Stronger bit?

[wondergirl]

If I wanted to ride my horse in a stronger bit, what would you recommend?

She is currently ridden in a happy mouth 3 ring dutch gag (on the 2nd ring), flash noseband to stop her opening her mouth and a martingale. She can get quite strong, especially if ridden out with other horses and although I can usually hold on to her, there are times when I think to myself 'if she wanted to be off, she could just go'. Someone at my yard suggested trying a stronger bit, but I wasn't sure where to go from here... perhaps a stainless steel dutch gag as opposed to the rubber one?!

What do you think?

[HorseManiac]

Eeeeek.

Um. I always thought stronger bits put on soo much pressure the horses try and run away from it.

It would proberly make her mouth harder.

Put her in a snaffle or a french link, and do lots of schooling on it.
Have you had her teeth/back/saddle checked?
:)

[PinkGlamourGurl]

A stronger bit is hardly going to be the answer. Looking at current "gadgets" I would ask, why is she opening her mouth? Why is she throwing her head up?

In my experience putting something stronger in their mouth either makes them back away from the contact and start rearing, or fight against it and tank off.

[Joyscarer]

So when is it right to change a bit?

Given the above responses we would all be riing around in the same bits :confused:

[mikh]

Get rid of the gag I did and it's worked wonders for my mare. Why not try a hanging cheek or wilkie in a french link or dr bristol. Robinsons has dr bristols on sale for £9 at the mo. To be honest I don't think it matters what's in a horses mouth if they want to go they will regardless - if you up the bit you may find that evading (tucking head in and neither here nor there when it comes to the bit) starts to happen and this can be worse than a tanking off.

I have a very strong horse and have now got the attitude that I need to be strong in myself and be assertive, she's in a handing cheek or dr bristol when in big groups for hacking and french link snaffle with no flash or martingale for schooling.

If you really want to up the bit try a happy mouth pelham without the curb chain and in roundings or a kimblewick but I'd try the above first. Good luck.

[chev]

I suppose the thing here is that the horse is already in a fairly strong bit; eventually you run out of stronger bits to try.

If she's opening her mouth that smacks of being unhappy about something. What kind of mouth does she have? Have a look to see if she has a lot of room, or a big fleshy tongue. It may be that a different mouthpiece would suit her better. What kind of mouthpiece is she in now? It might be worth experimenting with different types of mouthpiece rather than changing the bit altogether.

Some horses like a certain mouthpiece better than others; french links, single joints and mullen mouths suit different mouths.

[wondergirl]

So when is it right to change a bit?

Given the above responses we would all be riing around in the same bits :confused:

Thanks Joyscarer :)

Before you all lynch me, I wasnt suggesting that I actually changed her bit - I was merely seeking advice going on what someone at my yard said. Jeez everytime I post on here I always seem to open a can of worms!!! :D

And yes, teeth back and tack have been checked.

[wondergirl]

I suppose the thing here is that the horse is already in a fairly strong bit; eventually you run out of stronger bits to try.

If she's opening her mouth that smacks of being unhappy about something. What kind of mouth does she have? Have a look to see if she has a lot of room, or a big fleshy tongue. It may be that a different mouthpiece would suit her better. What kind of mouthpiece is she in now? It might be worth experimenting with different types of mouthpiece rather than changing the bit altogether.

Some horses like a certain mouthpiece better than others; french links, single joints and mullen mouths suit different mouths.

She's in a rubber straight bar 3 ring gag. In my orignal post I actually suggested keepng the same bit (Im aware of it's severeity), but changing the mouthpiece, possibly to a stainless steel or maybe a jointed one. What difference do different joints make?

[chev]

And yes, teeth back and tack have been checked.

Could well be she'd like a different mouthpiece then.

There's no harm at all in changing bits; some horses actually like changing bits on a fairly regular basis. And how else are you going to find what suits your horse best unless you try something new?

Oops - cross posted! Some horses don't like rubber (it can be very dry in the mouth) and go better with metal bits of some sort.

The different mouthpieces suit different conformation - for native types with big tongues thinner bits are actually kinder (less bulk and therefore less pressure) and lots like French Link types best (they fit the moth better than single joints).

Some like mullen mouths - pressure is fairly evenly distributed. Some like low ports (big ports put pressure on the sensitive roof of the mouth; low ports less so and relieve some pressure on the tongue), some like single joints.

[jaydevon]

firstly, if a horse wants to go its going to go, none of us have a chance of stopping half a ton of horse,

rather than trying stronger bits id try different bits, maybe even no bit.

i personally hate sticking flashes ect, and ive seen so many horses actually stop fighting once its removed, saying that if i dont use one on my mare she sticks her tounge over... and yes ive tried several different bits with her.

[mikh]

So when is it right to change a bit?

Given the above responses we would all be riing around in the same bits :confused:

Thankfully there are a large number of bits out there, my mare would have a fit if ridden in a jointed bit as opposed to a french link, I think the advice of going back to basics in good, a mouth can easily be spoilt by upping the bit too soon. But yes this horse may need a stronger bit than most, and shouldn't be ruled out completely :)

[wondergirl]

I dont normally have a problem with her when Im hacking / schooling wearing what she is wearing. It's just when we meet other horses riding in the same direction as us that she gets a bit 'competitive' shall we say. She tends to jog or canter on the spot and fights to be at the front. On her own she's an angel.

[chev]

You could try riding with two reins; use the bottom rein when she gets strong, just to remind her who's in charge.

[wondergirl]

Could well be she'd like a different mouthpiece then.

The different mouthpieces suit different conformation - for native types with big tongues thinner bits are actually kinder (less bulk and therefore less pressure) and lots like French Link types best (they fit the moth better than single joints).

She's fairly chunky - but not a full blown cob. She's no TB either. Im unsure of her breeding - possibly Irish Cob. He passport is pretty useless!

From contacting her previous owners, she seems to have always been ridden in a 3 ring gag - from 2002 anyway.

[mikh]

I dont normally have a problem with her when Im hacking / schooling wearing what she is wearing. It's just when we meet other horses riding in the same direction as us that she gets a bit 'competitive' shall we say. She tends to jog or canter on the spot and fights to be at the front. On her own she's an angel.

If that's all she does I'd say it were a schooling issue and she needs to listen to you more, not necessarily the bit, I wouldn't up the bit for that. Most horses do get a bit competitive, I'd just try and be assertive with her. I know that the jogging and cantering on the spot thing can make me a tad nervous when my mare does it but I just try and sit deep and relax and ride her into the contact.

[wondergirl]

You could try riding with two reins; use the bottom rein when she gets strong, just to remind her who's in charge.

How do you mean? Like a double bridle? Or with pelham roundings?

[chev]

Yes, like a double bridle :) You put one on the bottom ring of the gag, and one on the top (or second, maybe). Pick up the bottom rein while she's strong, drop it when she comes back to you. It gives you that bit more when you need it, but doesn't interfere when you don't.

[wondergirl]

If that's all she does I'd say it were a schooling issue and she needs to listen to you more, not necessarily the bit, I wouldn't up the bit for that. Most horses do get a bit competitive, I'd just try and be assertive with her. I know that the jogging and cantering on the spot thing can make me a tad nervous when my mare does it but I just try and sit deep and relax and ride her into the contact.

She wasn't too bad when I first got her (October), and she would happily ride out with others. She came from a trecking centre after all. Ive been hacking her out on her own (partly due to the fact the people on my yard arent always around at the same time as me), and she has been stabled 24/7 during the winter (yard ppolicy not my own choice). Do you think that could be partly responsible for the way she reacts when with others? Im hoping that maybe when we get turn out again she will change her atttude and get used to being around other horses again?.

[wondergirl]

Yes, like a double bridle :) You put one on the bottom ring of the gag, and one on the top (or second, maybe). Pick up the bottom rein while she's strong, drop it when she comes back to you. It gives you that bit more when you need it, but doesn't interfere when you don't.

Hmmm thanks. Might give that a try. Do I need a double bridle or just another set of reins? *doh* :confused:

[chev]

Just another set of reins. :)

[mikh]

I would put it down to freshness and lack of turnout, by the time the summer comes I'd imagine she might get out of this habbit due to more turnout and the fact it's the summer.

[gordysgirl]

I would agree with Chev about having a second rein available when you need it, therefore you can stay as normal until she gets a bit strong.
The problem with some horses is that no matter how much schooling you do with them it is 'their personality' which means they react in certain ways. So she may just find these situation exciting full stop.

[wondergirl]

I would put it down to freshness and lack of turnout, by the time the summer comes I'd imagine she might get out of this habbit due to more turnout and the fact it's the summer.

The thing is, she can be in 'donkey mode' until she meets other horses heading in the same direction as us.. Mind you, it doesnt always help when they canter up behind you! lol

Still, might try the double rein thing :)

[mikh]

Go with the double rein and let us know how it goes! :D

[xXSundanceBayXx]

try riding with two reins like suggested, this is how gags are meant to be used anyway. if that fails try a hanging cheek snaffle or a jointed dutch gag. The rein could also be being blocked by the martingale if you get what i mean (if its a running one)??

[wondergirl]

sundanceBay - What's the difference between a straight bar gag and the jointed one?

[PinkGlamourGurl]

Jointed one has a "nutcracker" action on the tongue.

Fleur hates it :p thats how I know.

I would def agree with 2 reins, gags are meant to be used with one rein on the top and another set of reins on a lower ring.

[star*]

try riding with two reins like suggested, this is how gags are meant to be used anyway.

But a dutch gag isn't a gag. I don't really like them. Why not a pelham with the same mouthpiece you have already, as then you still can drop the pelham rein when needs be.

[xXSundanceBayXx]

But a dutch gag isn't a gag. I don't really like them. Why not a pelham with the same mouthpiece you have already, as then you still can drop the pelham rein when needs be.


a dutch gag IS a gag. and should be used with two reins. :D

[Daisy Lady]

Only a thought - and I am no expert, but have you thought of going down the bitless bridle route?? I had the same sort of problems as you have (read - help needed with strong horse - please!! thread). The bitless worked really well for me. Obviously this does depend on the individual horse - as most things do!! Hope you find something that works well for you soon.

[Blair Witch]

rather than trying stronger bits id try different bits, maybe even no bit.


I agree with this. By using a harsher bit, if your horse isn't mentally ready, you'll be giving yourself more problems. IMO, this is behavioral, and a different bit will do little good.