Update and question about etiquette in lessons.

[Nazdaq]

Hi all, so had another lesson today.
Now there is a new girl in my group lessons who is new to riding and she has trouble controlling her pony/getting him going/getting him to do what she wants.
RI obviously has to spend time with her walking alongside, chasing the pony with a whip and suchlike.
So there is me on Napoleon and two other girls on bigger ploddier cobby types. I am sandwiched inbetween them as that is the order that RI put us in for the 'ride'. Now we were supposed to be trotting large and that is fine by me, Napoleon loves that and goes lovely. The horse in front however, not going lovely at all. My dillema is this: I try my best to stay in order, half-halt Napoleon to keep him away from the horse in front etc. but the horse in front is sooooo slow that half-halting doesn't work, Napoleon is like "I am going as slow as I can, any slower and we would be walking!!" and I agree with him, we shouldn't have to go slower.
Now, in the past I have been told off in lessons for circling away in order to create space between me and the horse in front (as this is the only other option I see of keeping away from the horse in front when half-halting has done all it can) so what is a girl to do?!?!
Whose responsibility is it, should the girl who rides lead file take more of the flak and work harder to go faster, or is it entirely my fault and I am a crap rider becuase I can't slow my pony down??? :confused:
Also I don't understand why the RI puts me (fastest horse) behind a slow coach, surely I should be lead file as I can get active walk and so on encouraging the other horses behind to pick up the pace?

Also there was another incident in which the lead file plowed into the girl who has trouble controlling her horse, that horse backed up, lead file's horse backed up into me and I was like argh, where do I go...please don't let me get kicked! :eek: I tried to kick Napoleon on and move to the inside of the school, but bless him he got a bit confused and I think he thought "why?" and just stood there. Then RI comes over and makes some snide remark and I was like well what about the other girls, tell them off too they were in front!!
Am I overreacting here, I just feel like becuase I am the most 'experienced' in the group that I always get responsibility for anything that goes wrong and it's always my fault when it shouldn't be. The other girls need to learn what to do in these situations too and it shouldn't always be me getting told off for 'doing the wrong thing' at least I am trying to make active decisions and telling Napoleon what to do, not sitting there like a lemon with reins as long as washing lines letting my pony crawl along at a snail's pace and not using the stick or anything.

PLEASE DON'T FLAME ME FOR 'BEGINNER-BASHING' LIKE TWO WEEKS AGO, I KNOW I SHOULD HAVE SYMPATHY FOR THESE GIRLS AS I WAS LIKE THEM ONCE AS WELL, AND TO A CERTAIN EXTENT I DO, BUT THEY NEED TO MAKE AN EFFORT AS WELL.

P.S: Also the newest girl who is struggling has been told to have private lessons instead to 'catch up' and then rejoin the group, and she only had one private lesson and now she thinks for some reason that she is OK to ride with us when she can't even keep her horse on the track or walking or anything. And when someone tells her to do something (ie: RI saying shorten your reins and showing her what contact feels like) she pretends to listen and then still goes round with her reins as long as ever.

Sorry, Sorry, Sorry. I am just frustrated. At least when I was first starting out I took the private lessons for a long time before joining a group and at least I listened when someone told me something and corrected it straight away. Grrr. :(

P.P.S: On the positive I cantered again, down the long side of the school. Napoleon is so bouncy though I automatically went into two-point....opps. :D

Oh also the reason I am in this group is becuase it is a 'beginner' group and the next group up 'intermediate' are cantering round and jumping in lessons and I am not ready for that and I will not be able to keep up if I change to that group.

[S_F_S]

"Whose responsibility is it"
In my opinion, in riding school situations, particulary those that involve novices as you have described, the responsibility lies entirely with the instructor - not to let people get into situations where they do not know how to rectify them themselves.

It might sound like the easy conclusion to jump to - but I would really look at finding lessons somewhere else. You don't seem to be getting much benefit from experiences like these, and various snippets of your post (chasing horses around with whips?!) does alarm me quite a lot!

[Pibstar]

hi!! i know there are not too many schools where you are so know you have little choice.

I would say yes you should be leading. Have you explained how you feel to the RI? Is there a reason she has explained for you going in the middle?

Again it is the RI job to control situations I cant see why she/he would have a go at you? Are you sure your not taking it too personal? either way just ignore it and think "soon i'll be out of this group - jumping!!!" The more you ignore it the more your progress the better groups your be in.

Its a difficult transition when learning as there is always some one better and some one worse. - I remember when you were told to leave the group lesson and go back to 121.

Naz - I can really hear your confidence growing - WHICH IS BRILLANT!! I am truely pleased for you. :):) cantering around:D Just try and not take it so seriously remember to have fun :D Had a hack where you are yet?????

[vonandiz]

Have you asked your RI about what she wants you to do in situations like this? (Was it the one you had problems with a few weeks ago?) Its also just a thought but maybe everyone else in the group is feeling the same and comes out of the lesson thinking "Now why is she (RI) getting at me".

Are you happy and comfortable in the beginners group? Do you feel that you are still learning/progressing or are you consistently feeling that you are not getting as much teaching as you should? Maybe a few months of private lessons will have you cantering around feeling in control and then you could move up a group. At the very least you might get lessons where you are getting what you want from them.

Well done on the cantering - it sounds like you may have cracked the transition. Try to relax - it should be fun most of the time. :D

[Nazdaq]

Thank you, yes I agree it is the RI's responsibility.

Pibs: the RI was not the one having a go at me it was the other girl (the one who was lead file) I gave the girls a lift back into town (in exchange for ££!) and she was kind of hinting that I should have done more to stay away from her horse (I think she should also do more to get her horse going faster!)

Also there was no reason I could think of for making me go in the middle, several different RIs have done this recently but with the others I can get away with sneakily going in front later because we were working in open order, but because today we were meant to be working as a ride I couldn't break ranks at all and it was very frustrating.

I went on a hack two weeks ago (posted about it I think) it was great I trotted through muddy puddles in the rain uphill and I also cantered and I wasn't scared at all! I loved it!! (I am also in love with Napoleon, he's a 14.2hh haffy...love him!) :D

Von: This RI is indeed the one I had trouble with a few weeks ago (the one who critisised me for not being able to get on from the ground) who I might add contradicted herself today by saying "you should always use the block" and making us all use the block to get on....errr duh! make up your mind woman. :rolleyes:

I am happy and confident in this group, although at the same time I do feel perhaps I am not progessing in the canter as fast as I should be becuase no-one else is ready to try circles in canter or anything else, when really I should be attempting that soon.

I will seriously think about changing to private lessons when everyone goes home for the holidays, I think I will only be able to get in about one more 'group' lesson anyways because the other girls are flat broke and not keen at all.

Thank you again for the constructive comments. :D :D

[cvb]

Whose responsibility is it, should the girl who rides lead file take more of the flak and work harder to go faster, or is it entirely my fault and I am a crap rider becuase I can't slow my pony down???

There is more than one question here. Who has the responsibility is one question - and the instructor is in charge of the lesson so is responsible from that point of view. But she is not riding each horse hence does not directly have the ability to manage the *delivery* of what is going on.

It is the RI who decides on the order to place people. But the people themselves also have a responsibility - all of them in my view. This group is a beginners group, so they may have a more limited ability to deliver on that need. But a rider MUST take responsibility for their horse IMHO. And within the context of a shared space, that means riding responsibly with respect to the other horses.

High horse rant aside ;) I would agree with the suggestion to ask the RI. It gives you a chance to try and have a dialogue/discussion rather than a monologue (her talking at you). If she doesn't react well to that, however much you like the group, you need to think carefully about whether this is someone you can learn with in my view ?

[Nazdaq]

thank you cvb, that makes sense. I shall ask whoever the RI is next week (may not be the same person you see!) what I should be doing in this situation and whether I am allowed to circle away or not. Because I have been told off for circling away in the past to make more space between my pony and the horse in front I am not sure whether I should be doing that or not. But half-halting only does so much lol. I half-halt my pony all the time and ride him right deep into the corners to try to create more space, which does work a little but we soon catch up again lol.

I will also ask whether I can go in front. It's not a problem when there is only two riders (which there may only be two of us next lesson) in which case I will be in front, but when it is 3 or more in the group then I get put in the middle and end up with this problem!

Is there anything else I can do to 'ride responsibly' or am I doing all that I can at the moment with the situation I have been put in? Thanks for the reply. :D

[cvb]

Its a difficult one - cos as "Middle" rider you have to watch both person in front AND person behind in relation to yourself. So you can't throw in sneaky transitions to walk while the instructor is busy - plus with only 3 of you she is always likely to be looking enough in your direction to spot it !

It sounds like you are doing everything you can - riding into corners, slowing up as much as possible, etc

I don't advise what I did at a Pony Club camp many years ago when we were practicing a drill ride - I had a hissy fit and told the instructor in no uncertain terms that if I *could* canter any slower then I would be - the fact I wasn't was because I couldn't ! (it was said quite strongly and I may even have stormed off). However it did have the required effect - he changed the order and stopped nagging me.

[Nazdaq]

haha that's a great story, I was really tempted to say something but I don't want people to hate me lol.

Yes you are right about watching the person behind as well, and I do regularly turn to check that they are OK. If they are falling behind then I slow up to let them catch up. Lead file girl doesn't do this though (and she got told off for it today and rightly so!) but she doesn't seem to be aware that she is doing all the wrong things in terms of riding considerately. She lets her horse drop suddenly out of trot whenever he wants so the rest of us have to be quick to spot it to avoid going over our ponie's heads! and then she moans that we are too close to her!!! Grrrr it's because you are going too SLOWLY!

I have taken to standing in my stirrups on the downward transition from trot to walk to avoid falling off lol becuase it's so sudden when this girl stops. :p Thanks again for the help I am glad that I seem to be OK with my riding and what I am doing (and glad that my riding is not the problem) :D

[GG36]

Unfortunately I have also been the poor person on a ned that just didn't want to pick up speed towards the end of a group lesson and luckily enough a lot of the work we do is in open order so it's not a prob & folk circle or come past. I would have thought you should be praised for taking the initiative & keeping your horse out of kicking range by moving out of file so to speak.

[joosie]

It sounds like a combination of several things - bad teaching on the part of your RI, poor organisation of riding groups, and also that you are at a level in your riding when a series of private lessons could benefit you a lot more than groups. When you've mastered trot and are ready to improve your canter, you're not going to learn anything from just cantering to the back of the ride once or twice in a group lesson. You seem enthusiastic about your riding and confident in your ability, so I'd say take the plunge and go private for a while.

[Nazdaq]

thank you both of you, that makes me so happy to hear other people say I sound confident. :D :D

GG36: Yes I would have thought I would of got praise for that as well, however I have gotten told off for it in the past so now I don't dare do it, lol. I do circle away if it's open order, but if we are riding as a ride then I don't want to in case I get told off. Perhaps I should just do it anyways and then say to the RI "well it's better then getting kicked!" next time. :p :D

Joosie: yes you are right, I need private lessons to learn circles etc. in canter. :D I am taking the plunge in a couple of weeks time (perhaps one, perhaps two depending on what other people are doing riding-wise) :)
Thankyou.

[GG36]

If finances allow a private lesson I'd say go for it. I have a half hour private during the week & a group lesson at weekend & get different things out of each of them. It sounds as if your confidence is building so if you get a couple of privates under your belt you may well be ready to progress to the next group again. I think it's very brave of you to ride in any group lesson - it took me ages to pluck up the courage as I was really worried about not being able to keep up with the group ability wise & I'd get sniggered at.

[Nazdaq]

thank you, I did actually get kicked out of a group back in April for not being able to canter (ie: not keeping up) but now I can and it's great. :D I am very open to being considerate to riders who can't keep up/need more attention from the RI (I don't mind, I can work in open order) but I do get frustrated when I am stuck in a 'ride' behind a slow rider who makes no effort to speed up or anything and is unaware that she is the cause of the problem; blaming it on everyone else. :rolleyes:

It's just being stuck between a rock and a hard place (quite literally in some respects) I am all for helping other people who are at an earlier stage then me in thier riding but I just wish people would take advice and what the RI is telling them on board (not carry on doing it wrong and try to correct it) and also pay attention to the effect that thier riding is having on everyone else (and not be in denial that they are causing a problem)

Thanks again for all the help. The finances will allow for privates so I am going to do that week after next. (Next week is myself and one other rider so that should be OK) :D

[cwb]

Don't blame the rider too much - horses do not like being in the lead - I had a similar lesson where I was always running up to the lead horse who wouldn't go faster for its rider - so I suggested Tetley should go in front and the RI agreed, but then Tetley wouldn't even overtake the others!! Sooo embarrassing :o

[GG36]

Well then, I admire you even more for carrying on learning - I think I'd have had my confidence shattered to the point I'd have given up (or at least thought very seriously about carrying on). Hope you have loads of fun over the next couple of weeks and then the confidence will build even more :D

[Crazyhorse]

Although it might be quite frustrating, it will teach you as much to be behind somebody then being lead file. The aids for slowing can be a lot more difficult to master than those for pushing the pace on. You get the chance to play around slightly with using your seat etc without anyone knowing! I imagine a lot comes down to the horses used in the lesson. I'm sure most of us have been in the situation where we are given the least forward going of the horses in a group lesson when regardless of what you try it just isn't happening. If these horses are always kept at the back then they will become less forward thinking and blindly follow, so in that respect it is good to mix up the order of the horses. Also, as the more experienced person compared to the very beginners it will be frustrating but, as you say, you need to think back to a few months ago when you were in the same position. Be careful not to get stuck in a rut with these lessons. It is very hard to improve if you are not continually challenged, which may happen if the lessons are aimed at those less able in the group.

[Nazdaq]

thank you everyone, I think I do definetly need to change to private lessons becuase I don't think I am being challenged at all now that I have gotten over my fear of cantering completely. That was the last thing holding me back in beginner's lessons, and now I have conquered that I think I need to learn to canter in a controlled way (20m circles etc.) then I can join an intermediate group. Thank you again everyone. :D