Sick and tired of saddle fitters!

[cariadbach10]

Okay. I try to be a good horse owner. I would hate to feel that I do anything to put my Ernie in pain. But is it me or these days can horse owners not do right for doing wrong?

When I bought Ern I got a reputable fitter out to him. We tried lots of saddles,the fitting took about two hours and I rode him in the saddle for twenty minutes.Though I was hankering after a treeless barefoot cheyenne I took the advice of the fitter and chose a treed Charles Mountford,(£260)which she assured me fitted him, after informing me treeless saddles were the work of satan.:eek:
Fast forward six weeks.This afternoon a friend of one of the girls at the yard (who fits reactor panel saddles) visited. I got chatting to her and said that I'd always fancied a treeless.She too pronounced them the work of the devil,saying that lots of horses she'd visited had lots of damage caused by them. She offered to take a look at my current saddke to see if it fitted. I took her up on it...and she said it was too narrow for him and was causing muscle wastage. She offered to pop a reactorpanel on him to illustrate the difference, which I politely declined as I had ridden in one before. I KNOW HOW GOOD THEY ARE! REALLY I DO! I JUST DO NOT HAVE A SPARE £1000 IN MY BACK POCKET FOR ONE!

So now I feel awful. Because I don't have that kind of money I can't make my horse comfortable. Nothing against either of the fitters -they are both lovely people- but it seems that unless you are willing to fork out a months wages you are an cruel owner.

Has anyone else encountered these kind of frustrations?:confused:

[eventerstar]

Go back to the original saddle fitter straight away. They do say that up to 3 months the saddle is likely to need adjusting. I had a new one in November that fitted perfectly but did need adjusting at 3 months (which was free). My friend bought the same saddle and it fitted perfectly and 2 months later didn't fit at all! In both instances the saddle fitter came out and put them right free of charge. You should have the fitted every six months for the same reasons as tehy do change as your horse does, he may be on box rest and lose fitness etc or muscle up as you do more as it gets better weather.

What ever happens the original fitter should come back and put it right.

incidently I once had one fitted perfectly by one saddler told by another it didn't fit, had the original one out who did another full hour check to be told it fitted perfectly so as an owner I know what you mean 'how can we win??

good luck and get him or her back in the first instance.

[boe]

agree with eventerbabe get the saddle fitter back out again.

[Bay Mare]

after informing me treeless saddles were the work of satan.:eek:


A lot of them say that, often without having a clue about treeless saddles. They also don't always know (or if they know don't tell you) both sides of the story when there has been a problem. They do have a vested interest in you not buying a treeless though so I suppose that they're only trying to protect their business.


I agree with the others, go back to the original saddler. It sounds like she may have fitted TO any atrophy already there rather than to reverse the atrophy. There's no reason that a treed saddle, well fitted, should be any better or worse than a good treeless.

Good luck :)

[jaydevon]

morning !! you used ss didnt you?

[Fanshawe]

I had similar happen to me. Had saddle fitted by very reputable fitter and checked after 3 months then had back person out and they told me the saddle didn't fit! Never know who to believe to be honest.

[chickyd444]

the original fitter that fitted my saddle (fieldhouse pro-hawk event) that cost £800 upwards damaged my horses back, causing soreness, really bad atrofee, and a real hate for being tacked up, i think alot of saddle fitters take advantage of people nieveity and good nature, the people that originally sold me my saddle have sinse gone bust, i wanted to kill them when poohsmate showed me how much damaged had been caused - poohsmate now does my fitting and checking and i bought a cheap second hand saddle co saddle - my boy and me have never been happier :)

re the treeless saddle,i think they are brill for horses backs, almost as good as riding bareback, the only reason i didnt buy one is because i found it difficult/ painfull to ride in (rubbed me soar :o ) but then i did take it on a 3hour test drive :eek: , the people that tell you they are the work of satan are trying to peddle their own saddles and will say anything to make a sale ;)

[KT C]

the people that tell you they are the work of satan are trying to peddle their own saddles and will say anything to make a sale

I too am generally suspicious of people telling you that something doesn't fit in order to try and sell you something of theirs which definitely will fit and make all the difference :rolleyes:, however, I was told by a saddle fitter that doesn't actually sell saddles that he wasn't keen on treeless... should've really been paying more attention when he went into the reasons why though :o

[eventerbabe]

I'm very suspicious of saddle fitters. I used one master saddler who told me my saddle was fine then 2 weeks later my new RI (first lesson with her) points out it does not fit. Also found out said master saddler had been gossiping about my old horse who decided to jump a 5 bar gate during a saddle fitting. Haven't used her since.

I tend to go by word of mouth recomendations, and i always like to try a selection of saddles. I've done a lot of reading and am studying for a foundation fitting qualification myself so hopefully i can spot the rouges before they fit my horse with a rubbish saddle!

[chickyd444]

I tend to go by word of mouth recomendations, and i always like to try a selection of saddles. I've done a lot of reading and am studying for a foundation fitting qualification myself so hopefully i can spot the rouges before they fit my horse with a rubbish saddle!


thats a really good idea :)

[cariadbach10]

Thanks for all your ideas guys. I am going to give the original saddler a ring and still keep my eye out for a treeless. I think however 'bad' they may be they can' possibly be as bad a a poorly fitting treed saddle.

[western-saddler]

Hi,

Now I might be frowned upon here being a (predominently) western saddle fitter but....

I hear this time and time again about treed saddle fitters saying treeless are awful. In all fairness, some are bad and do cause problems. Some are great but used with inappropriate padding, or on a horse that has unresolved issues, etc, etc.

I sell treed and treeless. There is a place for both. It does make me so cross when I see the amount of damage treed saddles do on a REGULAR basis, then you get the fitters telling you (or at least I have been told) that atrophy is a healthy and normal development.

I sell two types of treeless saddle at the moment. I like to (where I can) see the horses of the saddle designers to see what their backs are like. Usually, people tend to use their own saddles on their own horses. I went down to Heather Moffett's yard to see her horses backs to see for myself what hers looked like after years of her saddles. They are ridden very regularly and to quite a high level. Do you know, her horses had the healthiest backs I have EVER seen! No wastage, no soreness and happy horses.

The treeless saddles, no matter what the make are not for all horses or riders but they certainly work for many.

Do not be put off by treed saddlefitters tarring all treeless with the same brush - it is a shame. But there are great treeless saddles out there, as there are treed.

BTW I love your horse's name! :D

[ami29]

Saddlefitting has to be the most contentious, controversial and subjective area of horse management that there is.
Even specialist equine vets are often in denial about saddle issues affecting performance and soundness.
We all have a responsibility to to educate ourselves as best we can about FACTS rather than just listening to to the opinions of others, then we would be able to discuss and question in a more informed way.
If I ask a so-called expert "How?" or "Why?" and they can't give me an answer that is logical and gives me confidence in them, then I wouldn't bother asking them another question, let alone using their services.

I read "Why Go Treeless?" on totalsaddlesolutions.com and was very impressed with the amount of research that has been done.
There is a beautiful photo of a horse's back on the front page, which I was told is a homebred eventer which has only ever been ridden in a treeless saddle.

[Bebe]

sell treed and treeless. There is a place for both. It does make me so cross when I see the amount of damage treed saddles do on a REGULAR basis, then you get the fitters telling you (or at least I have been told) that atrophy is a healthy and normal development.

I agree.

There's a time and place for both, and both types DO need to be fitted taking the horses shape into account. You can't plonk a treeless on every horse and it be ok, particularly if there's existing muscle wastage or some kind of conformational issue.

That said, my mare has been ridden almost exclusively in various treeless saddles for getting on for 7yrs with no problems whatsoever. I did think that one saddle was causing a problem last year as she had serious back pain, but that turned out to be caused by arthritis in her hocks affecting her way of going. At this point I did buy a treed saddle, which I liked very much and didn't cause any problems, but since the arthritis diagnosis my mare has been out of work and when push came to shove I decided I didn't want the aggravation of having the treed saddle refitted every couple of months (she's now in and out of light work depending on how she's looking & feeling at any given time so it's not really consistent and she changes shape as a result). She's now back in her original treeless saddle and happy as a clam. I am using additional padding with it in the form of a rear riser prolite pad as her she has no topline at present and her back has dropped a little as a result. Prior to this though I only used a half sheepskin seamless numnah under all the treeless saddles I've had.

[Bouncer]

I found it very hard to get a saddle to fit my pony, we even tried getting one that was made to measure and that was no good either.

I tried one of my friends treeless saddles and I have never looked back, its amazing fit and so comfortable, was the best spent £550.00 ever

Bouncer xx

[baileyboy]

Had problems with my own horses which is why I looked into being a fitter myself. Trust your own judgement if you feel something is not quite right then say. I trusted my horses physio more than my fitter but now she trusts me too:)

[mogadoga]

The reason we have a tree is the same as why we lift the numnah off the spine, its covered in tiny nerve endimgs in that area. Now this hasnt been published, but a test was done and a treeless and wow came out with the most pressure points on a horse. Now il not say about the wow i dont know about that. But with the treeless it was because it was sitting on these nerve endings and would eventually cause damage. This is why saddle fitters call them the work of satan.

NOW that doesnt mean to say it does work for some horses so dont beat me with a stick please, i am just saying something that has been proven.

As for it being too narrow, 6 weeks is actually enough time for your horse to change shape if it really did fit back then then maybe it doesnt because of shape changing, this is believing that it did fit. I had the fitter out within two months to re-adjust.

[Nik-n-Kia]

I have had people fit saddles for me and I have been told they fit when even I can see that they dont. I once had a 'master saddler' tell me that my shire cross mare (who was pretty much a 16hh shire) was a medium wide fit, she had a back that would sit 4 people for a 3 course dinner:eek::rolleyes:

I was a bit dubious about my thorowgood recently but that has been rectified (it needed re flocking) and I have been assured that it fits fine by Norm.

I would love to buy a new saddle for Kia as he has had the same one for three years but I am saving for many things at the moment, one of them being another horse, and I dont have a spare 500 quid for a new saddle.

There is nothing wrong with my saddle and it is in great nick and it fits which is the main thing. Get the fitter out again or another one and see if there is any salvaging the situation :)

Nikki xxx

[western-saddler]

The reason we have a tree is the same as why we lift the numnah off the spine, its covered in tiny nerve endimgs in that area. Now this hasnt been published, but a test was done and a treeless and wow came out with the most pressure points on a horse. Now il not say about the wow i dont know about that. But with the treeless it was because it was sitting on these nerve endings and would eventually cause damage. This is why saddle fitters call them the work of satan.


This is interesting because I have also seen that the WoW saddles proved better than a conventional tree in all variety of situations. :)

So I guess it comes down to:
a) Was the WoW saddle fitted correctly?
b) Which treeless was used and was it fitted correctly? Some treeless are better than others - as are treed. :)
c) Was it the same horse/rider combo?
d) If this was done by the SMS I presume the horse had atrophy. If so then the spine may well have been prominent. If it was, the type of pressure applied by a flat treeless saddle onto a raised spine would be too much. I have not problem with a gentle pressure exerted on the spine and have seen no adverse reactions and side-effects to that. The problem occurs when you get pressure points from an off-centre treed saddle or a badly made o fitted treeless.
e) What was the rider skill?

I think you can do all the 'research' under the sun but ultimately none of us are horses and only they know what is nice or not. I have seen many horses go so much better, over a long period of time in a treeless. I have also seen horses go much better in a well fitting treed too. :)

[cariadbach10]

Well I have made a decision. I am going to have the second lady (reactor panel lady) out to have another look. She took the saddle of one of my yard-mates horses and had a widened slightly so maybe she could do that for mine- or part exchange it for another that does fit-that will have to be within my budget!

[cariadbach10]

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg25/cariadbach10/readytogoout.jpg

This is him with his saddle on about two weeks ago. Any thoughts, anyone?

[jaydevon]

im no expert on saddles but it just looks wrong if you know what i meen, it dos'nt appeare to sit well at the back???

giive up hun and ride bareback :D

[HorseManiac]

Yes i agree, looks just ' not right '

And he looks like he isnt very happy.
You have a martingale? Is that because he puts his head up or rushes?Maybe thats a sign it doesnt fit.

Ask Poohsmate would your best way to go;)

[cariadbach10]

He wears a martingale because he does silly 'head twirlies' when he's excited about something- this could result in a bash to my nose! It's an a arab thing rather than a saddle fitting thing I think- he does head twirlies when he is excited and has not tack on!

[ami29]

The testing sounds interesting - do you have any more details?
Why hasn't it been published?

[baileyboy]

How does it sit on the shoulder as looks to be over? Would be easier to tell on fit if just the saddle and no extras on and one of just your horse.