Sadly outgrown

[Fraggle]

Thiis is my "pet hate" so I thought I'd get it off my chest as it's about ponies.

Every time I get a horse magazine I automatically look at the for sale ads. I'm not necessarily looking to buy but I can't resist!

In every magazine, there are always loads of ponies 14hh to 14.3hh which are for sale because they are "sadly outgrown".
This really makes my blood boil!!!!! How can a pony that size be outgrown? What they mean is that their little darling is sick of riding ponies and wants the status symbol of a big thoroughbred they can pose around on.

Ok, I know that you can only compete at a certain level on a pony but why can't people be honest about the reason they are selling.
I always feel really sorry for ponies who get passed around all over the place. I'd never sell Sam, if I wanted another one I'd keep him too, a pony/horse should be taken on for life.

Well, at least I've had a moan about it.

:) :p

[Gemma R]

We have done this thread before and it stirred up quite a lot of ill feeling if I remember rightly between horsey and pony people. Most ammusing. I COMPLETELY agree with you Fraggle it is my pet hate to but things are never going to change. My mare Libby is 14hh and she was passed pillar to post as a youngster because she was a juniors jumping pony and the riders 'outgrew' her!! Well she is with me now for life so at least that is good :)

Some people CAN'T physically ride ponies becausr they are to impracticle!! My friend is 5'8" with very long legs and just looks stupid on anything smaller than about 15hh or over although she would LOVE to have a pony she can't.

People should be honest - but when was the last time you went horse hunting??? Did ANY of the horses/ponies look like the ad!!!!

[Fraggle]

I'm 5 feet 9 inches tall with very long legs. It all depends on the type of pony you ride. Dales ponies have very deep girths and you can wrap your legs around them, highlands are the same.

The Dales pony trekking centre in Malham only use Dales ponies and a man went out trekking with me riding a 13.2hh pony. It didn't have any trouble carrying him and he had a wonderful time.

I admit I'd look silly on a 12hh pony but they do come in all shapes and sizes, it quite often appears to be down to snobbery and whether you are bothered by the comments of other people. I'd expect a very small pony to be outgrown and then kept as a pet but lets fact it, unless you grow to about 7 feet tall you can't outgrow a 14.3hh pony can you?

:D

[Gemma R]

Hmm I have been reading this thread and the other one about intro'ing your self and there seems to be lots of tall people riding large ponies - I shall pass the good news on to Em ;) She was thinking about getting a highland so will let her know there are lots of tall people out there on them :) Photographic evidence would be fab :)

[ponynut]

Being 5'3 this poutgrowing thing should not apply!
I hate people who think the bigger the horse the better! BUL****T! Yann here looks great on Peps! He is a tall bloke too!
I look good on her! She is the best size in the world! Suits everyone!!!!!But the ability to ride is paramount- she takes the proverbial!
I have a yearling destined for 16+ but she does not really appeal like a 14'2 - not a much base cunning!
Ponies have character! They need a rider with a sense of humour!!!!!!!!!

[Sue&Tasha Green]

Hi, I know that after I write this I am probably going to get alot of people shouting at me.
Well, I am 16, 5'6 and I hate riding ponies!
I used to have a 14hh pony who was nothing but trouble, I 'upgraded' to a 16hh throughbred a year and a half ago.
Now I am at college doing an equine course and I have ridden a welsh C pony, a throughbred pony and a throughbred horse.
I liked the throughbred horse the most, it was just much better for me and my way of riding.
For me ponies are for having fun, for serious lessons and competing horses are much better.
Tasha

[Mehitabel]

petal's dad would be highly offended to hear you say that! he's done affiliated dressage and won, and the dressage trainer i've been to said that petal had paces like a warmblood and i should affiliate her as well.
personal tastes are fair enough, but don't tell me that you can't compete seriously on a pony. (and this forum is a bit of a silly place to say it!)

[Fraggle]

"Ponies are for having fun!"

I don't think anyone on this site will disagree with you, isn't that what riding is all about?

I waited until I was 36 to buy my first pony , trust me, I'm having the time of my life.

Too many people take it all just a tad too seriously and you need a sense of humour to ride a pony as they all seem to have very big charactors. (Don't they call it the Napoleon syndrome)

:D

PS. Es - I like your style!

[ponynut]

It is a silly place to *** ponies!!!!!!!!
I can not think of a pony that can not do what a horse does!

[Gemma R]

Do you know I was trawling through the for sale ad's today and actaully saw a 15.1hh horse advertised as sadly outgrown!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! . . . you get the idea ;)


Doesn't just happen to our beloved ponies!!

[Lgd]

Ponies do get outgrown. I am delivering my sadly outgrown fairly dainty 13.2hh pony to her new home tonight. At 5'7" and 11½stone I am really too big and heavy, even my niece knocks her off balance in canter now because she is so big on her. She is going to a lovely home to teach an 11year old girl and her new to riding 5'2" Mum all about riding and how much fun a good pony is. I advertised her as a schoolmistress and she every inch of that having taught four people to ride since I have had her and given my friend's daughter her confidence back when her pony had bucked off once too often. It will be a big hole in my life but we can visit her whenever we like and I will be happier (and so will she) that her talents for bringing on a rider will not go to waste and that she now has a permanent home for the rest of her natural life.

[horsemad]

Well personally I would be very happy to own a pony. My own horse is 16hh, but I sort of 'acquired' her by accident, rather than by design! Although I love her to bits, I think if I was to go out looking for a horse, I'd probably have gone for something smaller.

But then again, all I want is a pet that I can 'potter about' with, I'm not interested in competing (apart from doing the odd Riding Club novice competitions). I suppose it is possible to say you have 'outgrown' a pony if you want to compete in jumping/working hunter competitions - because of the age restriction.

[cvb]

OK, maybe we can ask for honest adverts. Can you imagine it ?

"Sadly for sale as daughter is a fat lump!":D By the way I speak as a fat lump myself.....so please lets not get into the whole weight thing (its been done on previous threads).

I have to be careful riding my veteran 14:2 when I home because I am really a bit heavy for him. So we take it easy. But its a weight thing (for me - and age for him) as if I could I would ride him forever....

I do like riding horses, its a whole different feel. But I find it so much more work. So I have myself a little cowhorse, roughly 15hh Appy and we get along fine. And my 6ft+ partner looks fine on her too. She is young enough and fit enough to take my fatness and a western saddle without a problem.

Personally I have found ponies to be more of a partner, whereas horses expect you to do more of the thinking.

[chev]

I wonder sometimes what people would think if I (30 year old mother) went after one of these "sadly outgrown by 14 year old daughter" ponies - some of them sound brilliant!

I have ridden horses, quite a few in fact, but never felt like it was as much of a partnership as I've had with the ponies I've ridden. Felt more like I was just sat there for the ride somehow. Being a bit of a weed (5' 4 and about 7 and a half stone) it always felt like the bigger horses weren't that aware of me! I love the agility, the natural sure-footedness and the intelligence that ponies have.

That said, I have a really good friend who loves big horses. She's only just 5' and yet can't seem to get on so well with ponies.

I used to work at a trekking centre, riding ponies from about 11hh up to an IDx of 16.2hh. No-one much liked taking rides out on the biggies - it's so much easier opening gates from a titch! We also found the ponies were far better for novices of all sizes, they took better care of them than the horses did.

I did once meet a girl who had "outgrown" her 14hh. The problem was not so much that she had physically outgrown him, but that she wanted to pursue what was already a successful career jumping and he simply couldn't clear the kind of height she needed him to. They advertised him and she took a 16.2hh on loan in the meantime, but after a few weeks the horse went back and they kept the pony. She reckoned she'd never find a horse with the same courage and character. She still has him now.

[Emma_G_NZ]

Well I love ponies, I've got a 14.1hh boy, and I'm 14 years old. Unfortunately, over here in NZ, I will not be allowed to compete on ponies once I turn 17 :( It sucks so much, so when I turn 17 I am seriously considering starting an Adult Pony Riders Club, or even disputing this rule- if it has not already been by that time.

[cvb]

in the UK you can do something weird like re-register your pony with BSJA as a horse and move into seniors. As long as you do not compete in both at the same time, it seems be allowed.

Of course you are riding against much bigger horses. But if you have a very talented 14.2, you can still win - I know someone who did just this !

[Gemma R]

My 5'8" friend and I are off to look at a 14.1hh highland tomorrow for her - wish us luck!!

[Tumbleweed]

How many of us oldies remember Stroller, a 14.2hh pony that won everything in the pony classes and then went on to compete in the Olympic games, done quite well.

Jane Holderness Roddem had a 15hh eventing in the Olymipics, so 2 competing in adult classes at the very top, you can't get any higher than the Olympics.

Ponies are outgrown because the riders want to become famous and compete at the Olympics, their parents plow the money into them and then only a handful eventually make it. This is not only the right horse the reason they don't make the top, the riders discover the opposite sex, and they are no longer interested. You also see adverts that say, "Owner lost interest".

[Lightfoot]

I too get a twinge of sadness by the number of these adverts where the young owner / parents is selling on a pony to move up to a horse. However I did see one tucked in amongst them in a local horse magazine that made me smile.

It stated that Horse Had "Sadly Outgrown" Rider. A 5ft 1 lady had purchased a young horse expecting it to mature to 15.2hh at the most. At the time of advertising the horse had reached 16.3hh and was still growing. The advert claimed the horse was well mannered, good potential as a bold jumper, but the owner had just wanted to do hacking out and eventing at small local shows, and reluctantly had to admit this horse was getting way too big for her.

CHEV,

Just noticed a play on words in your message. Was it intentional ?

"a really good friend who loves big horses. She's only just 5' and yet can't seem to get on so well with ponies."

If she can't GET ON ponies very well, how does she manage to GET ON those big horses ?

[Lgd]

He He :D Must admit I laugh when Stroller is described as 14.2hh, he had a life height certificate for 14.2hh but was actually at least 15hh if not a fraction bigger. Takes nothing away from him competing against the bigger horses over the huge courses he had to jump. There is a big shake-up at the moment about life-height certificates because so many ponies are bigger than their registered height. A lot of people are protesting about it, tends to be those with large 'ponies' doing the protesting. There are an awful lot of 'big' 14.2hh 'ponies' around the BSJA and show pony circuits.

[Tumbleweed]

Someone wanted to bye my pony who is 14 hh to show him in 13.2 hh classes. Said that he would be 13.2hh when the measuring was done. Of course I kept him, there was no way that they were going to do that to him.

I did know about Stroller's height, and also Jane Holderness Roddems, I can't remember his name was under 15hh but had to be 15hh to compete in 3 day events, again they managed to get his hight up by various methods, but at least going up a height doesn't put the horse through what going down a height does.

[cvb]

was also 15hh or 15.2 ish. Small anyway, to carry a 6ft rider around a 3DE ! What a star.

[LindaAd]

Well of course ponies get outgrown - not all ponies are 14.2 and chunky, and not all children who are too big are "fat lumps", nor or all parents who buy horses for their children rich and indulgent. Just occasionally the degree of prejudice on this board is horrifying. Maybe it's jealousy on the part of people who couldn't have a horse when they were children.

My daughter outgrew here 13.2 pony when she was 14 because she wanted to move on to doing more grwon-up things that the pony couldn't or wouldn't manage. We loaned the pony to a small grown-up who only wanted to hack and do tiny jumps - that was brilliant until she moved away from the area. We've still got the pony - she's too old to sell - so if any of you pony-riding grownups would like to ride a delightful, sharp, whizzy 13.2 chestnut mare, let me know. Only two restrictions: you'd need to be fairly small, and she must stay here with me.

By the way, I went to look at one of these outgrown ponies when I was buying a horse: advertised as 14.2 and up to weight. When I went to look, he was neither - and I'm 5'4" and heavyweight. So I said I wouldn't bother to try him, but the owner persuade me to have a go anyway, and the pony bucked me off in the first 5 minutes.... Sometimes ponies know better than their owners.

[Tumbleweed]

Just occasionally the degree of prejudice on this board is horrifying. Maybe it's jealousy on the part of people who couldn't have a horse when they were children.

Or maybe it is just that we are misunderstanding what is meant. The Internet is very impersonnal, we cannot see each other to read the body language and things sometimes come over very different to what was intended. If you read them messages in a different manner, then maybe you will see what the writter intended. I got the impression that everyone was talking about those ponies that are given up for ambition or because someone has a better horse than them, and not because they can't do the job. Like adults children come in all shapes and sizes, and some children will look stupid on small or big equines.

This discussion is about ponies being outgrown, and because of that it is not prejudice to talk about it, it would be prejudiced if we were on a different thread. Apart from one person, nobody has made a personal attack, and that personal attack was unjustified, especially as a lot of people who come here never had the chance to have either a horse or pony as a child.

Let us all take a deep breath, and remember that we can't see each other, body language is important when we are comunication, and if anyone objects to a message, just ask what was meant and lets do away with personal attacks.

[Mehitabel]

we have an ex-ja pony on livery with us who has a life height of 14.2, and if she is, then petal must be about 12hh! she dwarfs toby, and he was measured for his life height at 147.5cm.

[chev]

Lightfoot, no I hadn't noticed! Actually she's one of these loathsome people who can vault on anything while I, at 4 inches taller, couldn't vault on if my life depended on it!

[cvb]

hmm - just thinking so who made the personal attack and reading back, and I can't spot anything that is particularly personal. Except for my own post about honest ads and fat lumps - which was signposted with lots of smilies to try and point out it was not serious !

So am I paranoid, or am I the culprit :eek: I hope not as the post was meant to try and lighten things up a little, so feelings did not run too high. Would be a real shame and somewhat an 'own goal' if it had the reverse effect :(

If you read the post you will see I myself have a happily not outgrown 14.2. Personally I always found I could do what I wanted on a pony. Sure I could do it on a horse too, but having a pony did not 'exclude' me.

But I can see that for some people it would stop them doing things, so they need to change.

Way I figure it, that gives all us pony riders more good ponies to work with :)

So SHUSH - don't tell everyone ! They'll all want to join in our fun :D

[Gemma R]

I couldn't have a horse OR pony when I was a kid!! :( I know my parents where tyrants and used to keep me locked up in a tower as well ROFL ;)

We're not denying ponies get out grown - what gets my goat is the ponies advertised as outgrown when really the rider wants to move up to horses!!! there't nothing wrong with that if they want to compete at different levels etc but jsut for the sake of it as a prestige thing is ridiculous. Giving a kid a 16hh horse is usually asking for trouble!!! I should know withhte amount of people I have known in the past as kids who got flashier horses and put there ponies out on loan who next season turns back up on old faithful all of a sudden not out grown pony becauesw said horse sent the whole of last seaason bolting over jumps with them!!!

[ponynut]

Me too!
I thought this thread was commenting on the fact 'outgrown' was an unfair description for a pony the is being sold for a the aquistion of a horse.
Rather than saying moving to adult classes!

I also see that most of us have ridden both- but simply prefer ponies! I have ridden all shapes & sizes of horse! From an early age!!!!!

[Fraggle (C)]

If you read my original post - my pet hate is ponies around the 14hh to 14.3hh height barrier who get sold as sadly outgrown when it would in fact be very difficult to outgrow most ponies of this size.

I can understand that small ponies may get outgrown as children grow but bigger ponies seem simply to get sold so that something bigger or different can be purchased. I think that ponies should be treated the same as a family dog and kept for life.

The whole pont of a forum is for everyone to offer their opinions and as this is a pony forum I make no apology for the fact that I'm a pony fan.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me, it would be a very boring world if everyone simply agrees with me! (Doesn't change my opinions though!)

:D

PS. For some strange reason I've had to re-register to this site - I'll try not to take it personally!

[Shady_Indigo]

Fraggle you are so right about ponies being like a family pet that should be kept for the duration of their lives (unless of course one does not have the means to look after it in the manner it deserves)
You don't see dogs advertised in the paper as
"For sale as owner wants a bigger dog to impress her friends with"

[cvb]

just got the latest Horse and Rider (takes longer to get here), and there is something about the no. of owners in a horse's life.

The average is something like 7 I think (too lazy to go downstairs and check) but could be much higher for some ponies.

Can you imagine that with a dog ?

Even if I think about my veteran, who is 30. I have owned him for 16 years of that life. But there were at least 2 owners before me, and in the 'gap' of 6 years (while I was at Uni and before we bought him back) he had 2 owners. So he has had at least 5 different owners.

(Mind you, not many dogs get to 30 !!)

[ponynut]

I will never sell my ponies but loan them out to approved people who must keep them where they are! Not had a problem so far!

[Peace]

Looking over my new pony's vet records, it appears that I am his fourth owner. The poor little widget's not even three and a half years old yet!:(

[Karenr]

Surely a horse is a horse is a horse even if it's a pony? Man made the decision that horse would have to be called a pony because of it is under 14.2 - the makeup is the same.

My first horse was 17hh, second 16.1 (there's a pattern happening here), my third 15.3 and my latest 14.2 - my theory being as I get older it hurts more when I fall of so the smaller the horse the less the distance to fall!!!!

So far I have stayed on my "little horse" !!!!!!!:D

[Lightfoot]

Errm... though I hesitate to mention it Karen, but its not just the falling down that causes the problems as one becomes more "mature". Its also the getting up there in the first place.

At the stables I seem to be surrounded by younger (& shorter!) riders leaping almost effortlessly onto 16-17hh horses. Me - I'm the "oldie" trying hard not to be noticed as I slink off towards the mounting block leading my patient 15hh beastie.

[Karenr]

Oh Lightfoot I know where yr coming from - firstly I thought get a small horse I would be able to vault on - or not! This year had to invest in a mounting block to make life easier with my 15.3 - my excuse to all that watch with amusement - "It's far better for the horses back to mount from a block rather than the ground" - an element of truth in there.

Still, both my big horse and little horse are great fun - and size doesn't matter!!!

[Lightfoot]

Hi Karen,

You're right of course. But its not an "mere excuse" but a proven truth that 'tis far better for the horses back to use a mounting block. That's what I tell everyone anyhow !! Also saves wear and tear on this poor old riders muscles as well ! Mind you, its always useful to know I can get on from the ground in an emergency, that's why I favour "nearer to the ground" type of horse or large sturdy pony. But thinking back, when I was a kid I read loads of horsey story books where young teenage riders managed to clamber onto "borrowed" 16-17hh hunters / steeplechasers / racehorse /showjumpers from the ground. But I could never do it - always had to get someone to hoist me up if the riding school allocated me a horse instead of my usual pony

[Waikato Valuta]

Originally posted by Tumbleweed
How many of us oldies remember Stroller, a 14.2hh pony that won everything in the pony classes and then went on to compete in the Olympic games, done quite well.

I adgree that ponies can be fun but a 14.2hh in the olympics sound a bit ritch to me. Not that a 14.2h could not do it but (corect me if i am wrong) they would not be allowed to compete. The Olimpic rules and regulations clearly state that no horse can compete under 15h

[Mehitabel]

stroller was real, ridden by a lady called marion mould (who was marion coakes before she married). she was my mum's childhood heroine.

this link mentions her, scroll down about a third of the way.

http://www.horsejunction.co.za/information/Articles/thearticles/General/general2.html

[Waikato Valuta]

wow it's great that a pony was in the olipics i just thought the rules would not allow it.

STROLLER

A 14.1+ Connemara half-bred became the only pony to have ever competed in anOlympic Games. He was a member of the British Team competing in the 1968 Olympics itMexico, ridden by Marion Coakes. Bill Steinkraus and Snow Bound won the Gold Medal while Marion and STROLLER won the Individual Silver Medal, only four points behind Steinkraus. He was one of only two horses to jump a clear round in the entire 1968 Olympics, clearing a puissance fence of 6' 10".


I got this from http://hes.ucf.k12.pa.us/pae99/ccamp00/chansen/

[Tangle]

Originally posted by Tumbleweed
Someone wanted to bye my pony who is 14 hh to show him in 13.2 hh classes. Said that he would be 13.2hh when the measuring was done. Of course I kept him, there was no way that they were going to do that to him.

I did know about Stroller's height, and also Jane Holderness Roddems, I can't remember his name was under 15hh but had to be 15hh to compete in 3 day events, again they managed to get his hight up by various methods, but at least going up a height doesn't put the horse through what going down a height does.

This is probably a realy stupid (maybe make that naive!) question, but how on earth can you make a horse shorter? All I can think of is to stand it in soft mud and wait.....

[Tumbleweed]

This is probably a realy stupid (maybe make that naive!) question, but how on earth can you make a horse shorter? All I can think of is to stand it in soft mud and wait.....

No this isn't stupid, it was my reaction and many others when we first heard it.

The shoes are taken off and the feet cut right back, far too short, then they are lunged for several hours sometimes, depends on how long it takes to wear the pony out so that it is too tired to stand up properly. When every your or a pony is extremely tired you can't stand up properly and are not as tall. We are taller when we get up in the morning that we are going to bed at night.

Although the surface that they are measured is supposed to be level, a lot of places don't have level ground. The are measured where it gives a better reading for the pony's height.

I think things have changed now, I heard that the height measurements had to be taken at 3 different times at 3 different places. Hopefully that will stop this happening.

[Mehitabel]

one of our boys, toby, is well up to height (he measured at 147.5cm at his 7 year old vetting and the height limit is 148) and you wouldn't believe some of the things people told us to do to get him under height if he looked likely to go over. one of the nicer things was to put drawing pins in the measuring stick to he'd learn to flinch away when he got measured. his issue is that in a new environment he carries himself taller to look more imposing and scare off any potential threats, almost stands on tiptoes and head right up in the air, so when he's anxious he can measure 15hh! the vet, luckily, understood our predicament, and came and measured him at home first, so he knew how big he actually was, and let us take him to the vets a few times beforehand for practice runs so he was relaxed and didn't feel he needed to show off!
but we were shocked at some of the things that people told us to do. we have an ex-ja pony on livery with us who used to do the 148cm classes - she's a good two inches bigger than toby. god knows what they did to her to get that measurement.

[Jay.o]

i like the thought of making a horse smaller - its not right to me !

so tell me if i am wrong but.....................

to make a horse taller do they but extra thick shoes on and add thing into them so they are higher from the ground ???

[ponynut]

I am really just a happy hacker (tho competent I will happily take on rescue case to bring on and rehome) The importance of height just makes no sense! The barbarism to make a pony fit a showing class sickens me.....

[Lightfoot]

Not a serious posting - but on the subject of changing heights:

Read somewhere that there used to be a cartoon picture type series in a children's comic (years ago) abount a girl who's Dad was an inventor and made her a mechanical robot horse. Horses legs were telescopic and at the press of a switch on the saddle she could vary height from about 13hh to 18hh. Very useful, lots of adventures, "cranking up" the height when in the saddle to rescue cats from trees, fording flooded rivers. One week storyline was legs had stuck at highest setting (rusty perhaps from the river crossings ?) needed a ladder to mount. And when she couldn't find a ladder her friends formed a human pyramid and she climbed up them to reach the saddle.

[Mehitabel]

sounds like inspector gadget!

[Fraggle]

I could do with a pony like that......

I could crank if down to shetland pony size so I could mount and then up to Shire horse size so I can leap over the bigger jumps.

Obviously it would crank back down to shetland size if I was in any danger of falling off (as I did recently!) and an inflatable matress would shoot out of a hidden compartment for me to land on .

Ooohhhh, I could go on for hours!

On a serious note, trying to make a pony smaller sounds completely barabaric! Do people really want to win so badly they're willing to hurt their own pony to do it.?Sounds like these people shouldn't be anywhere near ponies/horses.

:mad

[galadriel]

One of Herriot's stoies is about the day he was the official vet for a local fair. One of his duties was to measure the ponies. He ran into a bunch of people with certificates that were faked. He also had a guy show up when he was partway through and start telling him what people were doing to make their ponies smaller. One of them was pricked in the withers with a pin (like mentioned above) so they couldn't get a decent reading. One had been standing in his stall for two hours with a weight over his back to get him down 1/2". One had gotten him to take off 1/2" for shoes when it was barefoot!

[anuvb]

To add a little side note to the topic. I have also heard, but not actually seen for myself, that some owners will actually put drawing pins in the bandages of the horse/pony that they are jumping so that if it knocks the jump it will get stabbed, and encourages it to pick it's feet and legs up more neatly. Barbaric if you ask me.

[Jay.o]

about the drawing pin thing - thats awfull !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tangle]

and there was me foolishly thinking that most people had horses/ponies because they liked them and enjoyed riding. I agree with Fraggle - anyone who cares more about winning than the health and happiness of the animal they're trying to work with shouldn't be alowed to have a horse!

But I do like the idea of adjustable legs ;) . After 3 lessons where I had to use the mounting block to get on board (each time it creaked and groaned a little bit more - at 5'8 I'm not a featherweight:p ) we had to find an alternative last Thursday as the block had given in. Fortunately they've got a nice raised wall at just the right height, but a magic "shrinking" horse would have made life much easier :D

[lamprellsarah]

this may out rage a few, people but yes i had a 14.1, and he was too small for me i had to sell him because i outgrew him, i am 5 ft 9 ish!!!!
i look silly on anything less than 15 hands/ 15.1!!
i mena i loved him and i loved riding him but too much longer and with me still growing i would knock over the jumps with my legs!!!

[ponynut]

I recently bought an arab mare.
I never was fussed about her height- her nature meant far more. I will not be competing her in height restriction classes.

[lamprellsarah]

i have found one in your horse this month on the second page, a 15.2 hanoverian x, 10 years, done PC teams , BSJA, Newcomers and XC which is sadly outgrown not this girl must be very tall to out grew this horse, or well they are lieing!!!!!
cost £4,500!!!

[Jay.o]

just saw that one and really you cant out grow a 15.2 hh can you ??

not unles you are about 7 or 8 feet and thats highly unlikely !!!

[galadriel]

Originally posted by lamprellsarah
i have found one in your horse this month on the second page, a 15.2 hanoverian x, 10 years, done PC teams , BSJA, Newcomers and XC which is sadly outgrown not this girl must be very tall to out grew this horse, or well they are lieing!!!!!
cost £4,500!!!

I'm 5'10" and most of it leg. I *can* ride a 15.2 horse but not comfortably. I'm really not terribly happy on anything less than 16.1. I wouldn't buy one shorter than that, because if it's *my* horse, then darn it I'm going to be comfortable on it!

(Of course, if it's a 15.2 with a body like a barrel, then my legs probably would fit decently--just most horses really aren't built quite that way.)

[Steve.R]

Just read these posts over Esthers shoulders and am as disgusted as most people about what people will do to win (as in shrink their horse) But having watched a couple of local shows, and seeing the way some of the parents go on at their kids to ensure they will win it makes one wonder about human nature!

the Scots Greys rode as the name suggests grey ponies... most of these being under 14.2. Best cavalry in Europe in the Napoleonic wars. This was stated by their enemies.

Em have to admit I have a 16.2 irish hunter but we were origionally looking for something around 14.2 chunky enough to take my weight, but PAblo was the first one we saw and we fell in love with him straight away. Esther rides a 13.2 ish pony and drives 4 shetlands so we have a mixture of all types the shetlands are the most gutsy of the lot one of them tried to jump a 3 feet high electric fence the other day..... it was very impressive right up until the point he snapped it!
Cheers
Stephen

[Waikato Valuta]

I am 5'7" and i dont generaly ride anythign under 16hh.

Dont yell. I own a 14.3hh I just like to compete in showing and find that I look more in propotion with these horses. I love my little 14.3hh and do jumping and dressage with him but when i comes to showing i go for the bigger horses. I dont see anything wrong with having a preference for a certain height.

I have never been put on anthing under 16hh except the horses i actualy own. I dont know why i just get the big horses when i go to get lesson to trail rides.

[TheMoose]

I do agree that many ponies that are labelled with 'outgrown' on them are not outgrown.
With the BSJA on your 17th birthday you are considered a senior. You have the option of a) re- registering your pony as a horse or b) buying a horse. I chose option b as I thought my 14.2 would not cope with the distances over the tracks. He was certainly capable enough.
It is a sad fact that most of the kids do not move on to a horsey 14.2s or horses as their riding is not good enough to cope with the difference. Therefore they totally give up leaving their string of ponies to be sold as 'out grown'.

[GingerPonyz]

I'm not really a "mature rider" but I would like to respond to this thread. I know someone who is 5'9" and can't ride a 14.2hh pony because her legs are too long and it throws her off balance, and in no way could she jump on him. (So they can be outgrown). I love ponies, somethimes more than horses because I feel that they can be your partner more, but on the other hand, horses can too. Personally, I think people should reserve judgement about breeds etc. until the have met the acutual animal- all horses and ponies are unique. I was just speaking from my own personal experience.

[Fraggle]

I have a 14.2hh Dales pony and I have very long legs. He is very deep in the girth and perfect for me. We also do jumping.

I think most of the problem with people saying they can't ride larger ponies is "in the mind" and the fact that they might get the mickey taken out of them by their peers.

Most teenagers I've met want to ride big horses because they think it makes them look more competent and more daring.

It's like having a sports car I suppose. When you get as bit older you realise that instead of a sports car to impress people, you'd rather have a 4 x 4 and go off-roading! (ponies!!!!)

I've ridden both very large horses and ponies and much prefer being lower to the ground. It makes me feel much more confident too.

PS. I've just taekn some photos of me and Sam so I'll try to post them next week. People can then see what a 5 foot 9 person look like on a 14.2 pony - blooming lovely!!!!

[Tumbleweed]

When my sons were young enough to be in the pony club they weren't interested in competing but a friend was. This friend had just bought himself a 3 year old TB and he wanted to do the Tetrathlon and asked if he could borrow Tumbleweed.

Tumbleweed is 14 hh, the friend although only 9st, was 6ft, for the weight he could carry Richard, but it was his legs. Richard had done the PPC on Tumbleweed but had grown a bit since. We tried him and Tumbleweed was happy even when jumping so off they both went to the Tetrathlon.

Richard said when he came home that he has to lift his feet up at every jump, but when he had to dismount for the lowering and putting back of the poles, they set off like they used to do when they done the PPC.

Both came back having really enjoyed themselves, they done well and didn't disgrace themselves, in fact they came about 6th in the cross country riding even though Tumbleweed was the smallest and the other horses towered above him.

Where there is a will there is a way, and it comes down to personal choice. There are ponies that can me ridden by tall people, they are so wide that they take up the length of the legs.

[Peace]

Technically, Quanah is a Paint Horse, but he looks just like what y'all refer to as a cob. Lots of bone in the legs, wide girth, and a stern like a tugboat!;)

I'm 5'9", most of it leg, and Quanah is 14.2, but we're a perfect fit. After years of my instructors putting me on 15.2 and 16 hh, I love being this close to the ground.

Especially since Quanah came with a western roping saddle. No kicking your feet out of the stirrups and sliding to the ground from this contraption! (Tried it once and got stuck on the cantle:o ) I have to leave my left foot in the stirrup to lever myself to the ground. Wouldn't want to try this from my old 16 hh lesson horse!:p

[anuvb]

Having been looking for a suitable horse for a while now, I have to say that I don't read "sadly outgrown" in the ads as just being outgrown size wise. Am I the only person that does this?

When I read the adverts, depending on the context in which the ad is written I often find (and have been to view) that the horse/pony that they are referring to, does not meet up to the ability of the rider or what the rider wants to do in the future and therefore have been outgrown. Whilst I can appreciate that you can do most things on a pony that you can do with a horse, balance is very important and some teenagers who happen to be very gangly and angular at certain ages don't have the balance on smaller horses/ponies that they used to ride, that they have on larger horses - often because they don't have the weight bulk to match up to the height and are a little "lopsided". I would probably say 80% of riders (teenagers/adults etc) don't feel very comfortable on horse back if they don't have that balance. I do think, that whilst it does come across sometimes that the teenager (I'm using the term, teenager, quite loosely here) wants a larger horse to give them more confidence etc, it's my experience that often it comes back to whether the rider feels more confident in the saddle. You can be as close to the ground as possible or as far away as possible, but if a rider is not balanced they will never feel secure riding.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter whether you are tall or not, outgrowing a horse can happen in a number of ways and "outgrown" in my experience often means that horse and rider are no longer suitable for whatever reason - but you don't find this out until you talk to vendor.

[lamprellsarah]

but then you can be tall and just not long in the leg!!!!
i have very long legs, and although i ride anything above 13.2HH, and i reguarly train three ponies one thats, 13.2HH other one is 13.3 and the last one is 14.2.
but all of these have a belly on them which make my legs not as low, if it was a TB type pony, he wouldn't be able to carry my weight (9st) and i would just find my legs a problem!!
i wouldn't choose to have anything below 15.2 because i feel most comfortable on tall horse, and i don't feel like my legs could meet under it's belly!!!

[lamprellsarah]

oh also, if you don't have confidence or a fantastic balance the length of a ponies neck can make you feel weird, my mares 16HH and very long necked and high withered, so it feels like it's impossible to fall off of her!!
a pony that has a short neck nd flat back, makes you feel like you only have to sit on it to fall off!!!
this is also why i didn't like ponies because i learnt to ride on a 16.1HH TB ex racehorse, i got better when i i loaned a 12.2HH and found my balance and became more experienced!!

[Cheko]

I'm 5'1" ride at 8 stone and own a 12.3hh Exmoor gelding who I ride about 3/4 times a week. Not being a big built person either I would stupid on a 16hh horse, although I used to own a 15.1hh mare who I used to show jump years ago. He'll do everything a horse can do, on a smaller scale of course. He is a superb hack, does a bit of dressage and at the moment, I'm trying to teach him Spanish Walk. He's far sharper than any horse would be and is often one step ahead of me. If I think trot he's there already before I even ask him. No, I wouldn't want a bigger horse now. Anyway, you have to keep them stabled whereas with a pony, especially a native they can live naturally with a bit of help from the owner. Enjoy your riding whatever you ride.

[Waikato Valuta]

Why do horses have to be stabled?

I own two tb's a native pony a paint and tbXsb and they all live out doors. Thay have a rug on in winter and a light cotton on in summer but live outdoors 24/7.

[Tumbleweed]

Why do horses have to be stabled?

For a lot of owners, stabling their horse is for their own convenience, they can ride anytime instead of when the weather and the state the horse is in allows.

There are other reasons, some livery yards won't have the horses out in the fields during the winter because of the damage they do which can cut down the amount of grass for the next summer. Competition horses are usually stabled so that the food that is put into them is not used to keep them warm etc. as well as keeping the coats clean and convenience.

Some people think that horses are the same as humans and feel the cold like we do etc. but with modern rugs no horse needs to be cold and wet.

Where you live doesn't get a cold as the UK, during the winter it can go down past freezing during the day as well as night. We also have gales, driving rain, etc. A horse can stay warm with 8 inches of snow on their backs, but the driving rain, were the wind blows their coats and releases the heat, can have them very cold very quickly.

There are a lot more reasons for stabling horses, but for me there is nothing nicer that a horse in a clean stable, rugged up and warm, just been fed, plenty of water and munching on his hay, bliss and a very good stress buster.

[chev]

lamprellsarah, you made me laugh, that's so true! I'm not that tall (about 5' 5) not that heavy (about 7 and a half stone, but vary up to about 8) but I do have longish legs (31"). I ride Gelfy, who's pretty wide and stands about 12.1 or 12.2 and has a fair neck on him and find I feel quite secure. I used to have a cob of around 14hh who had a really short neck and all he had to do was put in an emergency stop, drop his nose and I was off!!

The other thing I find with ponies is that they tend to be harder to sit on without bouncing, as their strides tend to have that choppy feel! Does wonders for developing a good seat.

If I had to choose, then I'd have to stick with ponies. I love horses, I love riding them; but ponies are kind of special. (plus closer to the floor, always a good thing I feel).

[Jay.o]

i have a 14.2hh
i ride a mule thats 13.2hh - hes lovely but has different paces that a horse i think or they are slighty different not sure but some one told me that !
at my riding school i ride miricle a mare thats 13.2hh - shes so high spirited and cant go out on rides because she plays up and not suitible really - and there isnt any one small enough that is strong enough to control her in the school - apart from me !
shes a kind high spirited pony but does has an amzing jump and i dont feel too big for her when we ride or jump [ i am 5 foot 3 ].

i like ponies !
and like chv said they are closer to the ground !!!!

[Tumbleweed]

Going back many many years, I was once told that you are too big for your horse/pony if your shoulder is higher that the pony's withers.

I am 5ft 4 ins and my shoulder is 13.2hh:D

[lamprellsarah]

hi chev
well you say being close to floor is a good thing,
but well it's no use if your pony bucks my first one had the hugest buck and well i fell further then if i was on a 17HH and fell off lol!!!
and it had more speed to it, i felt like a flying bullet!!!!!!

[Waikato Valuta]

Tumbleweed
I do horses have to be stabled. I MENT why do horses and not ponys have to be stabled.

I live in australia so we dont get that cold except adozen or so days in the middle of winter were it can get down to below 0.

[chev]

Good point lamprellsarah!!

Tumbleweed, my shoulder's higher than all our ponies' withers! I would imagine it's the same for a number of PPC riders too - try telling them they're underhorsed!

But when I sit on the ponies because I'm pretty short in the back it doesn't actually look that silly (well I don't think so).

Waikato Valuta, I think ponies generally do better out than horses because their skins and coats tend to be thicker, offering better protection from the elements, they find shelter easier being smaller, their manes and tails are generally thicker and bushier which keeps the heat in and the wet out better, and they generally need less fuel to live on.

That said, there will be ponies who don't do well out and horses who manage fine. This is just a generalisation and really it has to be down to each individual.

[chev]

Just had another thought about how your question could be read so here goes.

The reasons ponies and horses have these different attributes are mainly attributed to breeding, in that horses have been "refined" through breeding while ponies have generally been bred to retain their pony characteristics.

If you study the history of most breeds there will be a point where it has been "improved" by an injection of outside blood - TB and Arab in the case of the Welsh Mountain, Clydesdale in the Dales and so on. As a result of the introdution of "finer" blood to the Welsh, it developed a finer, silkier coat, including mane and tail. This makes the most refined of the Welsh breeds, the sec B (riding pony) less hardy and more likely to need stabling than a more pure native like the Exmoor.

A lot of horse breeds are extreme examples of this, meaning they become less able to survive Winter without help (like stabling). Other horse breeds, especially those where pony blood has been introduced, do rather better outside.

I suppose generally the pony breeds (I mean the older pony breeds now) are closer to where they came from (Prezwalski's etc) and where we interfere with selective breeding we breed away from this, toward a more dependant type of horse.

Hope that made some sense!

[Tumbleweed]

If you study the history of most breeds there will be a point where it has been "improved" by an injection of outside blood - TB and Arab in the case of the Welsh Mountain, Clydesdale in the Dales and so on. As a result of the introdution of "finer" blood to the Welsh, it developed a finer, silkier coat, including mane and tail. This makes the most refined of the Welsh breeds, the sec B (riding pony) less hardy and more likely to need stabling than a more pure native like the Exmoor.

**The ponies that live on the Welsh Mountains, it is the grey ponies that start to go first in a bad winter, and this has been put down to them being more like the Arab than the other colours. This is not my oppinion, it was what was once thought. It was suggested that the grey Welshies were more Arab like, although to me they all seem the same.

Your shoulder being lower than the pony's withers was only a guide, I remember my 14 hh being ridden by a 6ft teenager in the Tetrathlon, but he was only 9 stone, well within the weight that he could carry, he also used to do the Prince Phillip Cup with him. The weight is far more important than the height, but some heavy riders ride lighter than a lightweight rider. It does get confusing at times.
:(

[Peace]

At 5'9", my shoulder is a couple of inches higher than Quanah's, who is 14.2. However, Quanah's own butt is higher than his shoulder, which makes me think he may grow a little taller as he muscles up and develops more (he's not quite three and a half years old). At least I hope so - he has a topline a bit like a Dandie Dinmont terrier's right now!:D

Speaking of kids "out-growing" ponies: one of my favorite teenagers was at the barn today with her QH mare. This girl is probably close to six feet tall (she dwarfs me!), and her mare is maybe 15 hh. But I'd feel sorry for anyone who told her she was too big for her pony!:D She does everything with this little horse: they're off to the hunter's pace tomorrow, and she's going to start team-penning with her soon!

[JoyF]

Agree with everything said here- I knew before I started looking that I wanted a pony and have a gorgeous Highland mare. Please let me know how your friend fares in her search for a Highland- I am 5'6 and weigh about 11 stone and she is only 14hh. But the beauty of natives is that they can carry so much weight and their girths take up even long legs. Even little Exmoors have been known to carry grown men all day.

[ponynut]

Not just exmoors! So did shetlands! Toughest equine ever! Most determined too! Fantastic beasties!
My 14'1 NF/arab pony is happily on loan now- tho I feel a touch jealous when I see loaner riding around with a big grin on her face!
But at mo I can not ride and Peps thrives on work..... and attention!