clicker people.... help?

[michelle c]

what do you do when your horse ignores the clicker? :confused:

my mare loves the training, BUT, when i long rein her some times usually in trot she ignores when i click and still keeps trotting? SOOOOO i click again and sometimes 4 clicks before she stops for a treat?!!!! :confused:

am i doing the right thing, AND does she hear the clicks and choose not to get a treat because she knows she is doing the right thing and just likes the praise of the clicker?!!!!!:o

one of the main reasons for asking thisis that i have got her to do a real steady collected trot and want to progress to a slow collected canter, BUT if she ignores the clicker i will have a hard time telling her when she is right and to STOP when it is collected!!!!!

can any one help me?

[sheltiegroomer]

right I may be totally wrong here and someone please correct me ..pm me even to tell me the correct way but I use my clicker with my horse the same way I do with my dogs...to reinforce correct positve behaviour...for example if I want a 'stand' and not move at all even thou no lead rope... I say stand ,,if my horse complies then I will click and reward with a treat.... I keep doing this for a number of times ..correct behaviour- click- reward so he gets the idea... oh you want me to stay still when you say stand because when I do I hear the click and I get a treat... gradually making the treats less and less ..so that sometimes he stands and I just click and give him praise and a stroke...... I am ultimately looking for him to respond to my voice cue so that I can just use my voice to get the desired outcome.... the click for me is purely a way of reinforcing the fact that 'yes that is what I want you to do' not to ask for it....
However I may very well be wrong... as my method of using the clicker comes from my dog training.,..for eg with the dogs to teach roll over I put the treat over to the side and get them to lie down, take the treat over their head and they usually roll with nose following it...as they do this I click and pop the treat in their mouth..the click for me is to say yes thats it!...

Please someone tell me if I am wrong thou!

So if i am right ???!!! small possibility I would go back to asking for the walk from trot when long reining..when she does walk I would say walk then click the immediate she does and then treat....it will start most likely with being her stopping because she wants to and then progress to her stopping because she hears the verbal cue then the click then gets the treat...??!!

[Pink's lady]

Pretty much what I think sheltiegroomer said (lack of structure makes it hard to read!)

You're not using the click properly.

The click is NOT a cue to do something, it is to mark the correct behaviour so they know the action they've just done is correct and is about to receive a reward for it.

You need to give a cue to produce the correct action THEN you click so she knows what she did was correct.

Firstly you need to teach her that the click means a reward is coming.

Then, in this situation, you ASK her to stop (with your voice, body language or pressure) and when she responds correctly (and it needs to be instant - that's the whole point of a clicker) you click and reward.

[michelle c]

oh sorry i didnt phrase the question right!!!!!!

i started clicker training from the beginning. she knows that the click means she has done the correct behaviour that earns her a treat, and i know it is not cueing the behaviour. :p the problem is, is that i am clicking to tell her she has got it right, but, she is recieving no reward if she is ignoring the clicker.

i will try to explain better,
senario~ long reining
she is stood still, click treat
i ask her to walk she does, click treat
i ask her to walk then trot, she does click treat
i ask her to walk trot (in a collected frame) click...... she keeps going......click.......she keeps going.......click.. oh you are telling me i was doing the right thing, where is my treat then!!! (this last bit is when my mare realises she gets a treat when she hears the click)

i hope this explaines what is happening a bit better!!!

[sheltiegroomer]

[QUOTE=Pink's lady;1600590]Pretty much what I think sheltiegroomer said (lack of structure makes it hard to read!)

QUOTE]
That'll teach me for trying to do 3 things at once! Would you believe it I am a teacher as well!! ha ha ha!

[Bay Mare]

Some horses seem to see the 'click' as the reward and the treat as the bonus. We've noticed this with Saff, especially in the summer when the grass is plentiful. She's more than happy to carry on and forgo the treat. Even if you give her the treat she doesn't always take it. The offering of the treat seems to be reward enough.

It may be worth going back to basics just to 'recharge' the clicker so that you're 100% sure that she's understanding the function of the click.

Saying that, though, it depends how you train it. You don't have to always treat with the click (as long as the horse understands the parameters). This is especially useful for stringing things together without stopping or for when you're doing distance work and don't want them legging it over to you when you click.

As an example, I've used the 'click, click, click/treat' when teaching Saff to copy. She crosses and uncrosses <click>, crosses and uncrosses <click>, crosses and uncrosses <click and treat>. She understands that the click is 'yes, that's right' and that the click/treat is the end of the exercise.

As PL says, though, the click isn't the cue so maybe it's worth looking at how you've been using it. Maybe get someone experienced in clicker to come in as another pair of eyes, they may be able to spot something that you've overlooked or aren't aware of.

In your situation I'd go back to basics and do some targetting work to make sure that she still understands the principles.


Good luck :)

[Yann]

In the long run presumably you don't want her to stop for a treat every time you click? It sounds like she might have got to the stage where she's thinking 'OK, I'm doing the right thing', and the click has become associated with the reward. If I understand you correctly I would stop clicking so much, just do it the once when she's done what you've asked and leave it at that, until you ask for something else.

Once things are established you need to randomise your treating anyway (variable reinforcement schedule / national lottery effect), so not every correct action gets a treat.

With the canter my guess would be that you need to keep going step by step, establish a cue for canter before establishing a further one for collection.

[michelle c]

thanx bay mare that explaines it a bit better.

after that particular longreining session that she ignored the clicker, i took off all her tack to cool down and have a bit of fun!!!!! :D:D:D
i asked her to target some jump blocks that were out and she did, as soon as i clicked she came to me for a treat, so i know she fully understands the reward comes after the click. i decided to play a game called 'guess what i wand you to do with the blocks? at first she just touched them, so click/ treat, in the end she was pushing all the blocks over which is what i wanted. i did click and treat all the way along as she offered more of the behaviour i wanted!!!! (by the way this is a big thing as she isnt a really playfull horse):p

then we played stay with me, and for the first time she would trot as fast as i was running then when i slowed down to a really slow jog, she did as well!!!!!! i must have done this about 4 times and she stayed with me all the time and did not break gate!!!!!!:D

yann -my mare knows that when i say canter, she does, it is just that i would prefer to long rein it, and i dont think i could keep up with her normal fast canter :eek: so i thought i could click the first stepof canter and slowly build up the steady canter step by step, if you know what i mean!!!:)

[Yann]

i dont think i could keep up with her normal fast canter

Long line her on a circle :D You can still move with her but you won't have to go as fast.

Sounds like you know what you're doing anyway, and so does she :)

[michelle c]

thanx yann, i was starting to doubt my self when people were replying saying i wasnt using the clicker properly and that my mare didnt understand the clicker!! :o

i did get out of lungeing as i thought it could be quiet straining on her legs (cant ride her at the mo as am a bit heavy for her, so it is all ground work) so have been longreining out and in the school.

BUT the only time she gets "lunged" is when she is at liberty and trots around me about 3 laps one way and 3 the other. the thing is, is that she likes to trot close and when i say close, i can almost touch her :eek
sooooooo when i ask for canter i hope she will move out, and if not i will have to teach that aswell:rolleyes::D:D:D:D

[Kate F.]

p

then we played stay with me, and for the first time she would trot as fast as i was running then when i slowed down to a really slow jog, she did as well!!!!!! i must have done this about 4 times and she stayed with me all the time and did not break gate!!!!!!:D


This is perfectly normal and just means she has "hooked on" to your energy and body language. It's nothing to do with the clicker.

I think you might find this a more direct and clearer route for the long reining, rather than trying to do it all with the clicker. Following energy and body language is what horses do naturally - it's how they communicate with each other. The clicker has to be learned.

How about using the body language to show her what you want, and to sustain whatever it is, and just use the clicker as an additional reinforcement? When you want more collection, slow canter - whatever - just do it yourself, and she will mirror you. You don't need to tell her this is right - she knows that anyway - it's one of her deepest instincts. When you stop you can click/treat/stroke/scratch what ever you want as an additional reinforcement.

It sounds as though you are using the click to mean "stop and get a treat" - and she's interpreting it as "that's right - carry on doing what you're doing".
I think her interpretation is the more usual for clicker - as Bay Mare says, you don't necessarily want them to stop and look for a treat every time you click - the idea is that the click says "yes, that's right", not that it says " stop what you're doing, the snack bar is now open"! :D

With something like long reining, where you have the possibility to use the natural communication system very easily and effectively, I think you might as well use it - and just use the clicker alongside normal reinforcement at the end if you want to. As you've found out - clicker can be useful for teaching unusual behaviours - touching a target, pushing over a block etc. but for following energy exercises - it's a bit like trying to clicker train the horse to eat grass - it's something it does anyway, so doesn't really need to be clicked.

[MelanieD]

When you click and she doesn't stop do you still put your hand in the treat bag? One nice way to use clicker is to have the click as a signal for 'well done you're doing it right' but not the stop signal, and another signal like hand headed for bag as the 'stop and have a treat' signal. Actually works really nicely for a lot of things because the click doesn't always signal the end of the behaviour. Doing more complicated and longer duration things can be a pain in the backside if you can't click without horse immediately thinking 'we're done, hand it over' :)