2 year olds...Am i doing ok?

[boglin]

This may be long, sorry!Also, i thought of putting this in the training section, but i'd like a NH perspective on it :)

I have 2, 2 year old fillies. A section A and an Arab. They will ultimatley be my riding ponies for myself and 2 daughters. I have brought on youngsters before but not from scratch, i used to rehabilitate thoroughbreds many moons ago. However, time has passed and i am attempting to bring them on using more sympathetic methods than some of those i have seen used in the past. I want my babies to trust me and enjoy their work, rather than using fear and force as training aids. I am particularly struck on Richard Maxwell and Mark rashid's techniques (though both different in many respects).

At present they are living out with shelter rugged at night, though have a hard standing coral at night. They're fed at lib hay and haylage and baileys stud balancer with carrots. They are brought out and tied daily and groomed/feet picked out. I do about 10 mins work twice a week, both understand how to yield to pressure and will happily yield bums and shoulders. I have been doing some desensitisation with tarpaulin/yoga balls etc. I am intending to start long reining and walking out on the road in the summer. Both are lovely, friendly, relaxed, happy ponies who i feel honoured to be around.

Questions are -
1/am i doing too much/too little? i worry sometimes that they should just be left to their own devices (though to be honest they are bar the hour we're up there in the morning and 20 mins pm)

2/The section a had foot abscesses in the summer and has since been a little touchy round one foot. Whilst you're holding it she dips her knee as if she's about to kneel down. Usually i let her go and then pick it up again as soon as she's regained her balance. Today i held on and she actually lay down! She wasn't stressed or concered, just lay down then stood back up again. However, it worried me as it going in the worng dircetion. When she stood back up i picked up her foot again and put it down before she had chance to protest. i did it another 4-5 times and she was fine. She is a very confident pony and well balanced. I feel there must be a gap in my training somewhere, if she feels the need to test me, though part of me feels that it's just part of her growing up. The Arab baby is such an accepting little love, the two are so different she makes Mary's antics seem out of proportion.What other games can i play with her to get her to trust my leadership? She tries it on in other areas occassionally and i have to go back to basics with her. My daughter calls her Cheeky Monkey, and that's exactly what she is!

Ros

[Kate F.]

Today i held on and she actually lay down! She wasn't stressed or concered, just lay down then stood back up again. However, it worried me as it going in the worng dircetion. When she stood back up i picked up her foot again and put it down before she had chance to protest. i did it another 4-5 times and she was fine. She is a very confident pony and well balanced.


Don't worry - it's a sign on her confidence in you that she lies down!:) Picking up a foot and holding it mimics the action of the leg when the horse lies down by itself, and it is the way most people teach a horse to lie down. It stimulates the "lie down" idea - and it's actually not uncommon for young horses to do this. I think you did exactly the right thing - just pick the foot up, pet the horse, and put it down again a few times to make it clear that "lift" is the right answer, not "lie down". It wasn't a protest - just a misunderstanding! :D

[neen]

I'm so glad you posted this -- my 2 year old did something very similar this week. He didn't lie all the way down, just dipped the knee and started to crumple. I'm afraid I let go though!

Very glad for the explanation, Kate, makes sense. I've noticed with babies that when they first learn the correct response to something they're careful to do it spot on, then as they get more used to it they start "ringing the changes" and experimenting with different responses. I think I'll interpret the "crumple" tactic as another one of these experiments.

I try and do some yielding exercises every time I go into the stable, rather than just in formal training blocks -- even if I just turn him around the forehand each way or back him up and bring him forward a couple of times. We go for short walks in hand and I'm teaching him a cue for "you may now graze." Taking them into unfamiliar environments is meant to be good for getting them to look to you for leadership -- if something a bit scary happens they look to you to see what they should do. Might be worth trying that if madam is getting a bit bog for her boots on home turf? If it ever stops raining I'm looking forward to starting desensitisation games, so I'd be interested to hear more about that.

Today I bought him a Jolly Ball and he was most impressed with that!

[Kate F.]

I've noticed with babies that when they first learn the correct response to something they're careful to do it spot on, then as they get more used to it they start "ringing the changes" and experimenting with different responses. I think I'll interpret the "crumple" tactic as another one of these experiments.

That's part of it - they'll try to see what different actions will stop you asking, but we also need to be careful that we are releasing at the right time (when the horse tries to give the right answer) and not keeping on asking for too long. If we ask for too long after the horse has decided on a course of action, they then think what they did was the wrong answer and try something else.

Lifting the foot is a great example of this. If we go just a little too fast from "pick your foot up" to "hold your foot up" - or rather ask for "hold your foot up" for too long before establishing that "hold your foot up" is the right response, they'll think they haven't found the right answer and try something else, such as lying down.

From the horse's point of view, they always do the right thing, and there's always a reasonable and logical explanation for what they do. If what they do is not what we wanted, we need to look at how we asked - was is clear what we wanted, and whether we stopped asking at the right moment - did we go past the right response and not tell the horse it was doing the right thing, so it tried something else! ;)

What happened to Boglin is a wonderful illustration - Boglin has unwittingly trained the horse to lie down. As soon as the horse started to think about "down", she let go of the foot - so she was reinforcing the idea of "down". Then she held on a bit longer - and the horse thought "more down" was the right answer, and lay down. Boglin interpreted this as resistance or "testing" - but actually the horse was doing exactly what it had found gave the release - in other words, what it had been trained to do. Boglin then corrected it by giving the release earlier - BEFORE the horse thought about "down" - and the problem was solved.

Years ago, I did one even better - I inadvertently taught my horse to rear:o. Every time she thought about "up" (which she did quite a lot, as she thought she should be in charge of things) I tried to quieten her down by taking all pressure off - so I was not only training her to rear, I was also giving her some rather submissive body language! Pretty soon she was trying to tap dance on my head! :eek::eek: A whole lot of people thought she was a nasty horse with a bad attitude - it took a very special trainer to show me what was really going on and how to deal with it!! She's now my number one assistant instructor! :p:D

[boglin]

Brilliant, what a clever girl she is :D. She is such a bright little filly, and gets things so quickly. It was so funny at the time, as she just lay there for a bit and stood up again, no worries, no fuss. Thanks so much for the words of advice, greatly appreciated :D
Neem, good luck with yours i'm having such fun with my two.

[Vicki&Milo]

So often it is the clever animals that are so difficult to work with (actually the same can be said for people).

My five year old has also done this, he went down on a concrete floor and scared the bejesus out of me, its interesting though that this is what they SHOULD do, I will be taking a new perspective.

[boglin]

There must be something in the air! Whilst i was given Star (arab filly) a brush, she too lay down :eek:! As soon as took her rug off, she was fidgetting around trying to reach her itchy bits (she's blowing her coat like crazy-bloomin mad weather!). I was helping her out with a curry comb,but obviously not hitting the right spots, so down she went, had a good rub, stood up, had a shake and carried on eating her haylage!