Does he move like a hunter?

[Danehill]

Hi everyone!

Here is the link to a video of my horse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbaf6oHKnYU. I would like to know if you think that he moves well, if you think that he would make a great hunter, or would he be better in dressage.

How do you know, when you look at a horse, in which discipline he would be best?

[pineapple]

he isnt tracking up in trot and his two "triangles" are every small. he seems very reluctent to stride out especialy infront, he hardly moves infront. and im not sure if its actually his shoulder conformation that isnt very good and makes his topline look weak or he actally has a very weak topline.
he has good conformation aprt from the front area, work on the topline will improve his over all look and horses can be very successful with out perfect conformation, but if you mean hunter classes then he probally wouldnt do very well, dressage would need a lot of work, and hunting yeah as long as he jumps and gallops anything can hunt!

would probally get someone to check him over vet/physio to see if there is a physical reson why he isnt stepping out.

[Styric]

Agreed. Not until he starts moving out more. He could do okay in the lower levels but his stride isn't rhythmic or long enough.

[Skyhuntress]

From that video, I would say that he's more of a hunter. He looks to have that long, flat movement that seems to be prefered by hunterjumpers. He also lacks any knee movement, so that's usually a sign that they can get the desired "cookie cutter" movement of HJ. Any horse can do well in the lower levels of both hunting and dressage, but there's nothing about him that screams "dressage" to me

Either way though, he really does need to be moving a lot more forward, no matter what discipline you use

[Danehill]

He also lacks any knee movement, so that's usually a sign that they can get the desired "cookie cutter" movement of HJ.

Do you have an exemple (video or picture), of this ''cookie cutter'' movement?

[Danehill]

he isnt tracking up in trot and his two "triangles" are every small. he seems very reluctent to stride out especialy infront, he hardly moves infront. and im not sure if its actually his shoulder conformation that isnt very good and makes his topline look weak or he actally has a very weak topline.
he has good conformation aprt from the front area, work on the topline will improve his over all look and horses can be very successful with out perfect conformation, but if you mean hunter classes then he probally wouldnt do very well, dressage would need a lot of work, and hunting yeah as long as he jumps and gallops anything can hunt!

would probally get someone to check him over vet/physio to see if there is a physical reson why he isnt stepping out.

I thought that I had a picture of him that we could see well his conformation, but I think I only have it in his passport, not on my computer. Anyway, here's a picture of him ridden. http://membres.lycos.fr/photoschevaux/dane2.JPG

[pineapple]

in the picture he is tracking up with roughly even triangles. he is in an outline and his topline looks ok.was the picture taken at a different time to the video??

from the picture i would say he culd do dressage at the lower levels quite nicely. but i dnt understand how he looks so much better under saddle. maybe he was being lazy that day the video was taken???

[Danehill]

The video is from last week, and the picture was taken last year.

What do you mean by ''triangles''?

[Dancinglite]

The video is from last week, and the picture was taken last year.

What do you mean by ''triangles''?

It is when the horse moves and seperates his legs.If you take a line from the left front hoof to the right front hoof along the ground then trace it up to where the legs join the body you will get a traiangle. You want a very base long traiangle and in his case he does not have it. If this horse jumps I would put him in as a jumper as he has neither desired hunter or dressage movement.

[halkynuk]

What a lovely, obliging horse!

He's trying so hard to please when worked loose & under saddle!

Does he move like a hunter?

From the video & picture, I'm sure he'll be a delight once he knows what's required of him.

Critique of the picture ;)

Just look at how well he was working for you!

Relax! sit down, take a deep breath which will open your chest, let your shoulders expand it will lift your body & head up.

Lift your hands - think of holding them as though you were reading a postcard & stop pushing that pram which will let him lift his head & carry himslef & you even better.

Just look how well he's working in the picture - imagine what he can do when you're really working with him!

Is he working as well in the video?

In many ways, yes ~ but he's out there on his own ~ look closely, he's asking questions, he's not sure what's required, hence his hesitations & eventually stopping at the fence.

Whatever you decide ~ enjoy!!

[carrimclaren]

I could be wrong here but i think that the picture is actually someone else riding him? The other profile and videos is a lady who i think is danehill? I might well be wrong though :)

Danehill (this only goes if you are the lady rider) i really hope you don't mind me saying this but i looked at the other video u have on u tube and your profile and i have to say your horse is a really lovely honest lad who tries his heart out for you jumping and looking at the pics he can do quite a good height. I will agree with pineapple that he needs more topline but i think part of the problem is whilst you ride him a lot of the time he's on the forehand and all your energy is going flat and out of the front door rather than making him track up from behind and use his energy properly. I know you didn't ask about the jumping and i hope you don't mind me commenting on it but he does tend to jump quite fast and sometimes takes off very early and just needs steadying up. Maybe going back to basics of gridwork and polework with him could help him to understand where his groundline is and in turn will help to improve him. I think he's lovely as he really tries :) I do think he makes a nice lower level all rounder but dont know if he'd make hunter grade as i don't know a lot about it to be honest.

[Palomino Mare]

i would say dressage more than hunter

[Danehill]

Clarrimclaren, you're right, on the picture it isn't me ridding my horse. He rode my horse for a month (half-board), until I discovered that he was doing dangerous things with my horse without my agreement, so I refused that he continues to ride my horse.

I've been riding at the same stable for 10 years with the same coach, and I would like to change to get a new one, but I haven't find one in my region. My coach hasn't learned me anything new nor constructive in the last year. She likes to coach jumping, but for her, dressage is only doing circles one after the other. That's why I started to read books and try to find help on the internet, to improve the training of my horse.

It's strange that you say that my horse goes too fast, because he has the reputation of being really slow and regular. However, I think that he's going fast when we jump. There are so many other things like this. My coach says something, and then I ask to someone else on the internet who says the contrary. That's why I'm confused! My coach (and the guy on the picture), told me that my horse would be a lovely hunter, because of his regularity, the way he moves, etc. Again, I'm not so sure about it.

[goeslikestink]

Clarrimclaren, you're right, on the picture it isn't me ridding my horse. He rode my horse for a month (half-board), until I discovered that he was doing dangerous things with my horse without my agreement, so I refused that he continues to ride my horse.

I've been riding at the same stable for 10 years with the same coach, and I would like to change to get a new one, but I haven't find one in my region. My coach hasn't learned me anything new nor constructive in the last year. She likes to coach jumping, but for her, dressage is only doing circles one after the other. That's why I started to read books and try to find help on the internet, to improve the training of my horse.

It's strange that you say that my horse goes too fast, because he has the reputation of being really slow and regular. However, I think that he's going fast when we jump. There are so many other things like this. My coach says something, and then I ask to someone else on the internet who says the contrary. That's why I'm confused! My coach (and the guy on the picture), told me that my horse would be a lovely hunter, because of his regularity, the way he moves, etc. Again, I'm not so sure about it.


if you read your post you will find the answer as to why your horse isnt fulent


do not lunge or do circles with the horse as thats not doing him any favours
and hes been educated wrong so doesnt hold himself as he should put a decent rider on him and they would pick him up you just haven t had one to teach nor train you and your horse correctly so he flattens

so--hack out as often as you can so horse can relax but you can still do the odd bit of schooling out side ie leg yeilds and schoulder in.s let the horse enjoy outside for a while
this then gives the horse break from the bordum of continous circles
then bring him back in and dont do circles but rather - use an area of a square or and square school-- use the length of the arena to shorten and lengthen his strides so he can use his hinds and get them undernearth him which will follow thorugh to his poll and soft hands light on the legs so he relaxs his yaw
transitions with half halts- start of from walk to half halt to halt as it easier for the horse to learn as theres no whre to go but stop
then work up gears doing half halts- during transitions this will help his out and you- so you working from an indepedant seat-
be light and soft and then the horse wont flatten and jjust trot- as i call it ie to fast-- half halts collect him up from going froma faste pace to a collect pace--but use the lenght of the school easier for him to get balanced
and easier for you both to achieve - and the horse will have a much better out line

[carrimclaren]

My coach says something, and then I ask to someone else on the internet who says the contrary..

Hey. Firstly know how it feels to be confused about riding/horses as i'm continually confused by things :) Well done though for wanting to find out about how to do things and what will suit you and your horse.
Although i will point out i am by no means an experienced horse person so my post is merely an opinion and i'm not suggesting that what your trainer says is wrong or that you should def. follow what i say. It was just a few things which struck me when i watched the videos, mainly because my horse and i spent about a year going through the same thing :o She was a very steady jumper but because i didn't get her working properly (because she and i were never taught correctly) she was very on her forehand and this made her rush a little and also be quite flat and long when jumping. The more we developed the more we were collected and had more impulsion from behind rather than all the energy falling out the front door.
Def. listen to goeslikestink though as some of those exercises (the shortening and lengthing) worked wonders for my horse and me. Really help you understand (and him) how things should work and then helps them to use their back end better.

[Kc..]

Right i haven't read any of the other comments aoart from the first so i didn't get convinced of something someone else wrote.

Now by no means am i a conformation expert but i would say if you had someone on him or something making him go forward he would look a different horse. He is nice and i think would do well as a hunter, i think you need to also look at the positive becasue from the first comment it's all very negative. He is a nice horse and i stick to my idea that if he was pushing on he would stride out more he isn't really trying there :P as he does keep stopping aswell.

I like him though :)

[Kc..]

Just saw the pic as i thought when he is being pushed on he looks 100 times better.

I think he would so well if you work on his topline slightly.

[Elvengirl]

From the video it's hard to tell as he is not really moving out as he's just having a play.

Here's some advice from a Canadian rider, because I think showing works a bit differently depending on where you are from. The best way to tell, besides having an experienced person on the ground, is how you place in the hunter under saddles. The good moving hunters will always place top 3 consistently out under any judge, this is what I have found. That's strictly movement though, a horse that places well in under saddles may not do as well over fences, whereas a horse who places well over fences may get no ribbons in under saddles.

Under saddles judge the horse on preferred hunter conformation and movement so you'll get the answer there.

As for dressage, he looks a little too fine for my taste but any horse can do dressage, I doubt he'd have the natural ability for passage, piaffe, but I'm sure he could do medium level with correct training at least.

I seem to remember you posting a video a long time ago of jumping 4ft+ jumps on a young chestnut horse, is this the same horse? If so, why are you worried about hunters, he is a fab jumper and should win you loads of prizes. :) If it wasn't you, sorry, maybe it's arena that's familiar?

[Danehill]

You're right Elvengirl, I think I posted on this forum one my video of him when he was younger. The jumps where probably between 3'6" and 4'.

My coach says that my horse is much more a hunter than jumper. However, we did not placed that well in the hunter classes, so I was wondering if my coach was wrong, or if she was right, but my horse hasn't been trained properly yet. That's why I asked the question, to have the opinion of other people.

We did one season of provincial competition (2006), and we placed 5th (if we had placed fourth, we could have gone to the Royal Winter Fair!) in the amateur owner hunter (we only did 4 shows out of 9). In the regional circuit, we won about 7 champions and reserve champions in hunter (3'), jumper (level 3) and equitation. We were also selected to represent our region twice at the Quebec Games in jumper, hunter, equitation and medal classes.

I've thought that my horse would not make a great jumper, because he tends to be slow and regular, and he does not like to be pushed at full speed. However, some people said that he goes too fast in the hunter ring (probably because he's on his forehand). So I don't know what's best for him.

We do not have problems to do clean courses. Therefore, in the jumper classes, we do the jump off almost every time, but we only get ribbons when the others make errors, because they are much quicker than us.

I wish I could find another trainer to improve my horse and I, and know what to do!

When my university exams will be finished in one week, I'll ask my father to come at the stable with me and bring the camera, to have a recent video of me riding my horse on the flat.

[Elvengirl]

I watched your other video of clips from shows. I still think he could make a good jumper. You don't have to necessarily be the fastest horse or a horse with the biggest stride to be good at jumpers. I like that he seems really brave and has a jump anything attitude. In fact he seems almost bored and just steps over the jumps. He's still young too, so he might not have figured out how to come out of his comfort zone in regards to his stride. (he looks short strided especially behind which is probably why he is having slower times in the jumpers) If you decided to take him beyond 3'6" in jumpers it becomes less important to go really fast and more important that they jump clean, lengthen and shorten stride, and be brave, I think he's capable of that. (again this is just what I can see from video, he seems scopey and not challenged at all by the jump heights) I think he would go further in jumpers than hunters, not that he isn't a nice looking hunter, he seems to have more talent in scope than fancy technique if that makes sense.

You seem to place consistently regionally and provincially and he's such a nice steady horse so he's bound to be placing consistent, whether or not he has that extra 'sparkle' for being a top hunter, I don't see it, but I'm no professional hahaha!

At home, try doing lots of transitions from regular working paces to opening up his gait in walk/trot/canter as he seems to really shine when he moves out, you may find he gets more comfortable with changing his stride length with time and will find it easier with practice. Once he is really striding out, start incorporating that into courses, make lines a little longer, maybe add an extra half stride in a line and ask him to take the long choice instead of the short, that sort of thing. Make the courses technical and interesting and he may brighten up as it keeps him on his toes. This will also help with hunters as his stride will lengthen which will make it seem like he is going slower but still makes the lines because he's added that extra few feet to his stride, it will make a prettier picture as well.

again, I don't know you or the horse but he seems like he would excel at anything really, a great little horse, so do what you want with him and what you find fun. :)

[Danehill]

He does not have problems to cover the distances. He has a really big stride. It happens a lot of times that we get close to the jumps in lines because he has a big stride. However, last winter, I worked a lot on the bit, and I think that I was putting more hands than legs, so I worked him a certain period with a lack of impulsion. I saw the consequence of it at the competitions in may and june; for the first time in his life, he had difficulty to cover distance. So know I really have to work impulsion and lengthning of the stride.

On the videos I put on the internet, he was still having a big stride.

[Danehill]

2 months later, I finally have a new video!

My father came with me this morning at the stable, so I have a new video of me ridding Danehill.

For those who saw the previous videos, do you see improvements?

I do not like how I ride, from what I see from the video. My legs, my upper body, my elbows..

Also, I thought that my horse's head was higher than that when I ride him. He seems to have his head too low on the video. And he still does'nt have sufficient impulsion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymGVnfShRSA

[BeachRiding]

Just wanted to say, stunning horsie!

[Jetstreem]

Just watched your most recent video there, wow what a lovely horse.

He has a lovely smooth movement and he is staying in a lovely even rhythm. You can see he is being very soft and that he is really bending when you ask, he looks like he is really trying to please. As you said he does need a little more impulsion which will help him really reach under himself and give you a much bigger movement, but all in all he looks really lovely going round there.

The only comment I would make on your riding is sit up a little straighter and try not to slide your lower leg back, this will help you use your seat more effectively to drive him forward and gain more impulsion.

Hope all that made sense and helps a bit!

Cerys :)