Hips/legs sorted, now need to sort my lower back. Help?

[fimonkey]

Hi All,

I'm looking for advice and encouragement please. I've started taking weekly 1/2 hour private lessons at a RS (not on my pony however) and have discovered I really cannot ride. Previously I was in the classicle defensive hunter seat.

We've spent 8 weeks working on 'opening my hips', relaxing down through my legs and not collapsing forward in sitting or rising trot (which I tended to do when I opened my hips by bringing my leg back and heel down). I've worked on my lengthening my hamstrings to achieve this (straight leg toe touches etc) and now have a pretty good leg position with heels down.

Now my problem is my lower back, and I'm confused...

In sitting trot I am apparently tensing my lower back, though my legs hang fine. My RI is saying 'absorb the movement of the trot through your spine and relax' but when I realx fully in my torso I become a complete sack of spuds bouncing round on the horses back. If I try to absorb the movement (I literally close my eyes so I can feel the movement) I end up bouncing out of the saddle!

What exactly does she mean and how can I acheive a softer back with excericses off the horse?

Many thanks in advance

[puzzles]

I too would appreciate some advice on this as i'm struggling to achieve exactly the same thing!

:-)

x

[XmeganX]

i find when you are trying to absorb the movement of sitting trot (this helps me anyway might be worth a try):)

Imagine you have a bell on your belly button and your trying to ring it, so you,d be using your tummy muscles to ring it, do this n rythm with the horse your riding so it would be like ring ring ring ring this helps your lower back supple and absorb the movement if you do it properly it really works, give it a try!:o

[Joyscarer]

I do this in walk to get me used to what my back should feel like and help me to loosen up and develope the right muscles for the sitting trot when ready for it!

I try to think about having a piece of rope holding me up from the top of my hat so that I am sat up and not collapsing and then make sure that I am pulling my belly button towards my backbone so that my pelvis is not tipping forward.

Then when in sitting trot I simply make sure I'm not collapsing and let the horse move me rather than me moving myself. It seems to work for me :)

[Fanshawe]

Might also be worth seeing an osteo/chiro etc to make sure that your back is working so that it can relax in to the movement :) Have heard that using one of those exercise balls help too as you have to have a flexible but string back to be able to stay on one!

[tina1958]

I have major problems with the lower back thing. ( I have failed BHS stage 1 twice) I think it is something for the young. My back no longer absorbs anything.:mad::rolleyes:

[Packhorse12]

I would suggest making sure your seat is right first, it could be that your pelvis is not quite in the right position. it only needs to be a fraction wrong and the whole thing goes up the spout. You cannot really relax if you are not right there first. I just made a suggestion to someone else on another thread about this. I will see if I can post the link. It might help. It might not of course.

http://www.newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132525&page=2

The other thing to do is to make sure your bottom isn't sitting on the saddle like two rubber balls !!! Allow your bum to spread across the saddle ! This will drop you down into a more relaxed seat.

When you are in walk in your next lesson see if you can ask your instructor to talk you through relaxing each part of your body - from your eyebrows, ears down through your neck, your shoulders, upper arm, elbow and forarm wrists and hands and fingersm then small of your back, lower back stomach and seat. Then down your thighs and knees and calves and ankles and toes. Sometimes it helps to tighten each bit first and then relaxe it. Why not try it sitting in the chair first at home and then you know what to do when you get there on the horse.

Now that is all from me. I haven't been here for ages and ages (years I think actually)and seem to have stuck my nose in on loads of posts, sorry everyone if I have come on too strong and too many things to say. I have been teaching for more years than most on this board have been alive (never mind riding) so I just felt I had to help with a few suggestions here and there.

[fimonkey]

Thanks Packhorse, and others. .. Another lesson today and this time I was told my legs are too strong and therefore confusing the horse when I gave my aids (true).. so I was having to ride with my legs away from the saddle and sit the trot,.... can really feel my paraspinal msucles (the two big long ones which run up either side of your spine) in my lower back now so was clearly tensing them.

XmeganX, .. with the bell thing, does that mean you're sucking your belly button towards your spine in time with the trot?

Cheers all

[beakysian]

I have a slightly different problem with my lower back which hasn't been commented on yet (only 2 lessons in!) but affects most sports I come to. I have a very flexbiel lumbar spine which naturally arches a lot making my bottom stick out and gets worse when I sit down. So my worry is that I'll be tipping forward in the saddle = poor position and soreness!

Has anyone had a similar problem or any tips on how best to roll my pelvis back to flatten out my back and sit up straight? NB: the string-through-the-top-of-the-head thing makes me arch more strangely...

All advice welcome!

[fimonkey]

Beakysian, Whithout seeing you, but from your description it sounds like it's your stomach muscles that need to work a bit harder to pull your bum up and underneath you. It's something you can practice whilst sat at home, driving etc, really over-exaggerate tucking your bum under (whilst sitting down, this will be easier at first).

The position you describe is called a 'lordosis' and some nationalities naturally have a greater lumbar lordosis than others, i.e Afro-carribeans have a larger natural lordosis whereas people of chinese origin have almost no lumbar curve (calle a flat back).

However, if you suffer back pain, or any other problem, please get advice of a physio/chiropractoer/osteopath.

[go max!]

If you look at Mary Wanless "ride with your mind" website, she has exercises for sitting trot, using a 65cm physioball. If you can find one of her coaches, they will help you tremendously with the whole core muscle and correct position issue - I have been working with one for just over a year, and she has revolutionised the way I sit - this method works!!

[Snow_Pony]

Might also be worth seeing an osteo/chiro etc to make sure that your back is working so that it can relax in to the movement :) Have heard that using one of those exercise balls help too as you have to have a flexible but string back to be able to stay on one!

Agree, I am having treatment for my legs, lower back and neck, and the difference in my riding is amazing. I can sit correctly with no effort at all, can't believe how long I struggled for. I have quite severe problems, but have never been in a lot of pain, just uncomfortable sometimes, and didnt realise. So you never know.. and from my tiny knowledge on the subject it sounds like you might benefit from a visit :)

xxx

[fimonkey]

Hmmm I can sit on a flexi ball and balance no probs so not sure if that's the problem.. My instructor last week described it to me as a 'rocking forwards and backwards' of the pelvis in time to the trot, and pull my belly button back towards my spine as I rock forwards.

When I sit the trot I already have my bum tucked under me and belly button sucked in (this happens naturally as I put my legs back from my hips so my heels are in line with my hips, as opposed to the 'hunter' seat I previously had). Hence I have nowhere to 'rock' my pelvis (it can't go any further forward, and if I rock it backwards then I end up sitting with my bum 'stuck out' and it HURTS my seat bones.

Overall though, I can't rock fast enough!!! I can rock every other beat, in whch case my sitting trot becomes a low rising trot, but to rock to every beat??

[coverblown]

think that you have no legs so you have just got to balance on those seat bones. sitting tall really helps with this

[Bay Mare]

Have a look at the 'Kinder Way' section of this site (from the home page) and also this site which has an excellent ebook for beginners:

http://horseridingforbeginners.com/


To absorb the movement in sitting trot you need to be able to use your seat bones independantly.

The horse's back moves in 2 halves with one side dipping and then the other so we should be using our seatbones in synchrony with the horse's movement. If we use the seatbones together you will lose the feel and your horse may slow down or even stop. You can't help but push with your seat if you do this which is when you get your hands moving, your legs flapping and your head nodding! Try and stop this happening and you become stiff and tense ... and bounce!

Try it first at walk. Don't try and force the movement, just FEEL what the horse is doing and let the horse move your seatbones. You should be able to feel the hind leg coming under (when the back on that side dips and the belly swings away). Once you can feel this in walk try it in trot. If it's difficult at first just do a few strides and then come back to walk or go rising.

Once you've got the hang of this then you can feel which diagonal you're on without having to look down! When you feel your outside seatbone dip you should be sitting, when the horse pushes your outside seatbone up and forwards this is the rise phase.

If you can have a lesson on an Equisimulator with an Enlightened Equitation teacher (or a normal lesson with an EE teacher) they will be able to teach you this in the first session. Of course you will need to work on it but it really is easier than it sounds.

[Lucyad]

Try doing a RISING trot with no stirrups, without gripping with your knees, just using the rythm of the trot to lift your pelvis. Actually TRYING to rise seems to help me sitting (perversely....).

[vikkig]

i was always told i am stiff through my lower back, so went to a chiro as i did have a bad back and he fixed it, the next lesson i had my RI asked what had happened "i said chiro" he said that explains it then and that was it