relationship building advice

[yph]

does anyone have any ideas on how to rebuild /build a relationship with my horse that has gone sour.

[Snow_Pony]

Could you give us a little more information? :)

xxx

[doris]

Firstly - why has your horse gone sour? Do you know?

In what way/s does your horse show his displeasure? Is it a temperament thing, or doesn't want to work?

[Lili & Morgan]

One/ stop doing what made your horse sour. bad riding? bad handling?
Maybe look for professional help to find the source of the behaviour.

Two/ TIME TIME spending time with your horse, in-hand grazing, hanging in his stable. Surprise your horse : give him a carrot a scratch then leave his stall/paddock without asking anyhtnig from himetc ...
Just time, LOTS of time.

[Francis Burton]

Yes, lots of time, with no pressure or expectations or trying to make any kind of point except that it's nice having you around.

If the horse really doesn't like you, and even your presence quickly becomes irksome or stressful, start with very short pleasant visits (carrots help!) and let the horse have a think about it in his/her own time.

But I would like to know what you mean by "sour", yph.

[yph]

thank s
sorry about the delay in replying, by sour i mean lost its spark, he is not horrible to me but isnt that interested in me either- no concentration - oh its her again attitude, just want to start again, make a good relationship.

[Crystal Fire]

Find the scratchy places, and scratch. Seriously, it works every time for me, it might take a while before they realise you're good for scratching, but when they do then they look at you in a whole different light.

[Joyscarer]

Echo Crystal here :D

Spend lots of undemanading time with your horse doing things he wants/likes to do and cut the exercising to a minimum needed to maintain fitness.

I like to take Joy out on in hand walks to find new grazing.

I don't groom her loads because she is grass kept and doesn't tend to see the grooming process as fun.

She likes to freeschool too so I use that as one of my exercise options and hack in as many different places as I can.

She likes poles to and likes to jump so find out what your horse prefers work wise and alternate.

Also just spending time in the paddock with the herd. The others tend to come up to me for tickles and Joy then decides that she is my mum and comes over too. It sometimes takes that extra bit of jealousy for her decide that I'm her and she wants me!

The trouble is that during winter so many of us only get to spend demanding time with our horses where we expect them to work, it's no wonder they lose their sparkle and fun of being with us. :(

[Portia]

Another vote for scratching!

I think the light-bulb moment for B was when we were in the field together, I could see she was trying to reach a particularly itchy patch just out of reach on her mid-back... so I reached over and did it for her.
The look she gave me, sort of 'so you are useful after all'. Her attitude changed noticably from then, and our bond continues to grow. I just remember that particular moment, for something as simple as paying attention to and responding to her needs, that she 'accepted' me, and now actively seeks me out to be near me.

[Bryony.X]

You could try join up with your horse its a really good excercise to bond with your horse:D and also for it to gain your trust also spend lots of time talking to him and grooming him hope it helps :D:D xX

[Meovcorz]

NO spark? I would say - he/she thinks your boring - and spending time with you is boring, try to bring new things into your time with him/her and add a whole new dimension to your time with him. And yes - grooming is really good. But when teaching new things bring them in slowly - add a little bit every day - he'll think your really interesting and exciting to be around.

I f he has lost any weight at all - I would be checking his medical health out.

[Chukka]

playing is a fantastic way of getting a horse to even join up with you.

At my old yard everybody used to come groom and then ride their horses. Not one of them spent time in the school just playing. I spent at least 3 times a week not riding and just playing. I would loose school him for 10 minutes and then call him to me and he would follow me around like a dog over poles and small jumps. moving round the school. going backwards and enjoying the time we had together.

[Kirsty5278]

Sounds like you need to reassess your leadership skills... make him want to be with you and that its happier/safer/easier to be with you....

I use lots of games(nh groundwork), massage and going out for walks in hand...

Me and my boy play tag which we both love!:p

I never bothered with join up... it didn't work for us, but the games did! I get the same chew and licking response and then the following...

I got a lot of ideas from "101 naturalhorsemanship exercises" Fab book!! :)

Good luck...

[Francis Burton]

Can we list the individual leadership skills, and identify the one(s) that will help specifically with "sourness"?

I used to play tag with Lucky, my TB - called it "chasing games". It was good fun. It could have been my imagination, but I was sure at the time that these games made him bolder with other horses, and a bit less of a loner - though it didn't stop him from staying in the field when all the others left through the gate which opened by vandals one night! :eek:

[levi1739]

Can we list the individual leadership skills, and identify the one(s) that will help specifically with "sourness"?

Feel and Timing,


Keep on, keepin on

Jack

[yph]

what do you mean!

[wonkeywoody]

Leadership - getting your horse to move his feet while you remain stood still - this can be close up progressing to a 50ft gap between you!
Feel and timing come with practise - at the start you will probably find your 'aids' are rather exaggerrated to get your horse to move but the instance he TRIES you release the pressure. When your 'aids' become fine tuned you still release the pressure.
Have a read at www.iceryder.net/7games for a fairly indepth description of the games and the cues................
Have fun, remember this is not schooling, its playing and it doesnt matter if things are not perfect!

[Francis Burton]

Wonkywoody - You describe getting your horse to move his feet while you remain stood still as a game. I am wondering if the horse would normally consider this to be playing, or under what circumstances he would do so. Does it matter how you play the feet-moving game? Or is it a game just for the human's point of view?

[levi1739]

Leadership - getting your horse to move his feet while you remain stood still

What if I want the horse to stand still while I move around him?

this can be close up progressing to a 50ft gap between you!

What if the horse is further away and out of my sight and I want him to move his feet?

Both examples happen with my horses often. :)

Without "feel and timing" the horse has nothing to go on. Without it, the horse can't have trust.

Keep on, keepin on

Jack

[Joyscarer]

What if I want the horse to stand still while I move around him?



I use placiong for that.

If Joy moves when i want her to stand still then she patiently get placed back where she moved from.

A few goes at that and she gets fed up and stands still :)

[Francis Burton]

What if I want the horse to stand still while I move around him?
Can't you use leadership for that?

I guess I'm feeling a bit ignorant about what leadership actually is - or at least how it's defined in NH.

[Meovcorz]

I have to agree that feel and timing is very very huge.

[levi1739]

My grown son had some experience with relationships and horses last week. We attended an auction and took the opportunity too visit the barns where horses are left unattended in stalls. This provided a chance for us to “meet” unknown (to us)horses.:rolleyes:

My son has been working hard on developing his timing and ‘anticipation of release’ with horses and he’s becoming quite good at “reading their intent”. When he first entered a stall he was consistent in gaining the horses attention by a couple of methods which were determined by the horse. First, if the horse “looked at him” (two eyes) he immediately exhaled and softened his body language. If that didn’t work, he would then try some “quick motion” with his hands or body to gain the horses attention, again exhaling and softening his posture at the first correct response. If needed, he would “clap his hands” but he never had to use that much pressure for attention. (while I did on one)

Once the horse gave “two eyes”, my son would ask the horse to take one step backwards by placing his hand on the horses nose. Some horses immediately stepped back while others provided a bit of resistance to the pressure on their nose, but each horse eventually did take that “one step back” and again, each was rewarded with a visible exhale and release of the pressure on their nose.

After accomplishing “one step back”, he asked the horse to “lower it’s head” by placing pressure on the horse’s poll, and maintaining that pressure until the horse lowered it’s head. This drop of the head was sometimes hard to see, especially if the horse was very resistant and tossing it’s head around, up and down but by rewarding the “smallest lowering” with a quick release of the pressure on the horses poll and a “loud exhale”, each and every horse quickly understood and willingly lowered it’s head.

In each case the change was apparent in the horse’s demeanor. Every horse (20 maybe) “lowered it’s head and exhaled”, becoming a mimic of my son’s actions and indicating an understanding of this human. A good relationship was already obvious between them and it was based on trust and honesty. This happened because of the handlers “feel and timing” and it didn’t take long with any of these horses. Heck, the horses already knew about this stuff , it’s the nature of the horse (NH?) and my son’s been working pretty hard at it himself.

I don’t know much about some of the "horse psychology" that people mention, I do know that with “feel and timing” every horse has all it needs to succeed in having a relationship with a human and those relationships always start the same way in our barn,

First, attention
Second, one step back
Third, lower the head

And don’t forget to “exhale loudly” and “soften” with each success.:)


Keep on, keeping on

Jack

[Bling]

Wow, Jack, that was great (I envy your son his good teacher!) I really have to underline "First, attention"! That's exactly where I get slack --- I start stuff and I don't always have that First-Attention! Sounds so simple; but it's easy to think just because I'm ready to play games, my horse is ready too.:o

[LindaAd]

My grown son had some experience with relationships and horses last week. We attended an auction and took the opportunity too visit the barns where horses are left unattended in stalls. This provided a chance for us to “meet” unknown (to us)horses.:rolleyes:

<snip>

And don’t forget to “exhale loudly” and “soften” with each success.:)

Jack

That bit about the exhaling and softening looks valuable - I shall add it to my 'kit',

For me the key was releasing the pressure at the slightest movement. That was like switching on a light for me with stroppy Ginny - it was if she suddenly said "Oh, she talks my language, I can understand her, she's not a waste of space after all'. Although a few well-timed fragments of Polo did help to get her attention at the beginning ...