Natural Dressage!?

[ashlingm]

Just was browsing and had to share this
Ive never been so impressed by a horse doing dressage before - its amazing. maybe some of the big name dressage riders could learn a few things from the 2 of them....again wow!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD7Wpfqd2Vg

[ashlingm]

bump...it really is worth a look

[ameliet1971]

Wow, that was an amazing clip, thanks for sharing it. I thought the collected canter at liberty was awesome. :)

[Ms Kitty]

Well, I didn't think that was anything special or anything I haven't seen before. The horse didn't look very happy doing some of the movements at liberty or when riding without tack, and with tack her riding was not very nice looking, especially the hands.

But it takes a lot to impress me.

Nina x

[Snow_Pony]

I thought it was beautiful - thanks for showing us :)

xxx

[Cupcake]

:o I don't see what is so special about it either. The horses ears are flat against its head most of the time while she is on the ground with it. It looks horrid with it's dead almost scrapping along the ground like that.

It's wonderful that she isn't using contraptions, but doesn't do anything for me.

[IrisSilverMoon]

I dunno that that's natural dressage so much as very well trained. If you have the training on the horse you don't really need to touch its mouth at all, it should be able to do that stuff from the seat.

we don't see the training before the horse gets to that point though, who knows what she did to achieve that?

i do admit it always looks pretty cool to have a horse without a bridle and saddle do all that stuff.

[crazyhorse97]

so gad it wasnt just me that thought i didnt look happy :o sure its impressive, but as others have said, not so much natural as well trained. nice though

xXx

[Santi]

It looks ok to me, the horse is correct in his balance, he stretches his neck but the hindlegs don't disappear out behind him.

The horse is muscled up to do dressage so he has obviously been trained carefully and slowly properly - i could see a good case for training a horse like this who couldn't be ridden but really you can train the horse and rider to do the same in about the same time probably, its more about the horse becoming collected isn't it rather than learning tricks?
i'm sure i could 'teach' my horse to do piaffe but i don't know whether it would damage his legs if i don't do the years of training to tone and supple him first.

I don't think dressage has to be cruel, my (BD) teacher trained in germany, we don't use any gadgets or bits but the softest snaffle, the horse is very happy in his work and very relaxed, he has to try to do the exercises and work.

Ever been to a yoga class and watched the expressions on peoples faces?!

[star*]

Hasn't it been said by Heather Moffet I think that too much stetching long aand low is actually quite damaging. Suppose that woman saves money on tack:D

[kaytenherponies]

My horse eats with his ears back he must be so unhappy :D

[Bay Mare]

Nice horse but looks tense and not particularly happy. Not that impressed with the riding either, quite a bit of 'flopping' and lots of 'seat polishing' going on with and without the saddle. I'd love to see him worked by a classical rider with a quiet seat because he's got nice movement.

[charlotte+jill!]

tense not happy

bit overweight and not muscled well .... should have better outline along the back and better muscled quaturs imo

[CER1389]

I have the upmost respect for people who can sit canter bareback!

However I didn't think it was *that* impressive....nor did the horse seem happy. Having seen flying pace bareback and brideless infront of thousands of people that was impressive

[Joyscarer]

I'm always hoping my hands will improve but I won't be taking tips from her to get them to.

[ameliet1971]

This is one very talented lady, if I could achieve just a fraction of what she has I'd be over the moon!!!!

http://www.dressagenaturally.net/index-Dateien/Page324.htm

It's also a misconception that horses are angry or unhappy when they've got their ears back, as it can often be because they're concentrating on the handlers body language and instructions. ;)

.

[kaytenherponies]

This is one very talented lady, if I could achieve just a fraction of what she has I'd be over the moon!!!!
http://www.dressagenaturally.net/index-Dateien/Page324.htm
It's also a misconception that a horse is angry or unhappy when he's got his ears back, it's often because they're concentrating on the handlers body language and instructions. ;)

.

Or in eating as much as he can in as smaller amout of time as possible in my horses case :D

[ameliet1971]

Or in eating as much as he can in as smaller amout of time as possible in my horses case :D

:D:D:D

[wonkeywoody]

I too have tons of respect for someone who trains their horse like that as oppose to the usual 'forced' outline we all see too often.

The horse is listening to her every cue - he's not unhappy, just concentrating. His ears move regularly and independantly.

As for picking her apart, how many of you guys dont have faults?

[IrisSilverMoon]

It's also a misconception that horses are angry or unhappy when they've got their ears back, as it can often be because they're concentrating on the handlers body language and instructions. ;)





yeah, i don't always put a lot of stock into ears back=angry. Same with tail swishing. my riding instructors horse will swish his tail the first half of the ride until he gets loosened up. He has some arthritis in his hocks and it means he's uncomfortable until he stretches and gets some good work in. He LOVES working and trying to do work that keeps the tail swishing from happening would probably make him explode. So though he is uncomfortable in those moments he's certainly not unhappy and unwilling to do the work. If he was giving a lot of resistance it would be different.

I have the upmost respect for people who can sit canter bareback!



collected canter bareback is super easy to sit. its the trotting around that can be hard! i used to ride a horse that was very round (not fat, but had a big barrel) and didn't have the easiest trot to sit, it took a bit of concentration to keep from sliding sideways when i trotted around on him bareback. canter was never a problem.

I also don't necessarily think the horss is fat, could be that's just how he is. A horse doing that much work will probably not be overweight. he looks like the horse i just described above. Very round, but not fat (he would be if you gave him enough food though), and more than muscled and supple enough for the work. He also spent most of the time with his ears back, which was not an indication for him he was not happy. he was definately a bold enough horse that if he was not happy or thought you were being unfair in anyway he would let you know!

[charlotte+jill!]

I did say in my opinion..... and that is it is fat.

I have a horse that looks at hay and puts on the pounds and is ..... a round type.... but with good work and careful management looks good. Attually make that 2 and a TB lol!

[veradonja!]

This is not dressage its pony tricks- The first scale of training is rythm and its all over the place.

The second is straightness this horse does not look straight (or through) to me

and I agree with others, her hands are dreadful

I don't really see the advantage of training your horse by waving a stick about as a oppose to sitting on its back and giving correct aides.

and why would you want to ride your horse bareback with head on the floor in canter?

[ameliet1971]

This is not dressage its pony tricks- The first scale of training is rythm and its all over the place.

The second is straightness this horse does not look straight (or through) to me

and I agree with others, her hands are dreadful

I don't really see the advantage of training your horse by waving a stick about as a oppose to sitting on its back and giving correct aides.

and why would you want to ride your horse bareback with head on the floor in canter?
No offence veradonja, but your comments sure made me smile. :)

Quote from link: http://www.dressagenaturally.net/ind...en/Page324.htm

"Karen Rohlf has over 20 years of experience teaching and training dressage.
Her original dressage training was under International competitor, trainer and judge, Anne Gribbons. At the time, Karen was one of the youngest people to train her own horse to FEI level. She represented the United States four times at the North American Young Riders Championships, 3 times receiving team Silver Medal and once the Individual Bronze Medal. She and her students have placed Champion or Reserve in every level through Intermediaire II at Regional Championships, and have earned placings in the National Horse of the Year standings multiple times"

I think it's safe to assume that Karen Rohlf probably has just a little more dressage and training experience than you, (definately me) and no doubt probably most others on this board. :D

[horsey1992devon]

I liked it, atleast she isn't yanking the horse into an "outline" or anything..

He just looks like he's concentrating to me, though not sure about the whip waving!..

[kt_luvs_smartie]

:o I don't see what is so special about it either. The horses ears are flat against its head most of the time while she is on the ground with it. It looks horrid with it's dead almost scrapping along the ground like that.

It's wonderful that she isn't using contraptions, but doesn't do anything for me.

the horses ears arent pinned right back they are fixed on her and at times are quite floppy. if the horse didnt want to do it at liberty then it wouldnt... thats the beauty of liberty... the horse has a choice.

[veradonja!]

Thanks ameliet
for your comment quote

I think it's safe to assume that Karen Rohlf probably has just a little more dressage and training experience than you, (definately me) and no doubt probably most others on this board.


I have no doubt at all that Karen has achieved a great deal in her life but I seriously doubt any of the qualifications listed will have been on this horse with no tack.

I spend a lot of time watching an international trainer working at a very detailed level with young horses and young riders to equip them to ride at FEI level.

I spend a lot of time with young horses and young riders working with very well known dressage trainers in the UK.

It is reasonable enough for me to give an opinion based on this background just as it is for you based on what ever background you have to dismiss it.

I would maintain however that it does not take a great deal of experience to establish whether a horse is keeping a steady rythm through out its work which this horse clearly is not. It is also getting stuck in the piroette.

and just look at her hands when the bridel is on and tell me they are not moving up and down.

[Kc..]

I think it was good but not amazing, thanks for sharing though!

ETA - i don't think the horse is really unhappy so much as concentrating damn hard, his ears are very floppy. Also personally i consider anything natural not to be working with there head up and in like that, although she isn't out of tack but surely the point is it's the same in tack?

[ameliet1971]

Another interesting quote made by Karen Rohlf..

Natural Dressage:
....is when the human makes the commitment to put the principles of natural horsemanship before the goals of dressage, while still striving to achieve amazing results. The solutions to our frustrations with our horsemanship can be found in a place beyond technique; they can be found in the changes we must be brave enough to make on the inside of ourselves to do what is best for our horses. Dressage horses are horses too.

Note how she states striving to achieve amazing results.

:)

[dressagexreo]

this horse has been well trained prior... It is very amazing that a horse can be this well trained, but even more amazing that someone can do this well and obviously fair training on a horse. Notice how correct he is even when he moves. His outside hind comes right up into the front leg, and that inside hind just lifts and crosses, hes obviously doesnt know how to move not over his back... You can thank Xenephon for this, and actual dressage. Because by the looks of this riders position it is very classical, and perfect. heels are down, seat is deep. Legs are positioned back and a little off. Dressage has been quirked around with. this is a classically trained horse... congrats for noticing!

[Whatanejit]

I think it is amazing!!

Agree that the shoulders and hands are a wee bit odd during the bridled canter :confused:

but apart from that the horse is completely concentrating on her, her aides are fine and it is all quite amazing!

Her relationship with the horse is fabulous.

Thanks for posting this - off to look at a few more of her vids :D