sitting trot and leg yield in dressage?

[laura jeanne]

I just would like to check with other dressage people about this. We are taught for sitting trot to sit equally on both seat bones with each step. So we don't do what you commonly read about how to do sitting trot where you move the left and right seat bones separately. Just tuck your whole seat under on each beat. It works fine but I'm wondering why sitting in dressage would be different.

Also, I kind of learned on my own to leg yield after watching one of the Sally Swift tapes where she has someone just sit still and move their seat bone over and that presses your leg up against the horse. So now I'm told to weight my inside leg on every sit beat and the horse feels that and moves over. I can't do it! so far anyway. Is this the way everyone else does a leg yield and sitting trot?

[Skyhuntress]

The idea behind moving each seat bone independently is that you are following the shoulder movement and can sit a bit more deeper. However, if you think about a sitting trot, and if you're doing it right, your hips will naturally follow the movement of the horse, causing your hip and seat bones to move. Be aware that your hips and pelvis have to be free to move in order to have an effective sitting trot.

I'm not sure what you're saying with the leg yield? Are you trying to do it at the posting trot? It's easier to do in the sitting trot. The rider should sit fairly balanced (although with a young/green horse, you might need to exagerate your weight on to one side) with your weight shifted slightly toward your desired direction. Use your inside leg to get him moving away, use your outside rein to control the shoulder, and use your outside leg to keep him balanced. Make sure you keep forward impulsion, and keep control of the outside shoulder.

[Bay Mare]

If you move the seat bones as one you're going to be blocking one side of the horse. As the horse's back moves in two halves it's much easier to absorb the movement and, therefore, not block the horse if you're using your seat bones independantly. Using this with the flexing of the back means that you will sit stiller and not bounce.

You shouldn't be 'following' the movement as that means that you're behind and trying to catch up but should be moving with the horse (letting the horse move you!). Also tucking your butt under/sitting on your pockets means that you're not sitting lightly, that your weight is going towards the back of the saddle and also means that you can't use your back to absorb the movement. In a sensitive horse this can be enough to make them hollow against you.

Using the seat bones independantly is also less tiring for the rider which is always a plus!

Have a look at the 'Kinder Way' bit of the main NR site which explains it better than me :)

[Fanshawe]

Totally agree with the sitting trot info. As for the leg yield I apply the inside leg strongly (75%) when the inside leg is moving forward (to get them to move over) then 25% when the outside leg is (to keep them moving forward as well). When posting this translates to 75% when rising and 25% when sitting. Think someone shouting at you soft,hard,soft,hard!!!! Reins control the direction of the neck and head and outside leg is on the side but not applying pressure. Important that you sit/angle correctly to avoid front legs crossing but not back legs and not too much rein for the same reasons. Hope that helps!

[laura jeanne]

Lesson today-
Just to clarify about the sitting trot. The tucking under movement does not involve actually doing anything with your seat which stays soft. It is more your chest and middle that gives a little down/back movement. I got it much better today since I made sure that my lower back and seat were completely relaxed. I think I have answered my own question here because if your seat and hips are soft, even if you feel that you are equally weighting both seat bones, one is probably moving with the horses's hips too.

I also figured out what she was telling me for leg yield. A little extra weight on the inside stirrup lightens that seat bone and puts a little more on the outside, plus the horse feels the inside leg more and so gets a cue to move over.

Thanks everyone! I hope this all makes sense, it does to me anyway. By the end of my lesson, my horse was going softly around into all the corners. My RI also told me to give with the inside rein every once in a while which lets him put his head down a bit. Felt so good today!!

[Skib]

Laura jeane I wrote you something yesterday about the whole thing being a question of language and how it was used. But you found that for yourself. I am glad the lesson went well.
I have notes on how I was taught leg yield and my reading of Sally Swift which is much the same.
But I think every RI teaches in a different way, different circumstances etc. I have in my notes that the weight should be on the inside seatbone (putting more weight down that leg should increase the weight that side not reduce it surely?) But this is not the only cue that tells the horse to put its inside leg across. And I have an additonal note that since I always have more weight on my right seat bone than my left, for ME the thing to do is concentrate on keeping the weight even!

I learn everything in walk first and it is broken down into many parts. What to do to create the bend. When to ask for the movement, how to keep the horse's body straight while you create and control the diagonal movement of the horse. So I am positioning and using 2 hands, 2 legs, seat, shoulders and that is why I have to make notes when I get home from the lesson! I got so muddled and it always takes me ages to get it together as one fluid movment.
So perhaps there is an advantage in doing it as you are doing it, in trot, all compressed into one simple thing? Particularly if the horse already knows the movement and responds to that?

I think it is really important if you have a good teacher to do as she says and not worry too much about why things happen?

[laura jeanne]

Hi Skib, (I didn't get a message from you yesterday)
If your weight is even in the saddle and you press down into the left stirrup, you seat bone on the left side will go up. (you can see what I mean by just trying it sitting in a chair)

My RI also broke the movements down the way you describe and I practiced it a lot in walk before going into trot. She basically let me practice a bunch in walk without saying much while I was trying to put it all together. I think the key was that I was just not sitting evenly. I was also practicing my Mary Wanless bearing down bit which frees up your shoulders/arms/hands to be very soft and following and have a nice light contact on the reins. I can't wait for Sunday to try it all again.

My horse also knows when he is looking good and I had done his mane up in pony tails - an attempt at a lattice braid which I ran out of time to complete before my lesson time. heh

[Skib]

Sorry laura jeanne - No I didnt send you what I wrote, as I thought it stupid to intervene with what your RI was showing you. Many roads lead to Rome.

I cant cope with left and right - inside and outside is easier. What you posted sounded to be the opposite of what I learned when I did it. That doesnt matter, but it is so.
Again we have this problem of language used by RIs. Dropping the weight into your leg isnt the same as pushing down on the stirrup either. We dont do that.
The difference is between more gravity weighting your leg and hip down but the leg remaining supple, and what you describe which is the stirrup iron supporting that leg and so lifting your seat up?

I have just checked Leg Yield in Sally Swift - if you have the book you will see - and my feeling is (I may be wrong) that what she teaches is what I learn.
And that probably cant be combined with Mary Wanless bearing down - I know you are a fit, slim, athletic rider, just the sort Mary Wanless would like, and that is why, if you are getting on well with your present teacher, I think you should follow what she says - bearing in mind that it wont always be in line with what is in one particular book. Because the books themselves do not agree.

[laura jeanne]

I was afraid to take my lesson today in case Friday was just a fluke and I would be all over the place again today. But no, I can still do everything I was doing on Friday! I had the 3rd lesson in a row for my RS horse, but he was just excellent for me. I did lots of sitting trot this time and did one practice dressage test (the very beginner w/t one) that I chickened out of doing in the show a couple of weeks ago. I would totally do it now if I had the chance. I think we are going to do a practice show some Sunday soon with all my RI's students.

Oh, and my first actual honest-to-goodness real live carriage driving lesson will be this Thursday!!!! :D:D

[dressagexreo]

The idea behind moving each seat bone independently is that you are following the shoulder movement and can sit a bit more deeper. However, if you think about a sitting trot, and if you're doing it right, your hips will naturally follow the movement of the horse, causing your hip and seat bones to move. Be aware that your hips and pelvis have to be free to move in order to have an effective sitting trot.

I'm not sure what you're saying with the leg yield? Are you trying to do it at the posting trot? It's easier to do in the sitting trot. The rider should sit fairly balanced (although with a young/green horse, you might need to exagerate your weight on to one side) with your weight shifted slightly toward your desired direction. Use your inside leg to get him moving away, use your outside rein to control the shoulder, and use your outside leg to keep him balanced. Make sure you keep forward impulsion, and keep control of the outside shoulder.

Remember that a horse keeps his balance with his neck. So, if you throw a horse off balance their necks are automatically going to come up. To keep them in "dressage frame balance" you need to stay centered. You are correct that when a horse is younger you should throw your weight to one side so he leans the other way, BUT you should always lean inside if your going to lean anywhere because you want all the weight possible on that outside hind leg so the inside can swing up and under.