Help!!! What is this horse trying to tell us??

[Fizzy's mum]

Hi there,
This is on behalf of a friend. She bought a 5 year old throughbred three weeks ago. The horse was fitted for a new Throughgood synthetic saddle which she stood good as gold while the saddle fitter assessed the fit, watched her being ridden. SHe uses a Prolite pad as the horse is very high withered. Now about two weeks on, she has her bridle put on good as gold, but as soon as my friend approaches with the saddle, she gets really stressed, usually breaks the twine attached to headcollar when she tries to reverse and brings her back feet up under her tummy. Its as though she has tummy ache or is objecting to something. Its all rather frightening being in the stable with her as she is also prone to lashing out with her front feet. I stand outside trying to calm her, but we cant work out whats going on.

So has anyone got any ideas? What is she trying to say? Any remedies? The horse is rather underweight and they are trying to build her up...Do you think its because she is underweight?

Any help would be really appreciated!

Lucy

[Baffled2]

As the horse is reacting to the sight of the saddle there is probably a good chance that something about the saddle going on is distressing her. Perhaps you could get a second opinion of how well the saddle is fitting from another saddle fitter.

[Showjumper]

Did the saddler fit it with the Prolite or did that go on after they'd left? The Prolite will narrow the saddle if it isn't fitted to it which will be uncomfortable for the horse.

[BabyBear]

I'd say the saddle does not fit.

Also, most horses that people say are high withered are just under muscled which is something the prolite pad will help with but if you want to muscle up you need to add padding to make the horse the shape it should be then fit the saddle to that shape otherwise you limit muscle development.

[Thistle]

Whatever it is, it sounds like she is in pain, somewhere.

Sounds to me that she is objecting to the saddle, or maybe the girth? Have you checked all round the belly where the girth goes including the 'armpits' in case she is sore anywhere? Or is she objecting to being ridden? What is she like when your friend is on her?

[Yann]

The other thing with Tb's is that they can often end up with muscle wastage and many fitters, including some master saddlers in my experience, don't see this as an issue and will fit them narrow to clear the wither. If the horse is reacting badly to the sight of the saddle there is definitely a reason, either the saddle or a physical problem or both.

[Fizzy's mum]

well the saddle fitter suggested a Prolite pad and someone on the yard leant her one. As I am a Cob fan, the whole throughbred mentality is all rather baffling to me! When she eventually manages to get on her (she messes around at mounting block etc), I think she is ok. A little spooky, but she is only 5. I think she was stabled 24/7 before and we wondered if the daily turnout is stressing her. She is a pig to get out the field! Ok to catch, but plants feets and has been known to rear and tank off... Maybe she needs more structure in her day? We also wondered if she maybe ought to focus on her relationship with the horse on the ground and working on building her up as she really is very skinny. After the saddle objection today, she lunged her without a saddle and she was brilliant...

[Skippys Mum]

Sounds like she could be doing with lots of groundwork. Unless the saddle was fitted WITH the prolite pad, it will have made the saddle too narrow and it will be pinching.

In the field she probably realises she is going to be ridden:(

[vikkig]

my friends mare is really funny about her saddle and also rugs and this is because she had had a bad back in the past and she occasiates (sorry) the saddle or rug with pain.

i would get her back checked by chiro and then if there is nothing wrong with it help her with facing the saddle and not fearing the pain.

[Fizzy's mum]

Thank you so much for all your help... please keep it coming!!

Lucy

[*Sez*]

Ditto the others.
My TB had a similar problem. Saddle fitter came out, fitted the saddle and told me to use a Prolite front riser pad. I went and bought one, and called the saddle fitter, expecting that she would come back and fit the saddle to the pad, but I was told it "would be fine" :confused: I tried it her way for a week although I wasn't happy and in desperation called my physio.
I was told that my saddle just didn't fit, and that the Prolite was making the problem worse. So I called a different saddle fitter. The fitter used the bendy tape to show me the extent of the muscle wastage and found me a saddle that fitted nicely, then came back a month later to check it for me. The difference in the muscle was incredible, and he required a complete refit to the new muscle. For the next few months, we interspersed physio with saddle fittings, and finally had him sorted. I also had to buy a fleecy girth cover, as the girth was pinching him (TBs are prone to very thin delicate skin). It took a long time and a lot of money to sort the problem out, but the difference in his behaviour is amazing.

I would recommend that your friend first has a physio or chiro out - if the back is sore, then no saddle fitting will make it better. They will recommend exercises and perhaps time off ridden work if it is particularly bad. They will usually make an appointment for one or two follow up visits to see how things are going.
Then get a good saddle fitter out. A well fitting saddle should never need any kind of accessory under it to make it fit. Personally, I'd rather have the saddle checked and refitted regularly for a few months than ever use a pad again.
I suspect that "high withered" is really muscle wastage - lungeing and long reining, and working long and low under saddle can help build this up.
If it is a case of "remembered pain" and the back is actually fine, then it will take some time to show her that the saddle doesn't hurt. Try a few sessions of getting the saddle out, putting it in her line of sight for half an hour, and then putting it away. After a day or two, tack her up, walk her in hand for five minutes with a loose girth, then untack. Next, do the same with the girth a bit tighter - as if your friend was going to ride. Finally, lunge her in her saddle (don't forget to tie the stirrups or take them off) and see how she goes.
Good luck to your friend. It's not an easy problem to get to the bottom of.

[Fizzy's mum]

Thanks for thant reply Sez.... all makes a lot of sense.

Will copy and paste your reply to my friend!!

[Fizzy's mum]

bump!

[Retty]

Sounds to me like the horse is expecting pain at the sight of the saddle, I would get a back person out to check any sore points etc.

[kturner]

Try to borrow a treeless saddle, I have one as well as the normal saddle. He mucks about with the normal one and behaves perfectly with the treeless. It is a Cashel Foam saddle about 4 inches thick and cant hurt them anywhere.

I also walk him out in hand with the saddle on to keep him in practice and if the weather is bad over winter and we are not riding for a few weeks, I keep putting it on him in the stable everyday when he has his food (loose girth of course) just to let him know the saddle is nothing to be afraid of. So he wears it even if we are not going anywhere.

You say in the first post that you/friend have only had him 3 weeks, what is his history of being ridden, it might not be pain, but bad memories, which is what my pony had. Hence all the "saddle is OK" practices we do.

Is it possible to get hold of the previous owner? My pony went completely saddle shy after we had a sharer for 3 weeks. The sharer didnt last of course because he didnt like her, ran away from her when she approached with the saddle. Wouldnt give her his feet, pushed her right out of the stable once. Then we ended the share. He kept bucking her off as well. He obviously didnt like her. Took a lot of work to get him to like his saddle again after that (about 3 months).

I'm not saying your horse doesnt like you at all!!! but there could be things going on in his head.

[wonkeywoody]

Ditto the above.
You could also try a roller only for a while and see how that goes.

Sounds like you all have your wits about you and have realised the horse is trying to tell you something, which is great. Think you are in for a bit of a haul while you sort the prob and get his confidence back.

Good luck.

[appaloosahoney]

Cant quite work out if its a mare as you refer to her but other say him. If its a mare have you thought about problems in terms of her ovaries. Sometimes the pressure of a saddle, even if it fits well can press on this area, and if its painful, her prior knowledge of this will make her unhappy. I know with one of my mares this was a major problem, and you may well want to try a treeless. Best of luck

[poo-picker]

aww poor thing must be upset about something. but good on you for realizing and trying to get to the root of it. personally i would go back to basics a start by approaching her with a numnah and putting that on her. put it on and take in off a few times and if she ok then secure it with a surcingle or roller to see if her problem has embedded pschologically and if she associates anything at all on her back with pain. then try lunging her with the numnah and roller. if she is fine with this then i would say its the saddles fit and get another saddle fitter out. keep us imformed and good luck.

[Joyscarer]

Cant quite work out if its a mare as you refer to her but other say him. If its a mare have you thought about problems in terms of her ovaries. Sometimes the pressure of a saddle, even if it fits well can press on this area, and if its painful, her prior knowledge of this will make her unhappy. I know with one of my mares this was a major problem, and you may well want to try a treeless. Best of luck

Dito that.

I would always assume first that it is a saddle fitting problem but them that's an issue I have had before so I would make that assumption. Good place to start though.

My friend has a pony that was progressively getting grumpy and girthier and it turned out that he has ulcers.

I'd go down the route of getting out a physio. I did this with Joy about 6 weeks after I had the saddle fitter out and she still wasn't right. Pointless getting the fitter back again as he had already told the saddle fitted. The physio didn't know about my concerns but soon picked up that my saddle didn't fit and treated my horse. I bought a new saddle from another fitter after that.

[eml]

Just a couple of points:

There is obviously a saddle issue but very few TBs can be fitted sucessfully with a treeless unless already in good condition and well muscled.

I think the more fundemental problem is in the horses background. You say he came from being stabled 24/7, was this in a racing/professional yard?

If he has been in racing he will not have had a conventional saddle on, racing exercise saddles are still extremely light weight and have a tiny 'footprint', riders are always legged up, never mounting from block or ground and carry little weight on the seat.

Turnout is an issue as well suggests that this horse is used to one routine so you really need to find out what this is. Difficult as it is there are a lot of TBs straight out of racing who do not know how to graze and for whom a field is a big scary place. We always start ours with some loose time in the indoor school and then short times in a field. Once they are used to this they spend as much time in the field as possible with other suitable horses (playful but sensible!)

Without knowing the horses background it is hard to advise but try to explore all issues not just the obvious.