What can you do with a foundered horse?

[Bubblepony]

If a horse gets lami and its pedal bones do rotate and "founder" what are the consequences on its future working life? i imagine that jumping and concussive activities are out the window but if they are really good and sound and have hard feet could you still hack them out and if so could you have a trot or canter on soft ground or would you not risk it? How much hacking do you do with your horse if it has had this and how do they take it?

[Yann]

Depends how well done and successful the rehabilitation is and whether the horse is then kept in a way that avoids future problems. In theory it should be possible to completely fix a laminitic, but I'm not sure how often that's always truly acheived. But there are plenty of horses out there that have had attacks and returned to pretty much normal work.

[Bubblepony]

i mean a "foundered" horse in which the pedal bones have ended up sinking down. Im talking about cases where there is no reason the horse should get laminitis again as the cause has been completely removed and the horse is totally sound. Obviously these horses have permanent damage in that their pedal bones have sunk. I want to know what sort of work these horses can be reasonably expected to do.

[Afellpony]

Once the peddle bone has rotated and dropped, I'm sure you can get 'special' shoeing but I dont think the pony can be ridden. From what I understand, if the peddle bone has rotated, a pad can be put on the sole of the foot and the horse/pony has to be shod. May be it can be ridden, it might depend on how much the peddle bone has rotated and dropped. Not having experience of this unfortunte situation myself, I'm not 100% sure about the riding. It might be worth having a word with your vet.

[Nookster]

I thought it was all to do with the regrowth?

Ie a horse can founder and within the regrowth process / trimming etc the hoof and pedal bone can be realigned. with full re growth taking 6 months or more isn't it really if they actually make it that far in comparision to the pain?

I can only speak from my darling chinook who founder in both fores. The pain became so much that he sadly had to be put to sleep.

[Bubblepony]

I dont think that is right at all Afellpony!

[Bubblepony]

as far as I understood the pedal bone can reallign but once it has foundered (dropped) it will always be dropped? The horse in question experienced the lami and consequent founder years ago and is now sound but xrays show the bone is still dropped and very slightly rotated but improoving all the time with every xray. The horse is sound, totaly pain free and really enjoys going out but obviously we dont want to overdo things. I was wondering about other peoples experiences with foundered pedal bones and what they get up to with their horses once they are totally sound and recovered.

[Nookster]

Its great to hear of a case that made it through. Sadly never got that far with Chinook. Whats your vets advice on your riding query?

[Yann]

If the trim and nutrition are right there's no reason that I'm aware of that the founder can't be reversed and grown out. There are some good pics at www.hoofrehab.com to demonstrate this.

[**jet**]

ooo you learn lots on here i was always told once pedal bone dropped and rotated nothing vould be done but pts i know a girl had mare few years ago and that was the case

[Lgd]

My friend's Fell Pony was near to being PTS at the end of February this year. He had rotated his pedal bone so badly that it was on the sole and he was sinking as well as foundering. He had an emergency dorsal wall resection and remedial farriery. At the outset the vet thought best case scenario was sound for light hacking. It wasn't lami related - vet thinks traumatic damage to the sole set it all off.

This is him in August winning an affiliated Medium dressage test

http://groups.msn.com/upsaddle2/lgd.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=17103

I do have a copy of his xrays at home - will try and scan the before and after ones to show what can be done with a good vet and farrier.

[Bubblepony]

wow thanks everyone! our vet says if the horse is sound and happy to go hacking then go for it and use hoof boots just for the sake of safety. i guess every case is an individual but nobody has really been able to tell us what would be a good amount to aim for. I suppose taking it slowly is the idea.

[Yann]

Hoof boots, particularly with pads in will really keep the horse comfortable and protected and you'll find they're probably raring to go in them:) Lots of work in comfort is a really good idea on two fronts, firstly the stimulation will do the feet a world of good, and the exercise will help keep further metabolic problems at bay. We had a little laminitic pony on loan from our YO for a while, restricting her grazing and working the legs off her kept her fit and well.

[MelanieD]

Is the pony shod? Guessing not since you mention boots.

If not shod then you usually get a pretty good indication of whether pony is coping or not, and as long as pony is sound and keen to work and doesn't seem any worse after working or over the next few days then you most likely haven't overdone it. Just build up the work very gradually and back off straight away if there's any sign he's not happy.

[gingeremmie]

Flipping heck that was a quick recovery in your friend's horse lgd!

My boy had rotation in one front foot and slight sinkage in the other. That was last January. He came sound enough to do some light hacking in the summer, but went lame again in September. We still don't know the cause of that, xrays showed up that nothing was amiss in terms of everything being where it should have been in the foot.

He's sound again now and I want to bring him back into work again, however I want to do it properly and get him out and about in hand in long straight lines for a few weeks first. However the darkness and weather is conspiring against me, and so I will probably have to wait til next spring :( I don't see why he won't return to full soundness though as the xrays have shown that everything is where it should be now.

[eventerbabe]

If a horse gets lami and its pedal bones do rotate and "founder" what are the consequences on its future working life? i imagine that jumping and concussive activities are out the window but if they are really good and sound and have hard feet could you still hack them out and if so could you have a trot or canter on soft ground or would you not risk it? How much hacking do you do with your horse if it has had this and how do they take it?

my pony, Bonnie, had foundered in both front feet and rotated somewhere between 3 and 5 degrees. She never jumped anyway (too hyper!) but i wouldn't have risked that with her. She was schooling and hacking (on road and forest tracks) quite happily before she contracted grass sickness :( But i'd never have cantered her on the tracks, even when soft. I was neurotic about her feet.

echo Lgd, having an excellent vet and remedial farrier who communicated and worked together got my girl back on her feet. She was just about to move off heart bars when we lost her.

[eventerbabe]

Ie a horse can founder and within the regrowth process / trimming etc the hoof and pedal bone can be realigned. with full re growth taking 6 months or more isn't it really if they actually make it that far in comparision to the pain?


that is exactly what my farrier did. Working from the x-rays he trimmed her feet accordingly to realign the pedal bone. She had heart bars for support because of the rotation and foundering.

Im talking about cases where there is no reason the horse should get laminitis again as the cause has been completely removed and the horse is totally sound.
a horse that has rotated/sunk will be at risk from getting laminitis from ANY source so don't be naive in thinking you've removed source a so laminitis isn't a possibility. My mare started with laminitis due to stress. She then contracted it through concussion and then from cold legs/snow.