A BIT of advice please?

[BabyBear]

I'm totally confused:confused::confused:

I need a new bit for my boy!

He came with 3 bits - a loose ring (which is too big) and french link (also too big) and a flexi rubber mouth - which fits fine but I have NO control of him!

He is not a bad boy just VERY forward going! I'm looking for something that will give me more control and allow me to slow him by just giving a check on the rein as opposed to wrestling with him!

My only worry is my "novice" hands - my hands aren't the best - I do still fidget with the reins and my hands can be quite rigid and don't want to get a strong bit and then proceed to irritate him because of my inability to keep my hands still!

I've tried him on the loose ring but I still felt like I had no control and he was always shaking his head - not sure if this is because the bit was too big for him?

Any advice would be gratefully received!!:)

Kirstin

[perkypinky]

i m in favour of rubber pelhams - i used one on my strong loan pony - with roundings - my hand arent brilliant but i found that because to control was there i actually was a lot softer wth my hands - sorry if im on the wrong tack here and others think that they are not good with novice hands - just my experience :):):)

[BabyBear]

Thanks perkypinky - do you need the double reins for a pelham?

[Nik-n-Kia]

If you get rounding on it you dont need double reins.

Why not try a wilkie if your worried about your hands??

I have one now and I love it and he doesnt get jabbed in the mouth as it works on the poll before it works on the mouth.

Not severe but give control. Pelhams are great but if you jab them in the gob they know about it :o

What size of mouth is he hun???

Nikki xxxx

eta this is the bit I have http://www.thesaddleryshop.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=988 xxxx

[perkypinky]

not heard of a 'wilkie' before - sounds good though:) - see if you can borrow one before you buy.

[Portia]

www.neueschulebits.com

You could try ringing these people and have a chat with Heather, very knowledgable lady where bits are concerned.

[BabyBear]

If you get rounding on it you dont need double reins.

Why not try a wilkie if your worried about your hands??

I have one now and I love it and he doesnt get jabbed in the mouth as it works on the poll before it works on the mouth.

Not severe but give control. Pelhams are great but if you jab them in the gob they know about it :o

What size of mouth is he hun???

Nikki xxxx

eta this is the bit I have http://www.thesaddleryshop.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=988 xxxx


That looks quite similar to one of the ones he has (the one that doesn't fit!)

Not sure about the size of his mouth - what's the best way to measure? Do I just measure the bit that fits him?

Sorry to sound so dumb but this is all VERY new to me!

[Nik-n-Kia]

iits no bother hun!!!

the bits should have a number on the mouth piece that tells you the size.

I have the feeling that he will be a 5'' or a 51/2 as most 15hh horses are that size. Kia is a 51/2 inch.

Nikki xxxxx

[Palomino Mare]

a "bit" of advice - that made me laugh:)

not sure what advice to give you r.e. bits - is he too strong and using this against you or just too fast?

does he grind his teeth or chew his bit?

i can usually guess a horses size of bit by looking at their mouth but on his current bits there **should** be a size written on it. if not then just measure it with a ruler (in inches) and take the next size down - in quarters.

what height/breed is he?

[laceyfreckle]

lol just thought i;d mention my 12.3hh has a 5" bit does that mean she has a big gob??:eek:

bit off topic but it made me giggle:o

[BabyBear]

a "bit" of advice - that made me laugh:)

not sure what advice to give you r.e. bits - is he too strong and using this against you or just too fast?

does he grind his teeth or chew his bit?

i can usually guess a horses size of bit by looking at their mouth but on his current bits there **should** be a size written on it. if not then just measure it with a ruler (in inches) and take the next size down - in quarters.

what height/breed is he?


He's just too fast - doesn't really set against me - I just don't have any breaks!!

He is very mouthy with the bit and in general.

He's a 15.1h gypsy cob - if it matters he wears a full size bridle as he has a big head!

[Palomino Mare]

let me guess the faster he goes the more stressed you get and thus he goes faster and your councing around all over the place? if so, thats just like me, lol!!

lessons do help but if your both not comfortable in your bit then thats teh best starting point.

do you know if his bit is too high/low in his mouth?

my horse chews and grinds away and a loose ring french link works ok - tried a hanging cheek which was fine on hacks but not for schooling but i have just spent near enough £100 on this baby:
http://www.derbyhouse.co.uk/prodshow.asp?id=1010&cat=2&scats=50,18

havent tried it yet due to laziness/funny lump/moving yards but i will keep you posted!

as nikki said he sounds like he would be a 5 1/2 - if this is what he's got and it is too big then surely no smaller then a 5 1/4 unless he's midget mouth man:D

[BabyBear]

let me guess the faster he goes the more stressed you get and thus he goes faster and your councing around all over the place? if so, thats just like me, lol!!

lessons do help but if your both not comfortable in your bit then thats teh best starting point.

do you know if his bit is too high/low in his mouth?

my horse chews and grinds away and a loose ring french link works ok - tried a hanging cheek which was fine on hacks but not for schooling but i have just spent near enough £100 on this baby:
http://www.derbyhouse.co.uk/prodshow.asp?id=1010&cat=2&scats=50,18

havent tried it yet due to laziness/funny lump/moving yards but i will keep you posted!

as nikki said he sounds like he would be a 5 1/2 - if this is what he's got and it is too big then surely no smaller then a 5 1/4 unless he's midget mouth man:D


I don't get too stressed as he's not going to bolt but I find it difficult to slow him with my seat so when he's ignoring the half halts and I can't slow him with my seat we en up trotting around the arena at 100 mph!:)

Think one of the bits hangs too low which is why I changed to the flexi rubber thing will have a look on some websites to get some ideas - there are just soooo many to chose from!:eek:

[PatchyPony]

i m in favour of rubber pelhams - i used one on my strong loan pony - with roundings - my hand arent brilliant but i found that because to control was there i actually was a lot softer wth my hands - sorry if im on the wrong tack here and others think that they are not good with novice hands - just my experience :):):)


Im realising this is common problem with our coblets:o
having just got one of these all I can say is WOW! I was worried about my hands to, and I found that becasue the contact was so light I was able to really relax my hands and arms and do all the things my RI has been trying to get me to do and couldnt because I was rigid and fighting a tug of war! I use it with roundings.

I did try out a few before the rubber pelham and the best I got was with a magenis snaffle - but she did still lean on it and and tank off. Its quite a severe bit so Im happier with her in the rubber pelham going lightly if you know what I mean.

I tried a eggbut snaffle, loosering snaffle, hanging cheek french link, dr bristol, ported kimblewick, jointed kimblewick... RI said anything with a nutcracker action was a waste of time with her - so maybe see what your RI thinks before doing what i did and starting your own bit bank:o:D I do still have my flash on though as well as I was advised to keep it in place!;)

[BabyBear]

Thanks everyone - I've actually got a tack shop at my yard (how convenient) so may have a look tonight and see what they've got!

[Palomino Mare]

lol just thought i;d mention my 12.3hh has a 5" bit does that mean she has a big gob??:eek:

bit off topic but it made me giggle:o

i think so!! my 14.1 takes a 5 1/4

[RoughcutDiamond]

Glad to hear all going well Kirstin.

Here's how to correctly measure Casper for a bit:

"Use a piece of smooth round wood, eg a wooden spoon handle or piece of dowling, and two rein stops (rubber bands can be used but are slightly less acurate.) Put the wooden rod into your horses mouth, so that it just lifts the corners of his lips into no more than 2 wrinkles, and push the rein stops up to touch his lips on either side. Remove the wood, and measure the gap from the outside of the rein stops to give the correct bit size including the right amount of clearence for the bit. If you are between sizes (eg 5 1/4"), choose the smaller of the two bits (eg 5")." (thesaddleryshop.co.uk)

Sounds to me like it might be worth waiting for your RI to come out - they will be able to see any particular issues and advise you whether a change of bit is necessary/advisable. They will also be able to help you with changes of position, breathing, posture etc that will enable you to to school Casper to respond more to a shift in your weight rather than putting the emphasis on your hands, and certainly if this is not an option will advise what bit is worth trying.

It's such a complex subject and bits are not cheap - you could find yourself able to open a bit shop of your very own by the time you've found one which suits!!!

[BabyBear]

Thanks Allie!

I will try to measure him with the spoon but having seen what Fred done to Al's spoon not sure how successfull that will be:D

How's Davie doing without his buddy? And how's you're helium addiction?:)

[RoughcutDiamond]

Good point re spoon, just make sure you haven't stirred his feed first!

Davie is doing ok - had 15 hours in on Mon/Tues and stayed reasonably chilled until I rugged up, then tried to break his door down and towed me up the yard. Went out with Fred last night - Fred's detachable neck cover was off this am, not sure whether the wind or Dave were to blame!

Helium addiction left a nasty sore-throated hangover behind - was just a little 'ick on Sunday. Got up to the yard about 12.30 with the car window wide open.....!

[eventerbabe]

please don't use roundings if you go for a pelham. They are horrid things and totally defeat the purpose of a pelham. Instead of having the finesse of the 'snaffle' and 'curb' seperately, every movement of the reins when using roundings gives you all or nothing. you are getting the curb action with every movement, so no wonder the horse appears to have more breaks. It can also encourage them to back off a contact and work in a horrible false outline. Use double reins. They are not difficult once you've been shown how to ride in them properly.

I too have a strong cob but we ride in a hanging cheek snaffle. Schooling it the key really. You need to make him listen to your half halts, you need to dictate the pace with your seat. Don't just whizz round the school at top speed, SLOW your rising. You'll find that it WILL slow the horse down. Riding is not about having control and hands, use your seat, weight aids and even contracting your core muscles can be enough to make the horse steady up.

[BabyBear]

please don't use roundings if you go for a pelham. They are horrid things and totally defeat the purpose of a pelham. Instead of having the finesse of the 'snaffle' and 'curb' seperately, every movement of the reins when using roundings gives you all or nothing. you are getting the curb action with every movement, so no wonder the horse appears to have more breaks. It can also encourage them to back off a contact and work in a horrible false outline. Use double reins. They are not difficult once you've been shown how to ride in them properly.

I too have a strong cob but we ride in a hanging cheek snaffle. Schooling it the key really. You need to make him listen to your half halts, you need to dictate the pace with your seat. Don't just whizz round the school at top speed, SLOW your rising. You'll find that it WILL slow the horse down. Riding is not about having control and hands, use your seat, weight aids and even contracting your core muscles can be enough to make the horse steady up.



Thanks eventerbabe - I can eventually slow him with my rise - I really force myself to relax (it almost feels like I'm going into a trance) and he slows for me but it does take me a few seconds to do this - I'm sure I'll get better with practice.

He's really good at listening to me in walk and trot UNTIL he has that first canter - then he just gets so excited and wants to keep cantering forever and when you do get him back into trot he really rushes!!! This makes me think that I don't want anything too strong as he does listen to my half halts most of the time - I just need some extra breaks when we canter!!

[RoughcutDiamond]

He's really good at listening to me in walk and trot UNTIL he has that first canter - then he just gets so excited and wants to keep cantering forever and when you do get him back into trot he really rushes!!! This makes me think that I don't want anything too strong as he does listen to my half halts most of the time - I just need some extra breaks when we canter!!


mm, was going to say "been there".....but we are still there:D. When Davie went back into canter work a few weeks ago he just didn't want to stop, once back in trot he was fast,unbalanced and using any excuse to break back to canter.:rolleyes:

I found it too easy then to slip into a tug of war if not careful. Try to really exaggerate slowing the rise (or sit for a fraction longer if that suits better) and keep him in trot until he delivers.

One thing Carolyn (Bateson) is always saying to folk with "fast" horses is that you must keep the leg on and push through it whilst using your half-halts (just be careful "not to create more impulsion than the hand can control"). I was guilty of often coming back to walk, re-balancing and then trotting on but she has pointed out that horsey can then use that as an evasion, i.e "if I keep going like this she'll slow me down and that's not such hard work".

I'm convinced that she's spot on with this, and am in the process of pushing though now rather than backing off (unless things have gone completely haywire). The results are starting to show - Davie still loves to break back into canter but the number of unbalanced, fast trot paces are reducing in between.

[laceyfreckle]

please don't use roundings if you go for a pelham. They are horrid things and totally defeat the purpose of a pelham. Instead of having the finesse of the 'snaffle' and 'curb' seperately, every movement of the reins when using roundings gives you all or nothing. you are getting the curb action with every movement, so no wonder the horse appears to have more breaks. It can also encourage them to back off a contact and work in a horrible false outline. Use double reins. They are not difficult once you've been shown how to ride in them properly.

I too have a strong cob but we ride in a hanging cheek snaffle. Schooling it the key really. You need to make him listen to your half halts, you need to dictate the pace with your seat. Don't just whizz round the school at top speed, SLOW your rising. You'll find that it WILL slow the horse down. Riding is not about having control and hands, use your seat, weight aids and even contracting your core muscles can be enough to make the horse steady up.


quick question........i haven't used double reins in about 12 years and not that much then, maybe once or twice. Just how difficult are they to use? Would it mean i could ride in a snaffle but use the bottom rein when she's being awkward/strong? just wondering if it might be a good idea to get used to double reins out hacking anyway becasue then i could do dressage/show in a double bridle? Would a pony that hates a snaffle ride in a double though?

[BabyBear]

I'm hoping the more canter work we do the less exciting it will become!!

The new school is much smaller so I'm having to ask him for more collection and that's when the fight starts because Casper doesn't do collected canter:)

Am going to speak to RI tomorrow and arrange a lesson ASAP to start working on this!

[eventerbabe]

quick question........i haven't used double reins in about 12 years and not that much then, maybe once or twice. Just how difficult are they to use? Would it mean i could ride in a snaffle but use the bottom rein when she's being awkward/strong? just wondering if it might be a good idea to get used to double reins out hacking anyway becasue then i could do dressage/show in a double bridle? Would a pony that hates a snaffle ride in a double though?

i find them very easy. Makes life simple if your reins are different 'types', i.e. my snaffle rein was my leather/rubber rein and my curb was laced leather. You are absolutely correct, ride off the snaffle rein and only use the curb when you feel you need that bit extra. That's exactly how i used to use the pelham with my cob but we got to the stage where he was backing off so moved into a kimblewick for hacking. I really don't know enough about doubles to comment, but i know doubles aren't allowed til your quite high up the levels? (lgd will probably know the answer to this :D). We use a hanging cheek snaffle as an alternative to the pelham for schooling coz it's dressage legal :)

Just checked BD rules and doubles aren't permitted til elementary :)

[puzzles]

May I add that it is unlikely that a bit alone will give you the luxury of only having to use it 'once - it has to be the whole package. Look at feed, turnout, amount and type of exercise (is he bored?), is he stabled for long periods of time, is he still settling in and getting used to you (if he is then he'll be much more on the ball as he feels he can't trust you to keep him safe yet). Schooling and a critical view of your horse's lifestyle should help a lot too - and remember that a bit is only as mild/strong as the hands that use it.

:-)

xx

[puzzles]

Ditto eventerbabe.

Sit back and down on your bottom and keep your shoulders back and square. remmber to breathe and stay relaxed but firm in your position (sounds obvious but when people panic or are scared, they hold their breath and clench theit buttocks) . When he does go, keep your arms and shoulders relaxed, halt-halting with your outside rein, keeping a contact but be slightly more allowing with your inside rein (never have a continous pull - give and take). Brace your bottom and stop it from moving (yet without tension - simply still it and hold it firmly in the saddle) and keep your arms - and the contact - back to you. Be careful that you're not gripping with your legs (very easy to do) but you can narrow your knees a little to obstruct his forwards movement. Be consistent and use your voice - "whoooa", from fairly high to low gradually, which helps to decrease the horse's energy and tends to be calming.
Be careful not to do too much and tense up, anticipating difficulties (as I tend to do).

Another exercise i find useful is, after trying and failing to stop the horse after a while of being run off with, lighten the contact a little, and your seat, and push him forward. You may feel out of control and a bit scared if he suddenly bombs off with you, but keep him going for however long it takes, half-halting at corners to rebalance if anything but otherwise simply doing othing (which i personally find difficult to do as a rider). If he shows any sign of wanting to slow down, push him on. Keep him going (not until he is wheezing!) until, you decide to slow down.
Strange but it often works! Many horses are so used to being asked to slow down that all it takes is the rider asking them to go on at once, and at times thereafter, for the horse to really tune in to them and listen.

And don't be afraid to put your leg on him at times, even lightly: it will help desensitise him to it in time, and not be so reactive to it. But watch you don't grip when he speeds off!


I ride a lot of whizzy, young, spooky and panicky horses regularly and some or all of these things always work!

:-)

xx

I find this very useful as a supportive, 'containing' rebalancing posititon for young, strong and whizzy horses.

[laceyfreckle]

i find them very easy. Makes life simple if your reins are different 'types', i.e. my snaffle rein was my leather/rubber rein and my curb was laced leather. You are absolutely correct, ride off the snaffle rein and only use the curb when you feel you need that bit extra. That's exactly how i used to use the pelham with my cob but we got to the stage where he was backing off so moved into a kimblewick for hacking. I really don't know enough about doubles to comment, but i know doubles aren't allowed til your quite high up the levels? (lgd will probably know the answer to this :D). We use a hanging cheek snaffle as an alternative to the pelham for schooling coz it's dressage legal :)

Just checked BD rules and doubles aren't permitted til elementary :)

thanks......ahh you see i use a kimblewick at the moment, and although pony likes it i'm not a fan. she only really likes ported bits so not sure she would like a hanging cheek? (she doesn't like jointed snaffles and french link types don't offer enough control.) awkward pony

[puzzles]

It's a matter of trial and error to find something that works for both of you ... I recommend Myler.

:-)

xx

[PatchyPony]

hmmm - eventer babe you have made me think about it. I will ask my RI next time she's out about double reins and maybe ask to be shown how to use them.

I know its all about schooling etc etc - but in the short term when the bit makes the difference between me being able to ride my horse at all without shattering the confidence Ive got left.... I chose the bit. and as I said... i feel its better she goes lightly in it, than having a constant battle and actually being unsafe in anything else. Im not just talking about hacking either - although i have more control in the school and yes, i practise all the things mentioned here and my RI has been helping me - having had her tank off during lunging in the school and belly herself over the gate I 'need' to know I can stop her if she freaks out with me onboard.:o