J gets erm, 'Energeticised' piccies!

[Roofio]

J is now modelling this new Energetics hoof wear thing - shall be very interesting to see how it works out and what improvements we get from it. I'm intrigued by it, can't see how something that looks so inconspicuous can make a difference but apparently it does - we shall see! :cool:

Started off with a cleantrax session in the sunshine
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n248/Roofio24/DSC00358.jpg

He was a good boy and didn't wander off... until i took the welly off the first leg and he ran off and hid behind the barn :rolleyes:

We *tried* to take some nice photos once he'd been caught!
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n248/Roofio24/DSC00362.jpg

Then our EP came and put the hoofwear on for us. We had to make sure his feet were clean and dry and he had some of the cream stuff that comes with it on his soles and frog. Plenty of glue went on and then the wraps. He had a double wrap due to his size and was a good boy mostly, apart from when he pulled back and nearly pulled the whole thing off :eek: fortunately Siobhan managed to get it back on and it's still there today! His heels are still quite far back so it wasn't an easy job! They set fully in about half an hour and are rock hard.

Here's the wraps today
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n248/Roofio24/DSC00372.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n248/Roofio24/DSC00373.jpg

They have obviously increased his confidence as I found him on the wrong field, having pushed through the hedge :rolleyes:

Naughty, but very handsome (even with his poorly eye
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n248/Roofio24/DSC00369.jpg

Hopefully the wraps will stay on for a while and we'll have some good improvements! :)

[Yann]

Looks like fun:D What a handsome boy he is:) Will be very interested to see how you get on with this. Is he more comfortable with it on?

Is that toe flare or the stuff in the 'wraps today' shot? I assume it's the stuff? It's a bit thicker than I pictured it would be if so. How much of the sole does it cover?

[Roofio]

I think he's definitely more comfortable with it. He has to walk across hardcore to get to where we tie up and although at first he was very unsure, today he stomped across it without really thinking about it.

No that's not flare, just the wrap and as he has a double layer on it's quite thick. Didn't think i'd taken any pics before they went on but i did take these 2 rubbish ones!

This was after his trim, siobhan knocked a bit more out before the wraps went on
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n248/Roofio24/DSC00354.jpg

Right before the wraps
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n248/Roofio24/DSC00371.jpg


It covers the back part of his foot up to around his quarters and around an inch or so around the toe with a small semi-circle area at the end of his frog open. pic is rubbish, doesn't show it clearly.

[Yann]

I thought he had a pretty straight toe from what you've posted before :) Sounds good, hope it helps him! Was it expensive?

[Roofio]

£20 per wrap, so £40 cause we had a double! S thinks Dylly would benefit too, as his soles have gone quite thin now all that rubbish has exfoliated away but I decided that seeing as he has at least another 3 months before he starts doing anything, that's 3 months to get his feet better so he's not having them just yet - we're on a bit of a budget at the min :o

[Bay Mare]

Did your EP fit this?

I thought that there was some discussion as to the legality of this being fitted by an EP because it could be seen as trimming a foot in preparation and fitting the 'shoe'. I guess that it will come down to whether or not the law would say that this was indeed a shoe but I would certainly want to be very, very careful if I were fitting one of these and not a registered farrier.

This isn't a hoof boot which is put on and taken off by the owner but something which is attached to the horse for up to 4 weeks at a time. As far as I'm aware it would be considered a shoe because it's not immediately removeable. Your EP could find themselves in contravention of the 1976 Farriers Act which is not a position I would wish upon them.

I do think that they probably have their place when recommended by a vet but I'm not entirely convinced by them. What happens to any WLD etc while the foot is encased in a non-removeable boot? Ok, you cleantrax prior to fitting them but surely it makes an ideal breeding ground for any remaining bugs.

I do hope that it helps your horse and thankfully the legal problem isn't yours but it's certainly something worth considering.

[Roofio]

as far as I am aware the legality issue has been sorted. we're the only country in Europe left with this law and as the wrap isn't permanent I don't think there is much to worry about on that front.

I was concerned about the infection issue too but as the wrap is (theoretically) at least, breathable, this seems to be less of a problem. Hopefully the improvements will far outweigh the chance of any infection. Isn't cleantrax supposed to be the all-powerful bug killing stuff anyway? Plus I think the cream is fairly powerful stuff.

[Iron Maiden]

The 1975 Farriers (Registration) Act 1975 defines 'farriery' as 'any work in connection with the preparation or treatment of the foot of a horse for the immediate reception of a shoe thereon, the fitting by nailing or otherwise of a shoe to the foot or the finishing off of such work to the foot'.

I think it would be seriously stretching this definition to interpret the application of a wrap as a 'shoe', particularly as there seems to be a presumption that nails are required to fit it.

This is a statutory instrument, therefore any breach of it would need to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt in court. Any lawyer with half a brain would make mincemeat of someone who tried to push a case against an EP on the strength of this legislation IMO.

[Roofio]

and to be honest, if it helps my horse, i'll carry on having them anyway! ;)

[Iron Maiden]

You risk taking law breaking goodfornuthin lowlife Roofio :eek::mad:;):D

[Roofio]

i know - shocking aint it!

what should be illegal is what various farriers have done to him in the past!

and also the phrase "oh he's a brilliant farrier because the shoes stay on for 8 weeks" should be punishable by having hoss shoes thrown at your head! :cool:

[MelanieD]

Interesting! Have heard of these but only seen the positive reports on KC's own sites so far, will be interesting to see how you get on..

I think the legality comes down to the definition of a shoe. Simple enough when that law was written but since confused by the wide variety of materials available now and glue-on shoes. Since the wrap is attached to the foot and left on for weeks at a time it could possibly be considered a shoe but I guess whether that causes legal problems or not really depends on if the FRC decide to do something about it and what a court then decides..

[Iron Maiden]

Do the FRC enforce the Act? If it's Crown enforced one of the key principles is whether any prosecution would be in the public interest. I think you'd be hard pressed to argue there's any public interest if there isn't actually any harm arising from the alleged breach. In any case, generally the courts are surprisingly pragmatic & sensible, despite what the tabloids say. IMO it's clear that the intent of the legislation was to prevent clueless people from bashing nails into horse's hooves, & preventing people from sticking a wrap on is surely not what was intended by it. You could always argue that a hoof boot could be left on indefinitely and constitutes a 'shoe', in which case I'm guilty as charged m'lud :o

[MelanieD]

I thought the FRC were involved in prosecutions, or at least had a big influence in who got prosecuted for illegal farriery, could be wrong though.

Its not a normal used for hoof boots to be used for weeks at a time without removing them at all, and unless foamed onto the foot they're strapped on rather than actually attached to the wall.. so IMO the PHW is different from a boot. Will be interesting to see what happens and if the similarity to a shoe does cause problems...

[No_Angel]

This looks really interesting.

I have had a quick look on the net and found a bit on info about it, but could anyone tell me any more about it?

Roofio, what made you decide to try it? Are you using it to promote hoof growth or to try and protect the hoof?

[senjj]

as far as I am aware the legality issue has been sorted. we're the only country in Europe left with this law and as the wrap isn't permanent I don't think there is much to worry about on that front.

I was concerned about the infection issue too but as the wrap is (theoretically) at least, breathable, this seems to be less of a problem. Hopefully the improvements will far outweigh the chance of any infection. Isn't cleantrax supposed to be the all-powerful bug killing stuff anyway? Plus I think the cream is fairly powerful stuff.

Sadly the legality issue hasn't been sorted at all and for the moment this wrap is being considered a 'shoe' by the relevant powers that be. It may be that a statement will be made to the effect that it IS outside the farriers act, but members of the EPA have been advised to seek legal advice before fitting the PHW. It is under review and I am waiting for the final verdict.

[Iron Maiden]

Is there decided case law though? If not, it's up to the courts, not the powers that be in the farriery industry, to define the interpretation of a 'shoe'. Trouble is that case law requires a test case, which means some poor bugger gets hauled before the Courts & potentially has to pay a fortune in legal fees.

When the 1975 Act was passed, the people who drafted it could not have foreseen the developments that have happened over the last 30+ years. I would have thought that a few letters to MPs could be in order here because until the law is properly clarified, the farriery industry can effectively bully EPs with the threat of an obsolete & irrelevent bit of legislation.

[Rips]

Ooh will be interesting to see how he gets on with the wraps.

[Roofio]

This looks really interesting.

I have had a quick look on the net and found a bit on info about it, but could anyone tell me any more about it?

Roofio, what made you decide to try it? Are you using it to promote hoof growth or to try and protect the hoof?

I don't know a fat lot about it myself other than it's supposed to be pretty good! it's not going to do any harm at least so it's worth a go. He's at a stage now where we've come to a bit of a stop and he needs a boost to get some more improvements and hopefully these will provide that.

I decided to try it based on our EP's recommendations and my hope is that it will help get some concavity back and improve his frogs and heels, as well as promote growth, which is still quite slow. To be honest, if it does anything, that's a bonus :cool:

The 'legality' issue is ridiculous, that's all i have to say!

[atillathefun]

This thread is very interestin to me as I had my horses shoes taken off today and bought what I think is one of these wraps off my farrier incase the feet become uncomfortable.
They are available on the market for anyone to buy and fit but reading this I am not sure!
Is it the wrap that has gel on it and you put water on it to make it go hard??
It does say the web address on it - I will have a look later and post it

[MelanieD]

It does get soaked in water and hardens up. There's equicasts as well, they're a similar idea but not exactly the same.

Roofio - How is J getting on with his so far?

[Roofio]

sounds similar, attila :)

they are coming off on friday but so far i am very impressed. he has got his confidence back if nothing else (pushed through hedge to next field, closely followed by Dylan the day after he had them on :rolleyes:) and is striding out beautifully on grass, lost his stiffness behind, i think because he's not feeling his front feet so much.

he's in the ideal conditions for them in that he only has to walk across of a tiny bit of hardcore and stand on concrete if i bring him out the field, so wear has been minimal. could be my imagination/wishful thinking but i think there seems to be a bit of growth too, fingers crossed!

[chickflick1066]

Roof breaks the law! I'm telling ;) :p

[Roofio]

and ponies break the bank :p

[chickflick1066]

Just get rid! Thats what I did...(only kidding of course!)

[Iron Maiden]

Don't worry, I've called the cops ;)

[Roofio]

oh well, maybe they'll impound the neddies as evidence and i can finally go on holiday :cool:

CF - how cruel of you to say such a thing, you know i've tried desperately to give my two away but noone wants them, show off.

[senjj]

This thread is very interestin to me as I had my horses shoes taken off today and bought what I think is one of these wraps off my farrier incase the feet become uncomfortable.
They are available on the market for anyone to buy and fit but reading this I am not sure!
Is it the wrap that has gel on it and you put water on it to make it go hard??
It does say the web address on it - I will have a look later and post it

If it was supplied by a farrier, you are fine. The law says that only a farrier can prepare the foot for a shoe, so the problem is actually any trimming the practioner does. If your farriers trims the foot for the application of the product, you are fine.

[MelanieD]

Isn't it illegal to shoe as well as prepare a foot for a shoe? If the act of attaching 'a shoe' by a non-farrier is illegal and the PHW is considered a shoe (which isn't clear yet) then for someone other than a farrier to put it on is illegal whoever does the trimming.

If it is PHW or similar and farriers are handing it out for owners to use then there's some hope its legal for non-farriers to apply :)

[Iron Maiden]

OK lets look at what the Act actually says shall we. Section 16 states:

Offences by unregistered persons
(1)Subject to the provisions of this section it shall be unlawful—
(a)for a person who is not registered in the register to carry out any farriery

It goes on to exempt certain peeps, eg vets, those carrying out emergency first aid to the horse, trainee/apprentice farriers.

So what is "farriery"?

The Act states: “farriery” means any work in connection with the preparation or treatment of the foot of a horse for the immediate reception of a shoe thereon, the fitting by nailing or otherwise of a shoe to the foot or the finishing off of such work to the foot;

So if we are regarding the wrap as a 'shoe' (frankly any lawyer worth their fee could drive a juggernaut through that one IMO), the person who is applying it by 'nailing or otherwise' (presumably 'otherwise) is carrying out "farriery" as defined by the Act and is breaking the law. Furthermore, those farriers who sell wraps to their clients are therefore clearly conniving in a breach of the law.

Come on Senjj, you seem to be interpreting the Act to suit yourself here, and IMO what you posted is legally incorrect.