very little bedding

[pineapple]

i have always given my horses a big thick bed. but at the new yard we have moved to they insist on giving the horses only enough bedding to pee on. one of the horses has rubber matting and the other doesnt. i am worried though because my 3 year old rolls alot and hes the horse with out matting and so he must be hitting his hocks on the floor all the time.

is there anyone who has used this method of bedding down and what are your reasons for using it.

i am also worried because the stable seems very small and im worried he could get cast with out banks.

[Soot]

Lucy has only a thin layer of shavings, because she's so messy that it doesn't matter how much you give her it always looks the same mess a few hours later. She has nice thick rubber mats and banks though. She's 16.2.

She turned out from 8 to 4 in winter (24/7 in summer) and tends to save most of her lying down for when she's outside. Trashing the stable on a nightly basis must be very tiring ...

[coss]

when my horses are in, they are in a huge shed and it would cost a fortune to bed down. if i only put bedding in one part it would only be walked throughout the whole shed, the horses pull hay out of the hay nets and pee on that :o

[*Sez*]

I like a decent bed (enough to provide a bit of grip for standing up and some protection for the hocks if the floor is concrete) in a non-matted stable, but have put horses on mats before with only a small corner with shavings in for them to wee on.

[blues mum]

I think a decent bed is essential in a stable with no rubber matting.
Other wise you are not giving the horse the protection it needs if it needs to lie down.
I would not be happy if my horse was put in a stable with out a good thick bed

[Palomino Mare]

If i didnt have matting then i would want a deep bed.

My horse is a box walker so cant have bedding as its too much of a waste, he has matting with banks and gets a bucket full of shavings where he pees a day.

i know they arent nesting creatures though but if he wasnt a box walker i would struggle not to give him a slightly deeper bed:o

[conkers]

You can get away with a thin layer of bedding if you have good quality matting but not if you are on concrete.
What do you class as a thing layer? If my horses were on shavings and on concrete, I would want the bed to come well above the top of my ankle bone when I stand on the floor, at the very least. Some horses do need less than others but it sound as if the amount you are being allowed is no where near enough.

[Crazy Mare]

I have decent rubber matting now but it's taken me a while to get used to it and stop making up a nice deep bed.

I do like my horse to have bankings but for the most part I only use a thin layer of bedding to soak up any wee and this saves oodles of time mucking out :D

I agree with what everyone else has said though, I only do this because I know the rubber matting gives my girl the protection that she needs and wouldn't personally do it if I had a concrete floor.

[pineapple]

well its really thin it barely covers the concrete and you can still see the floor on some parts.

i feel i should say something to the yard owner but i dont want to start a bad relationship with her and i already know she can be bossy because ive seen her teaching!!

also i said to her on the first day i would rather put more bedding down because my horse rolls and she said the more bedding the more the horse will roll. i see her point but if he rolls every day anyway with very little bedding he cant roll much more with a proper protective bed.

i dont know what to say to her. he has bedding in his tail every day so i know he rolls every day.

[pinkypug1]

I would say something...the next thing will be a lame horse and a vets bill!

Most horses at my yard are on rubber matting and they still get 2 barrels of shavings a day on top!

I bed bonnie without matting as i love having a deep bed of shavings for her with huge banks!

[acw295]

Our RS is like that, most of the pony stalls have very little bed in them and you can see the floor in places- no mats. But the liveries all have thicker beds.

I personally wouldn't be happy with it - what sort of livery are you on? Surely you should get to decide how much your horse has - even if there is an extra charge? Some livery contracts I've seen include 1 bale of shavings in the price - if you need more its added on top. Either that or insist on matting?

[lachlanandmarcu]

I would buy your own rubber matting (you can take it with you if you leave if youve bought it) and fit it and then the bedding amount will be ok. Thats what I do when Im not happy with something, just buy my own - did same with elec fencing on a dodgy boundary.:)

They prob genuinely think its fine, and if theyve never had anything happen as a result you dont want your horse to have to prove your point to them before anything is done. :eek:

so I would sort it yourself will be cheaper in the long run also than extra bedding if the mingy amount provided is the standard included amount.

[Sammii819]

I've got rubber matting in my stable and still i put a big bed down, i know that you don't have to but it looks so much more comfy and Prince lies down everynight i wouldn't want to come in to find he has injured himself.

[blues mum]

Am in agreement here.
If you like every thing else about the yard maybe better to buy your own mats or extra bedding ?

[Lora]

The bedding gets under the corners of hte mats and sometimes sticks up. Though I'm full care, I still ahve to fix the mats a few times a week so charlie isn't tripping over a lifted corner.

We also found horses were getting cast after changing to shavings. My boy cast three times in the last 6 months since the change. He likes the smell, rolls and gets stuck. I had a chat with managers and they decided to start banking. Now there's not been a case for a month. (but three the same week I chatted with manager, she agreed banking or something was needed)

Apparently their method was like a hill shape, thinking it would scatter later after being peed on. Soon as they quit doing that, the casting issues stopped. :cool:

I'm just now seeing you're talking about NO matting, don't think I'd like that. You might find your horse lame alot.

[colettybetty]

I was taught that you should be able to drop a fork onto the bed and if you hear the metal prongs ping on the concrete, the bed isn't deep enough. Its difficult when you are new somewhere and you don't want to make a fuss, but your horse 's well-being is your priority and the fact that your YO is 'bossy' probably means that she gets away with more than if she was more approachable. Do it your way and let her mutter away to herself.

[jaydevon]

are you on full livery?? sounds like somebody is trying to save on time and money.
for the one on concreat, no bedding is a no go, maybe invest in some mats. for the one with matting, although i always give a bed, another thought is they lay down on the rock hard ground in the summer dont they? the mattinf at least offers protection for knees hocks ect.

if your really worried about casting then have u thought about an anti-casting roller

[pineapple]

my horses are on full livery and they YO pays for the bedding, although i did offer to buy more to bulk the bed up to start with she refused saying that it would make him roll more. and maybe it will but if he is rolling anyway i think he should have more bed.

on my old yard they let you do what ever bed you wanted and he had really high banks and about 6in of bedding. so that you could drop the fork in it and not hear the concrete, as someone already said.

although he is on full livery i would rather muck him out in the evening so i could maintain his bed as i want. i go the the yard every night apart from wed.

also found out that the person who actually looks after the horses has only been around horses for 3 months, and he has started to feed my pony mare who is met to be out loosing weight! she is rudgged with a HW but out 24/7 he was feeling sorry for her and now she gets a feed every day, with out me knowing.

should i try again, offer to buy a few bales to bulk up the bed. personally i would put another 3 bales in!

[acw295]

I'd leave! If they are feeding your mare without your permission and not providing adequate care in the form of bedding then what else could they be doing wrong when you're not there :eek:.

I know finding new livery is not necessarily easy but if you can it is probably worth a try. I know I've not got much experience of livery yards but it doesn't sound right to me at all!

In the meantime put in the amount of bedding you are happy with - and keep doing it. They'll either get the hint or not :D. What do the other liveries think? What does your contract say?

[Sticky's GF]

Oh dear, very difficult situation.

As everyone has said prev, that is DEF not enough bedding, I was also taught you drop a pitch fork to the ground and if it touches the concrete there isn't enough bedding.

Personally I'd look for another yard, but if you really like it I'd buy rubber matting as YO clearly isn't going to budge and that is the only way you are going to prevent injury. And what a rediculous thing to say that more bedding will make him roll!!! He should be able to roll/sit down in comfort, thats the whole point!!!! Grrr, annoys me when eejits get to have their own frickin yards, i'd do a much better job of it!!!!!

[holz]

U could bandage but personaly i think u shouldnt have to if your paying for your horse to be there then u should get to say how big his bed is! When we had liveries we would put 6 bales of shavingins in to start and then 2 fresh a week if the owners wanted more then we would put more but they would pay for them. Im a big fan of huge beds and banks tho.

[Spuds]

my mares have always had big thick beds, but thats cuz thyre in at night. if you really like the yard that much, i suppose you could buy shavings in and do your own bed, but for the sake of my horses hocks and for its comfort, i'd probably change yard if the owners were to tight to give a horse a decent bed.

[pineapple]

i cant move yards because there isnt one close.

i really dont feel confident about speaking to this YO i know it sounds stupid.

when i first looked at the stables and saw the beds i said right away that he rolls etc and has been cast with out banks before. she said he will roll more if you put more beddin down and if he gets cast i will hear him.......well ... what if your in your house sleeping....


maybe i should just put the bed down and say i got it because i didnt want him hitting his hocks on the floor. and that i will maintain the banks and she just has to muck him out as normal.... she shouldnt have a problem.. right...

[holz]

If your paying her and supplying the beding that your useing then i cant see a problem. If your horse gets cast as even scraps his hocks who will be paying the vets bill? It wont be her i bet.

Hope u sort things out.

[Tuscan Dream]

i used to have a massive bed/banks and i have rubber matting which fills the whole stable - the other week i took the lot out - 40+ barrows lol!!

now i have nice banks and about 2 inches of bed -... he's fine with it and now poos at the frount - 10 mins muck out and bed down now!!!!!

[Soot]

And why should he not roll more?

My old boy rolls on concrete if he has to! He doesn't check that there are banks and bedding ready for him, he goes down and scratches his back. When there's not enough bedding he jumps up pretty sharpish, looking peeved. By that time, any damage could already have been done.

[pineapple]

im going to buy one bale of shavings per week and add more of their shavings as well.

if we are paying 70 per week livery, they prob have les than a bale per week so it costs the yard about 3£ per week for them on bedding and we buy the food..... so i think i could use some more of theirs.

also we have 3 horses on full livery now because i put the pony in as well (she was out 24/7 but the rain is crazy now bless her) i made her bed and put alot more bedding down than is in my horses stable and they havnt said anything to me about it.....

and if they do, ill just say if he scraps his hock, there will be a big vet bill and possible box rest, and if hes on box rest the vet will prob say to make a big bed anyway so he doesnt damage himself any more.

and anyway im paying for the extra bed. thanx everyone:)

[Nookster]

I have to say i am shocked that you are paying for a service that isn't being provided.

I could not even consider paying £70 a week to have my horse lie/roll on a concrete floor.

My lad has a massive shavings bed and i know he can't reach the concrete unless he digs it up. Thankfully he doesn't.

You should be able to have what you want for you horse even more so considering that it is for his health and safety.

Hope you can sort something

[Denbenj]

glad you got it sorted out, I would be quite miffed if someone told me how much bedding I had to have..especially if i was paying £70 full livery!..I wouldnt mind paying for the extra bedding.. ...........but to not be allowed:eek:!!

I like a nice big bed. Kai is on deep litter with Big banks on top of rubber matting lol :o then he has 2 bales every 7-14 days pending on how messy hes been...

Even on Rubber matting I like to see some coverage, I would imagine them to get hock sores and not be comfy in the confinments of a stable but I am a bit OTT with the bed!!

I still Muck out in 10mins whilist Kais eating his breakkie.. Pick the poops out chuck it up to reveal the deep litter/Bits than bring it back down again.

I enjoy mucking out!! One thing I like about winter is doing the stable routine... Hes out in summer:p

[showjumper-zoe]

I have a normal thick bed and matting, I like the support shavings give as I don't think mats just support them I like mats to insulate the floor and I have decent sized banks to keep the draught out and to help them if they did get cast.

[chickyd444]

i keep my horse on a wopper of a thick bed - as like yours he is a major roller- but i have to say i think they will usually scrape the floor before they roll with my boy if he scrapes and hears concrete (like when i first put bed down and it wasnt very thick) he wont roll, perhaps it will be the same for yours ?

i like to think they know when its not safe to roll.:rolleyes:

[showjumper-zoe]

i like to think they know when its not safe to roll.:rolleyes:

I know Beau's bed is already big but we're adding a few more bags at the weekend so it'll be huge

[chickyd444]

the bigger -the better - the comfier - i should imagine -

but i have bed right up to the door as i was always told if he's standing on two different levels it will bugg@r his back :)

[pineapple]

now theres no bedding and just rubber mats with enough bedding to pee on, which isnt working because he had it up his legs!!

i put more in... see if she says anything. also, i asked if i could put my pony out and she said no she still has to stay in. we agreed that she would be out 24/7 apart from in very bed weather, so she has been in for a week, but it was a lovely day today and she still couldnt go out.... plus paying 70 a weekfor a pony that desperatly wants to go out. now shes gonna be in 24/7 until the yard owner says the field is dry enough... that wasnt the deal!!

[Denbenj]

Ohh sounds like your having a nightmare.. I'm sure letting the horses out for fresh air and strech leg for a couple of hours at LEAST isnt going to ruin the fields forever especially as they have been of them a week and the pony is getting Anxious. I know alot keep in over winter, but I think thats wrong for them to be IN and with No bedding for support in such a small space as a stable

Pahhh I would look for somewhere else!

[Stella2]

my horses are on full livery and they YO pays for the bedding, although i did offer to buy more to bulk the bed up to start with she refused saying that it would make him roll more. and maybe it will but if he is rolling anyway i think he should have more bed.

on my old yard they let you do what ever bed you wanted and he had really high banks and about 6in of bedding. so that you could drop the fork in it and not hear the concrete, as someone already said.

although he is on full livery i would rather muck him out in the evening so i could maintain his bed as i want. i go the the yard every night apart from wed.

also found out that the person who actually looks after the horses has only been around horses for 3 months, and he has started to feed my pony mare who is met to be out loosing weight! she is rudgged with a HW but out 24/7 he was feeling sorry for her and now she gets a feed every day, with out me knowing.

should i try again, offer to buy a few bales to bulk up the bed. personally i would put another 3 bales in! I'm sorry to say it, but in your shoes I'd be wondering if moving to this yard was a mistake :eek: I did that once and moved again virtually as soon as I realised it before my mare got too settled (within 3 weeks!). If you decide to stay, tell them quickly the way that you want things, you have a small chance of them listening when you are new, less chance when you have been there longer! Its not good for our stress levels (let alone our horses) to be on a yard where we don't have faith in the competence of the staff.

[joosie]

Our stable floors are concrete - rubber matting is unheard of in these parts! - and I am paranoid about the horses not having a good bed, especially since they're indoors a lot at this time of year. We have found a very cheap kind of bedding from a local mill - pellets made of grounded straw, which break up underfoot to make a lovely firm base. On top of this they have a layer of shavings, and we are able to keep this layer thin because the base is so good. It absorbs the pee, which means the shavings last for longer, and even the most dedicated rollers and scrapers do not break through to the concrete.
As others have said, with your horse on full livery you should expect to have some kind of say in things like his bedding, our liveries are all full and the owners get what they request... if it's not possible to give them exactly what they want, we do whatever we can to accommodate their requirements.

I enjoy mucking out!! One thing I like about winter is doing the stable routine...

Mmm... interesting... Do you fancy a "working holiday" in Italy?? :p:p

[pineapple]

:mad:OMG well it finally happened! my boy got cast today and cut his knee. luckly he is sound, anyway big bed is going now before he damages imself evenmore.

i feel terrible for him. why couldnt she just listen anyway.:mad:

[vikkig]

:mad:OMG well it finally happened! my boy got cast today and cut his knee. luckly he is sound, anyway big bed is going now before he damages imself evenmore.

i feel terrible for him. why couldnt she just listen anyway.:mad:

sorry he has hurt himself, i personally would be thinking why the yo states that you are to use little shavings, i have worked on a yard and the only reason for doing this is to save money and time, according to BHS standards horses should have matting and a big bed. we had huge beds and still were classed as acceptable, they stated the needed to be deeper for excellent.

i would ask for a breakdown of what your livery includes as if you are expected to have a small bed then they should not be alot of labour costs included and obviously not much cost for bedding. if your not comfortable with speaking to the YO is there anyone else on the yard that feels the same way who might speak to her?

[5.7FB+16.2FC]

omg!!! i dont know how you can put up with a yard like that!!:eek: