Kick before squeeze?

[cwb]

Hovis was being a bit slow today so I tapped him behind my leg as I asked for more impulsion - nothing! Again I did it and again - nothing. RI said to tap him on the opposite shoulder - well that isn't easy with a schooling whip, but as soon as the whip came into his sight he was off like a pocket rocket - RI still insisted I actually hit him though!

Blimey - we were already faster than he has ever trotted before when I tapped him very lightly with the whip, so here I am with both reins in one hand, the whip across his neck, rising to the trot and I swear he had all four hooves off the ground as we shot forward :eek:

Next time I just waved the whip into his sight and we were off - almost into canter - then we did canter and the RI wanted me to kick him on, so I squeezed hard like I usually do and we carried on at a nice canter, "kick him" she said, I said "I prefer to squeeze as I upsets my balance less" and she said "you can't squeeze until you learn to kick"

So what do you think? Do you have to learn to kick in canter before your squeezes are effective?

I must say that next canter I kicked when she asked me to and Hovis certainly speeded up in canter and his canter is pretty quick anyway!

[Snow_Pony]

How long have you been riding? And is Hovis yours?

xxx

[cwb]

I returned to riding 6 months ago and have ridden twice a week - Hovis is one of the RS horses.

[PonyGirlAsh]

You can't squeeze until you learn to kick? Never heard that one...

I prefer to show or tap with the whip rather than kicking incessantly, as I find that many horses will get fed up and start ignoring the leg that way.

[kaytenherponies]

:eek: good lord I have never heard that before. I was taught to squeeze then back it up with a kick or tap with the whip if he didn't listen. Maybe you could ask her why it is you have to learn 2 kick first she may have a logical explanation for it.

[cwb]

Her explanation seemed to centre around having to be ABLE to do it - not that it was necessarily the best way - she said that even at her level when cantering into a jump she needed to be able to give a big kick if necessary.

Seemed to be more about improving balance.

[Snow_Pony]

The instructor sounds interesting - I would love to hear her reasoning behind insisting you smack the pony after it has already moved forward, and telling you to kick when squeezing is having the desired effect!

xxx

[cwb]

She isn't my regular RI that does my private lessons and I don't get the kick, kick, kick approach from her.

I have noticed that today's RI is very keen on "big" kicks.

I don't think I will be getting today's RI to do my private lessons when my regular RI leaves in a couple of weeks!

[Snow_Pony]

Of course improving balance is always good, but kicking when not needed isnt, as Im sure you know! Surely the aim of teaching is to gradually make the aids more subtle, amongst other things.. Unfortunately you get both good and bad instructors :(

xxx

[Shire Monster]

My RI is often shoutin at me to kick but the girl I ride isn't exactly forward going. Even though she's not a forward horse she always gets the benefit of the doubt i.e. squeeze, nudge, kick, tap as a last resort, if a squeeze works then its a bonus if not I get tougher with her, RI always lets me try to get her goin before I get shouted at 'give her a good kick' working on transistions for 5 minutes at the beginning gets her responsive to the leg so RI always does this first to get her listening.
Don't understand your RI logic though, as someone else suggested ask her reasoning behind it, there may be hidden logic there somewhere

[sheltiegroomer]

Don't understand the logic??!!! I've ridden some ponies that if you kicked them they would shoot you straight out the back door and bomb off...others that really do need a good kick to get working well.. I think sometimes it depends on the horse...some horses require only the slightest tickle with the leg,others a huge squeeze and some a big kick!!!...

[cwb]

some horses require only the slightest tickle with the leg,others a huge squeeze and some a big kick!!!...

exactly! and Hovis is a good squeeze type of horse once he is working off your leg

I think part of the problem is that I didn't have the time to do my usual halt walk transitions so he wasn't listening! So my squeeze wasn't working! But I will use the whip waving again even if I don't hit him with it.

Actually I find a flick of the reins is easier and just as effective as a tap with the whip.

[Joyscarer]

I find consistencey in presure is the way to go.

1. A gentle nudge
2. A more insistant nudge
3. A tap with the chooling whip.

This is the way to lighten the aids required for the horse. They aren't thick and soon realise that if they go on the lighter request then the more insistant ones aren't required.

Of coarse all this becomse more difficult if it is a horse you don't ride very often but this is how I start. Even the more sluggish RS horses I rode would realise that :)

[Belle Rider]

Even though she's not a forward horse she always gets the benefit of the doubt i.e. squeeze, nudge, kick, tap as a last resort, if a squeeze works then its a bonus if not I get tougher with her, RI always lets me try to get her goin before I get shouted at 'give her a good kick' working on transistions for 5 minutes at the beginning gets her responsive to the leg so RI always does this first to get her listening.

I agree with this method of riding - start with a squeeze, then a nudge, then a bigger nudge, then a tap of the whip. Some RS horses are a dream to ride - they respond to the lightest squeeze in the right place whereas others need a good strong nudge or a tap of the whip. But it's always best to get lots of walk halt and trot transitions in to wake them up at the start, then you can avoid being overly harsh with them.

My RI always tells me to 'nudge, nudge, nudge' to keep the horse going - she's never told me to give it a good kick and don't think she agrees with this way of riding (neither do I). If all else fails give them a tap of the whip using a long schooling whip - the slightest flick can get them moving most the time.

[Tonto]

i hadn't heard of flicking the reins but it sounds like a good alternative to me. i've just been reading your blog (cwb) and was wondering what EE is that you've been reading? i too have been riding lots of different horses and ponies at the rs and would love some reading material which may help.

[FX5]

In NH they teach that the mare teaches the foal in 4 stages....Ask then Tell..then Warn then Touch. I would understand the "good kick" as the Touch phase and certainly not the opening request.

[mistysmum]

I have to agree with FX5 - kick is most surely last. I was always taught squeeze/nudge/remind (gentle stick behind the outside leg)
I also think the comments about the hose lurching off either through fright or due to the 'sudden' instruction are worth considering too
;)MM

[cwb]

Tonto,

Sorry - EE is Enlightened Equitation by Heather Moffet - follow the link on this Board under "Kinder way" - http://www.newrider.com/Kinder_Way/philosophy.html

[Tonto]

thanks that's just the kind of reading material i'm after:)