What is wrong with these feet?

[capalldubh]

Not a rhetorical question...There does seem to be something wrong with them. I can see obvious things, like there is a central sulcus in the frogs that's a bit too deep, but it's not tender (I shove my little finger in there every day with MSM cream and he doesn't mind - and normal foot smell, no thrushy smell).

They're muddy pics, but under all that the wall is thick and the white line is solid, yellow and looks OK.

But they're not performing well... and we are having recurring abscesses (in these two feet, mainly popping out at heels - currently the white line on the hind has developed a hole and an abscess which might affect the sole, not sure yet).
Can anybody see anything obvious that we're missing?
Back left
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/seventines/Backleftside.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/seventines/Backleftheels.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/seventines/Backleftsole.jpg

Front right... as you can see he's quite happy to stand in a bucket (especially if it has previously contained his dinner)
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/seventines/Frontrightside.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/seventines/Frontrightheels.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/seventines/Frontrightsole.jpg

and an abscess that popped out the other hind a few weeks ago...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/seventines/DSC00018.jpg

[MelanieD]

Can't see anything obviously terrible..

How long has the abcessing been going on? Is he out 24/7 on lots of mud? Any change there's low grade laminitis going on? Is he generally comfortable on all surfaces when not abcessing? Walking toe first or heel first? How much work is he doing?

Maybe something stuck in the white line, like a small stone that the horn has then grown over, but unusual to get that in multiple feet.

[capalldubh]

Can't see anything obviously terrible..

How long has the abcessing been going on? Is he out 24/7 on lots of mud? Any change there's low grade laminitis going on? Is he generally comfortable on all surfaces when not abcessing? Walking toe first or heel first? How much work is he doing?

Maybe something stuck in the white line, like a small stone that the horn has then grown over, but unusual to get that in multiple feet.

Up till 31st December, he'd been the best in the field for abscesses - then he popped the one in the pic, on new year's day :rolleyes: Then just general "not very comfortable" and a bit toe first when walking without boots. He was only lame for a day, but still slight temperature in hoof for about a week afterwards. Then last Saturday, slightly noddy on front, Sunday very lame, heat and a bit of swelling around the pastern, Monday not so lame but a bit of heat - then today I spotted the wee hole in the white line on the back one and he was starting to point it (so now we have a sore diagonal pair...).

Till today, the white line on all the feet has been solid - I would be surprised to see anything get into it, but I suppose it could seal over once inside?

He's out 24/7, field has been wet since New Year, but the only mud is by the gate when he goes in and out. I usually do feet in the field, where they're clean, but the photos were where he'd walked up to the gate.

When he's not abscessing, he hacks out happily with no boots - provided it's smooth tarmac. If there's a bit of gravel or loose stones, he ouches but doesn't walk off lame. I usually alternate hacking with/without boots, just to keep wear to the heels down. We haven't hacked out now since 28th Dec :rolleyes: but before that we were doing at least 40 mins and up to 70 mins or so, about 5/6 days a week (plus handwalking on other days).

We're still handwalking - even today, bless him, he plodded up and down the hill with me and seemed happy to get out of the field, but it was obvious his feet were sore.

I do worry about lgl. He grazes on unfertilised hill pasture, mixed grasses - I did have him on SS alfalfa up till I decided that the last time he'd got lots of abscesses/sore feet (just over a year ago), I'd been shovelling alfalfa into him. He gets kwikbeet and fastfibre, plus magox, salt and hoofmender every day and that's it.

Could it be bruises from walking out over gravel? Mind you, he hasn't actually been ridden out for over a month, so...

It's really frustrating - the feet don't look at all bad, but something's not right.

[xloopylozzax]

the toes look a bit long but its the opinion of the farrier.
what has your farrier said about the abcessses.
are they due to gravel or recurring infection.
if it is infection then sectioning the foot may be needed if it causes lameness.
talk to your vet and farrier- i have seen it done numerous times by my dad (hes a farrier) but dont know whether it is Politically correct so sorry if you disagree.

[MelanieD]

So he's only had a total of two abcesses and not particularly huge ones, and other horses in the same field have abcessed as well. It happening to multiple horses suggest possibly environmental thing, like the wet ground that's a normal part of the delightful british winter :rolleyes:

Wet feet do wear more quickly than dry so maybe its just simple case of wet soggy feet wearing too much, and softened in the wet as well so bruise more easily leading to abcess.

[chunky monkey]

I agree it could be an enviroment thing, due to the wet conditions. Especially if others are getting them.

I keep sheep and I tend to find just before lambing (has to be the worst time for them going lame, as they are heavily pregnant and you don't want to be messing with sheeps feet when they are pregnant arrrh. Sheep stress so easily and it can lead to them aborting etc). I get a whole load go lame. So it could be due to changes in there body hormones. In your yard of horses not the case I know, especially if there not pregant but I hope you get my drift. But I find that our fields are wettest just before lambing and when a number go lame I think that they pick up infections from the ground more easily, which transfers from one to another as they are walking over the same pasture as one another.


If your constantly walking over gravel, with barefeet and your horse doesn't have strong feet then bruising could be causing abcesses. But that would have to be the same senario for all the horses on the yard. If some are shod then I suspect transmitted infection due to the wet conditions and for which you can't really do anything about. I would just say if possible manage your grazing so that the ground is rested occasionally, this will help to break any spore infections living in the ground.

[Wally]

The trouble is you've grabbed the hoof to take the photos and it can distort the angles.

If you pick the foot up, then hold it below the knee and then let the foot flop when you take a picture you get a far clearer view of all the angles as your hand won't be rotating the hoor.

With the back feet, pick it up then hold it up back at the hock and let the leg dangle.

Form those pictures I'd say the balance was out, but it's hard to tell. More heel and less toe might be nice too.

[MelanieD]

I thought the balance didn't look right on the pics taken from behind, but looking at the sole shots the walls look like they're balanced ok to the sole, so guessing they're balanced to LSP and the leg isn't so perfectly straight that the foot looks balanced if you use the sighting across the foot from behind type method.

The heels are quite low, not panic about it low but lower end of ok, more heel might help since he's walking toe first, are the abcesses all in the heels? Most likely just wet feet and a bit too much wear, unless someone is trimming too much heel off...

[capalldubh]

Thank you everybody who replied - it is difficult for me to judge, I am the only one on the field who doesn't use a farrier, and the only one whose horse actually goes out on the road at the moment, so comparisons are difficult.

All the horses in the field (there are 5) are unshod - and the sheep thing makes a lot of sense. It is a very very big field ;) nearly 20 acres for 5 horses, but an awkward shape so hard to rest. Oddly, though, the horses have been in a rested section since early January (around when the problem started) and have just been moved out again this week.

The pics were actually taken to show the central sulcus (before I realised we were going to have abscesses again :rolleyes:) and were taken a week before a trim was due, so they would have been on 6 weeks post trim. I agree the heels (particularly at the back) tend to be low - trimmer has mentioned this and wishes they would grow. She never has to take hoof wall, doesn't really touch the sole or heels from below at all, just tidies up frog where needed. At the moment, she says they are pretty much self maintaining. I will tidy up raggy bits and keep the toes neat between visits.

The abscesses tend all to come out through the heel bulbs - I've never had a coronet band "gravel" type abscess with Jackson. So that would suggest - toe first landings, deep central sulci, heel abscesses - that the problem is at the back of the foot? You can't really see structures above the hoof inthe pics, but they are, a year after shoes came off, still pretty weak.

So - I'm thinking to myself here - I really need to keep him in boots all the time we're on hard surfaces. I might just have been pushing things a bit too fast taking the boots off, because he seemed happy to walk out on tarmac - but it's not having the desired effect of stimulating growth, it's just wearing too much off and hurting the underdeveloped digital cushions and lateral cartilages...

The good news for me this morning is that what I thought was going to be another abscess yesterday is OK today, heat all gone and he's weighting it fine and not pointing the toe :) Back to booting all 4 for everything, I guess :)

ETA Wally I will vow to improve my photography skills ;) And Jackson will undertake to stand up straight for me :) ETAETA How on earth do you manage to hold a leg and a camera at the same time? It is a real challenge (bits of tail always blow across the camera at the wrong moment, or if it's back feet, horse always seems to fart just as I get the foot lined up and I nearly lose balance from the smell...)

[MelanieD]

Have you tried putting solemate pads inside the boots? They really help with growth so would hopefully get you some heel height, and also help get a comfortable heel first landing which would help with the internal structures. If the deep sulcus isn't improving despite you treating infection then it could be lack of heel first landing giving lack of stimulation to the frog stopping things from improving. Also make sure diet is good so he has everything he needs to be able to grow nice feet..

[capalldubh]

Wow, I'm impressed anybody managed to read to the end of that! Thanks! :D

The boots have pads inside. I did use them without pads since the summer because he seemed more comfortable, but put pads back in when we started having the abscess issues.
I think I've just not been using them enough. I was kind of hopeful we didn't need them anymore - we went from "ow" every time his hoof hit the road to striding out happily and asking to walk up rough farm tracks. That was before the weather got horribly wet, though, and I guess I forgot that hoofs, like nails when you stay in the bath too long, tend to get a bit soft and spongy in the wet :o

Any diet suggestions? At present, it's 300g Kwikbeet, 300g Fastfibre, and in the evening, a large scoop of Fibergy and 300g SS Blue bag grass nuts, MagOx, Salt and Hoofmender (triumph of hope over experience, that last one :rolleyes:). Oh, and the occasional carrot and sugar free polo mint ;)

[MelanieD]

Diet sounds good. Boots and pads when working to help with wear and the low heels etc should do the rest. You could do some rides with and some without watching how much growth and wear you get to decide when to use them if its too much of a faff to put them on every time.

Right Step hoof dressing can be good for feet that are on wet ground a lot, not a miracle cure but does help out a little bit.