Sitting the Canter Question

[wanabe]

Why do many riders move their upper bodies forward and back in the canter? I've noticed even good riders do this. Is it considered a flaw or just an idosyncrasy of the rider?

Personally, I think it looks better not to do this and don't want to get into the habit. I'm thinking take a bit longer reins so that you can give with the hands and not the body when the horse moves its neck forward...

[cvb]

in theory your lower back is going to absorb the movement the horse creates in your hips, so your upper body stays "still".

In reality it is not actually still - but still in relation to the horse (if you see what I mean).

But if your lower back is not flexible enough to absorb the movement, then you are going to get upper body movement. Plus if you are slightly out of time with the horse, you will also give the impression of movement.

IMHO

[vimto92]

Why do many riders move their upper bodies forward and back in the canter? I've noticed even good riders do this. Is it considered a flaw or just an idosyncrasy of the rider?

Personally, I think it looks better not to do this and don't want to get into the habit. I'm thinking take a bit longer reins so that you can give with the hands and not the body when the horse moves its neck forward...

Its referred to as "rocking" and no its really not desired or want you want to acheive! :eek:

To be honest, you shouldn't have to rock with your hands either. The way my RI puts it is that the horse moves in a set frame and you shouldn't be rocking your body or hands at all. You should let the horse canter underneath you, you are just on top, obviousley you do need some give in your arms incase the head and neck move more than you expect.

[vimto92]

in theory your lower back is going to absorb the movement the horse creates in your hips, so your upper body stays "still".

In reality it is not actually still - but still in relation to the horse (if you see what I mean).


Spot on, what I wanted to say but couldn't put it in an understandable way :rolleyes:

[wanabe]

Most of the riders at my school are teenagers -- so I don't think it is due to an inflexible back. I had an idea that perhaps they were trying to urge their horses on, but that doesn't seem like the way to do it, to me.

[cvb]

yes, there is a school of thought that uses body weight to urge the horse on. But not in terms of forward or back, but a movement.

I think it often comes from people misinterpreting the need to flex the lower back. You descriptions like "shine the saddle " (shudder)

I don't think it helps.

[Bay Mare]

Why do many riders move their upper bodies forward and back in the canter? I've noticed even good riders do this. Is it considered a flaw or just an idosyncrasy of the rider?

Because they're pushing with their seat (the driving seat) and, yes, it is a flaw but doesn't seem to get corrected these days :( Driving (shovelling!) with the seat isn't going to produce more impulsion, it's going to make the horse hollow away from you ... the opposite of what you're wanting.

Making sure that the horse isn't on his forehand will help with sitting the canter and thinking of circling the hips backwards in a sort of oval shape will help to stop the seat shovelling and will help with absorption of the movement.

[wanabe]

Okay, I found a youtube video of someone rocking like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilw3l3IBTT8

[Blair Witch]

You're not moving your upper body. It is your hips ;)

[wanabe]

Blair Witch, I'm not sure I understand your comment. Was it about the video? That wasn't of me, if it was, and besides I'm talking about what I see some OTHER riders do. There's no telling what *I* look like cantering! :eek:

Posting that video link produced such a thundering silence that I'm not sure what to make of it. Maybe I should remove the link as it's not the best example of what I'm talking about.

[Blair Witch]

I was refering to people who rock when they canter. Your upper body automatically follows your hips. They are over exagerating the movement.

[wanabe]

So basically the answer to not doing this is just to not drive with your seat?

[Joyscarer]

I personally find it helpful to imagine my hat has a piece of elastic holding me upright so I don't slouch.

That can only go so far though as I dion't have a great deal of core strength to support myself. :o

[xloopylozzax]

yes dont physically drive with your seat, but still use your seat to encourage the movement- im sorry i dont know how to explain this but once you do it you will know what i mean i think :confused:

also sit tall like joyscarer advises
;)

[wanabe]

I'm beginning to think that the driving they're doing is a pushing forward with the whole body from the hips up -- but since the hips can't move as they're in contact with the saddle, the upper body alone moves forward causing the rocking motion.

[cvb]

wannabe- "Hank" is a big horse who would seem to be not very naturally forwarded going. The rider is quite small in comparison. I think she is succumbing to the temptation to try and "create" the movement by moving herself.

This often acts in fact to "block" the horse's movement.

What we as riders need to aim to do is "allow" the movement (and energy) will controlling it.

ETA: had to go feed horses ;)

I meant to say that if you look at that youtube clip you can see the lower back is not absorbing all the movement the horse has - I suspect this is because the back has some tension in it from trying to create the forwardness ?

[wanabe]

Thanks cvb. I wish I had some video of the people at my RS, that I'm talking about. They're better examples.

[wanabe]

in theory your lower back is going to absorb the movement the horse creates in your hips, so your upper body stays "still".

In reality it is not actually still - but still in relation to the horse (if you see what I mean).

But if your lower back is not flexible enough to absorb the movement, then you are going to get upper body movement. Plus if you are slightly out of time with the horse, you will also give the impression of movement.

IMHO

Just returning to this subject, I want to say that I think cvb was bang-on here. I think the guy who does this the worst at school is about 45 and probably does have a stiff lower back. He's just not able to follow the horse by flexing down there.

But I think Baymare is also onto another reason. (Because they're pushing with their seats.)

I'm wondering tho, if being inflexible might not lead someone to attempt to follow the action of the saddle by "polishing" it, which might look like an attempt at driving or pushing.

[ameliajane]

I do this!
I have been told so many times to stop trying to drive the horse forward - but believe me, being a nervous wreck, driving the horse forward is the very last thing i would want to do :eek:
I think some of us are just a bit tense and are not following and absorbing the movement of the horse correctly.
It may not always be a deliberate action, even if it looks that way :o

[fluffy_betty]

I'd like to say I'd agree with all the posts above, but I'd also like to add some warmblood types seem to have a very big ''rocking horse'' canter which in my experience can cause 'rocking' as described - a bit like when you get on a big moving horse and suddenly find you can't do sitting trot!!

[Walrus]

This is a really interesting thread, especially since I had a lesson focussing solely on the canter seat last Saturday. I've been riding for about 16 years but never really had very technical tuition, the place I'm at now is very good on that. The way that my instructor explained it on Saturday was that in canter the horse "rocks", this can cause novice riders to bounce in the saddle so they are taught to sit really deep and drive - this suctions their backside to the saddle and gives them a "deep seat" as it were so they don't bounce. In actual fact what you want is to sit on the horse not "into" it if that makes sense with the horse moving beneath you in the rocking motion whilst you sit effectively still (a bit like an upside down pivot point).

We worked on walk to canter transitions and actually using the leg as I have a terrible habbit of trying to ride from my seat and not use my legs effectivley. The best piece of advice my instructor gave me in that lesson was to sit up and push your tail bone underneath you, this stops you suctioning on to the horse with your thighs (and therfore clamping on your thighs and knees), she also said to imagine you are trying to lift the horse by its whithers i.s. lift the hands but also sit on the tail bone and open the chest - this frees up the shoulders and allows the horse to come through from behind and suddenly gives you a feeling off "uphill" carrige - which is what you are trying to achieve.

My lesson on Saturday was so interesting, I've known for a while that something was wrong in the canter. I now have to try and work on what I learned, damn only riding once a week!