push him through it and keep him moving and working. Try and keep him busy with leg yielding and flexing and ride movements like serpentines rather tan just wandeering, as this will keep him busy and will give him less time to think about misbehaving etc. If you feel one coming on then try not to hang onto his mouth, but relax your hands and push him forward. Sometimes using one leg then the other alternately helps, although it depends on the individual horse and rider.

Don't put him in a standing martingale, he will still be able to rear and personally I don't really like them. Affects their balance a bit and if he was to trip he would probably just go straight down because the standing martingale would prevent him from reaching his neck out to balance himself. I knew a girl whose horse reared and she put him in a standing martingale. We advised against it but she thought it would work. The horse still reared and out on a hack it tripped, couldn't regain its balance and went staright down. She nearly got crushed and the horse has got scarred knees.
I know they should be able to stretch neck out a bit if used properly and on loosest setting, but quite oftne when people use gadgets like this they have them very tight as that is the only way they will make the slightest bit of difference. (Not saying you would do this, just what sometimes happens).

Also, echo sj2007. You made the effort to admit you weren't sure and asked for advice before doing everything. If that doesn't show a good horse person then I don't know what does. Nobody learns without asking and you did the right thing. You certainly didn't deserve quite such harsh words as you have received. Don't leave the forum because of one thing. Ignore petty comments and take the good, useful and constructive advice away with you. :)

[puzzles]

puzzles - how rude are you?!!! My pony most definately not ignored and I am doing all I can to understand him thank you very much. What with him being a pony and me being a human it may take a while for me to understand him but I will keep on trying. Yet another forum I will no longer use because of people like yourself.

:o I didn't mean that in a rude way Ponymad - just me typing faster than my brain is thinking, without any thought to how a newbie might take it. :rolleyes:
It wasn't a go at you literally ignoring your horse at all! What I mean is that there is a problem which you (understandably!) haven't yet found the cause of, so until the trigger is taken away/resolved your horse could well continue to behave in this way if he still sees reason to, from his point of view.

I hope I don't normally come across as that rude without realising! :eek:

:p

Good luck!

xx

[lachlanandmarcu]

My horse will occasionally rear if he is in an exciting situation and is being prevented from moving forward. So for him, the thought process is I want to go forward, she wont let me, all I can do is go upwards.

So, when in the exciting situations, we dont stand still for long!, I keep him moving, even if its only small circles. Once he's tired, he gives up on the idea!

So the advice from the others on keeping his mind on other things and keeping doing other movements is a great one I think.

Horses are really strong and no martingale etc will ever stop them rearing if they want to, so agree on the coments re that.

well done for asking for advice and good luck with working with your horse....

[jUmPingIsLifE]

Standing martingales are a fine piece of equipment but I would NEVER put one on a horse that is known to rear. That is not what they are ment to be used for and they shouldn't be used in that manor (to keep a horse from rearing).

Does your pony give you any indication of the rear? If you can pinpoint what happens before he rears it will help you to prevent the behavior. There are two things that can be done that dont hurt a horse (like hitting between the ears).
1) If you can, get you pony to move fowards, they only rear when they lose their foward momentum. Any time you feel a rear could be comming on push into trot or even canter.
2) Horses are unable to rear (or its at least a lot harder for them to rear) if their is a bend to their spin. Bend your horse on a very small circle. and Put him to work on a small circle, do figure 8's. But still ask your horse to move FOWARD through it all.

If you can pinpoint his behavior leading up to the rear it can help you find out why the rear occurs and what to do to prevent him from rearing. Autumn would rear on and off, the cause was always fear (crossing water was a huge one). So I would push him fowards and BEFORE he decided he had gone far enough to stop and rear I would stop him myself and give him a pat. If i thought I could put my leg on and ask him to take another step I would if not I would work him on a circle where he was comfortable working and then slowly get closer to the water. He wouldn't even notice we were getting closer until I stoped.

[TheHoglet]

not sure if it would help, i've got my pony in one and he's only ever had one tiny mini rear because my mams horse ran into him on a hack.
i use it because he is sometimes prone to the occasionaly naughty bolt on hacks and a running martingale dosnet work because he has a weid shape neck .
i wouldnt say they were cruel, skittles has gone in one for years and still loves being worked, but any peice of tack can be cruel if it is used in the wrong mannor.
i once hacked out with a girl and her horse reared and fell on top of her, i think she had it in a standing martingale, TBH i dont think much can stop a horse from going up if it sets it's mind to it after all they are massive strong animals. it will probably take alot of ground work and schooling to teach your horse not to rear; what about getting some lessons- that way you can build your confidance up, you will be in the hands of an expirianced person and they minght beable to help you with this rearing problem

good luck xx

[lynzi]

standing martingales are more likely to unbalance your horse when it rears! and cause him to fall backwards which isn't good!!!!

i would just suggest changing your horses feed, doing groundwork and get your horse relaxed before you get on his back, get back and teeth checked!!

loads of things can make horses rear!! try and find out why!

x