Concerned - warm feet and footy

[Montana]

Monty's still struggling this week with being footsore. He's ok on grass, marginally better on concrete than he was (but still not great), and really hobbly on stone.

My EP's coming out tonight to have a look and see if he can shed any light on things.

I'm hoping it's not LGL, although I think that's a strong possibility. His feet are warm and pulses are slightly raised. His pulses are always a bit up and down to be honest, and I know they raise when he's in any pain from feet, they even came up when he had shoulder pain. But it's not right....

He lives out 24/7. My biggest fear is that I have to stable him - he hates it so much. Can cope if other horses are in, and it's just overnight (he's been in for about 8 nights this winter), but the thought of having to keep him confined now or all through the summer is horrific. And if I bring him in now and things improve with feet, well, then what? Keep him in permanently?:eek:

He's on D&H Safe and Sound, just half a scoop to mix Sarc-ex with. I used to feed magnesium, but it never seemed to have the slightest effect on him.

What can I be doing to help? He's unfit, and still slightly overweight, although he's lost a decent amount over the winter.

I only started bringing him back into work 2 weekends ago, I'd broken my arm and hadn't ridden for 6 weeks. We've been doing 20 -30 minute sessions, mostly in walk, 10 mins trotting in the arena twice last weekend. Could that be part of it? Any work outside of the arena he was either wearing front boots, or boots all round. Should I increase exercise, with boots or on sand, or reduce it??

Any ideas/suggestions on how to manage this?

[Showjumper]

I'd be inclined to treat it as laminitis, restrict turnout (not necessarily stable but if you have a dirt patch or can turn him out in the arena, that would be better than a field as the grass has definitely started shooting up again), soak hay and exercise as much as possible on soft ground.

[Yann]

It does sound like LGL to me I'm afraid :( Taking shoes off can sometimes open a can of worms... Both my horses are currently stomping but both have been in Monty's position previously. It's one thing I'm not looking forward to about the spring.

It does seem early in the year for there to be such an effect, but I daresay that depends on your grazing. I would personally pop him back on magnesium, at quite a decent dose, and see if it helps at all. You do also need to try and limit grass intake in whatever way you can, but that's easier said than done on most livery yards. Is stabling overnight and muzzling during the day an option? Other than that I'd get him comfortable in boots and pads and get him working as much as possible.

[MelanieD]

Does sound like LGL. Its possible to manage it without stabling, I've got one that's had LGL out 24/7 nearly all summer with just a muzzle during the day occasionally. There are ways around it other than stabling, small bit of field, muzzle.

Magnesium may be worth trying again but might not work if it didn't do anything before. Did nothing to help mine, have actually had less LGL with them off it. Worth trying IMO but would go for no more than 5g to start with rather than going straight to lots of it. Salt can help some horses as well, has worked well on mine, I feed 15ml a day. But most important thing is to cut down on what's causing the problem, grass or whatever else in diet it could be, rather then feeding lots of extra supplements to try to get away with it.

[Roofio]

would him and star buddy up in that barn bit overnight that star was in before? or is it too small for 2 of them?

would he cope with being muzzled?

i don't know much about lgl - could he just be sore from doing a bit more work? poor chap

[Montana]

Drat - where's the easy fix answer one of you was supposed to give me:rolleyes::D

I think I'll just have to figure a way around him being out full time, he's just a very stressy horse and becomes really tough to keep level when he's like that.

Roof - he could go in with Star, there used to be two in there and it's plenty big enough, but he's so mean:eek: Star would be permanently hassled/booted/stuck in corners. I might try it on a limited basis and see how they get on, but I don't know if it'll work. Otherwise, I'll probably stable Star overnight in Monty's stable, put Monty in the barn which is much bigger and has neighbours he can touch both sides. I don't really like the idea of stabling Star, but I guess he could then go in the barn for the day if M goes out. And he (star) is starting to be able to go out in a small field for part of the day.

Melanie - How exactly do you manage yours out at grass? Just monitor and let them out if symptomless?

Yann - the grazing is nothing at the moment. Really sparse hillside scrub. I wouldn't have thought it could cause this?

What about haylage? It's all that's available on the farm, is this ok to feed if he's in? Or do I need to find hay?

I usually give him ad-lib forage while in, can I still do this? Would hate to think of him stood for hours with nothing to eat.

[Showjumper]

I think soaked hay would be better than haylage...

[Yann]

Yann - the grazing is nothing at the moment. Really sparse hillside scrub. I wouldn't have thought it could cause this?

Doesn't sound like it ought to be then, unless he's susceptible to frosty grass, or there's something else that doesn't agree with him. Not good. It's not possible that he's bruised his soles on the hard frozen ground is it? That might be another explanation. I'd personally still feed ad lib in the stable, but agree hay might be a better bet.

Drat - where's the easy fix answer one of you was supposed to give me

If someone lets you have one please pass it on...

[**jet**]

dont know much about lgl does sound like lammi though we have had two mares go down with it in last month! very acute and tthe grazing they were was just mud to my eye but vet said grass must be coming through, hope hes better soon

[senjj]

Can you muzzle? Just spoken to Nick, he's on his way to you now.

[MelanieD]

Melanie - How exactly do you manage yours out at grass? Just monitor and let them out if symptomless?

Roxy is out most of the time. She mostly goes out on fields where other horses have eaten all the best bits already. We're lucky that our grazing seems to be reasonably safe. She's watched very carefully for footyness, her digital pulses aren't very reliable because there's one I can always find if i hunt enough which varies while the others are not detectable at all. Smallest hint of ouching or not wanting to trot uphill on hacks or standing too far under with back legs and she's muzzled. If she's on a field that has too much grass then she gets muzzled in the day and has it taken off at night. Last year she only had to be stabled twice all summer and one of those was more because Mia was in injured so fatso got to keep her company instead of being muzzled. Fortunatly she's a delicate little drama queen so will complain even if its not too bad so can spot any problems very early. She was getting less sensitive towards the end of last summer so easier to manage.

My other two were watched carefully for a while as well but neither one turned out to be sensitive to grass. Jay looked like something LGLish had happened before I got her but hasn't shown any signs of having problems with grass and Mia's suspicous growth ring was just from antibiotics.

[Montana]

Ok, so EP has been (thanks for the advance warning Justine:D).

It's LGL:( On the plus side, his feet are much less warm and pulses are way down on where they have been.

But his hind feet were sensitive to the hoof testers, mostly around the toes, but a little on the heels. Front feet, very slight reaction, nothing like the backs.

Nick checked the way he was walking very carefully and noticed that his right hind is landing a little short, but we agreed that this was to do with the right hip tighness I already know about and am treating.

His recommendation was to keep him out, but muzzle for a good part of the time, day time. So starting tomorrow he's going to be wearing the Lecter mask, and I'll just have to cope with the little temper tantrum he'll get himself into, while pretending he can't eat:rolleyes:

I need to continue to exercise as much as he can cope with, we'll start in the school and work there for a week or so, then gradually do a bit more out and about. EP suggested using just back boots, will give that a try. He's also getting me some MagOx at the weekend, thinks that could help things

I'll see how he gets on over the next week or so. If things don't improve, I'll bring him in for half of the day and see how he goes with that.

Glad we caught it now though. I would have missed it if he'd been shod.

[Showjumper]

Great that you know what you're dealing with and have a plan, and you're right, with shoes you probably wouldn't have known...

[Yann]

I would have missed it if he'd been shod.

It's highly likely you already did in previous years, there's no reason to think the same thing hasn't already been happening. Shoes mask it very well, both by keeping the sole off the ground and limiting expansion. It's possibly arguable that LGL symptoms are the main reason many horses need shoeing rather than excess wear or weakness in the feet :)

[Montana]

Nice change tonight - two of his feet were stone cold for the first time in a couple of weeks. Oddly, it was both lefts:rolleyes:

The pulses, as you might expect, were also almost indetectible on the lefts, and definitely reduced, and not as warm on the rights. The main change I've made is to have him muzzled all day, from 7 - 6. He's also been worked every day in the school.

Seems to be starting to calm things down anyway. Hopefully the frost expected tonight won't have an impact, since I'm back in work and he'll be muzzled before it's light:rolleyes::D

[Roofio]

good news:)

[Showjumper]

Great news! :D

[AengusOg]

It's worth remembering that Laminitis can be caused by things other than grass. Stress for example.........

[Montana]

It's worth remembering that Laminitis can be caused by things other than grass. Stress for example.........

Mental or Physical?

Physically, we're taking it very slowly and steadily, haven't yet moved into working in anything other than short periods of jog, and mostly in walk.

Mentally, this is a horse I've been working with for the past 7/8 years, focusing almost entirely on having him be able to relax and be much less stressed in life:D Right now, he's the most settled I've ever seen him, quiet, thoughtful. Lives out 24/7 with a regular herd, has overcome his seperation anxiety to a large extent for the first time ever within the last 6 months, and is generally a much happier horse than I've ever seen. So I'd be extremely surprised if this was the case. 2 years ago, absolutely, but not now. He's turning into Mr Mellow on me at long last:)