Curious.....

[anuvb]

I don't often look at other forums but was perusing the classifieds on the BHS web site whilst my boss wasn't looking and came across a thread about a lady (I think) who was having problems hacking out her ID cross as he kept rearing up. As I think I have been quite lucky over the years in never having a horse which reared on a regular basis, I was wondering what some of the more experienced (or unexperienced) people's opinions and solutions were to this problem.

For those of you that haven't read the thread on the BHS website. Some of the solutions suggested were as follows:

- in controlled situation such as the arena, recreating the problem and letting the horse fall over backwards on himself.

- cracking an egg over the horses head so it feels like it is bleeding and won't do it again

- striking the horse across the ears with a riding crop so that it feels as if it is hitting his head agianst a ceiling and stops.

- hitting the horses belly with a strap (apparently a R.Maxwell technique - but can't comment as I don't know) as it will want to protect it's more vulnerable parts and will come down.

What are your thoughts?

[Mehitabel]

buster used to rear a lot (still does if he's really annoyed) and once went over backwards on me when he tried to spook at a car while walking over a main road on his back legs!

i wouldn't recommend pulling him over - yes, it'll scare him, but it could also do him some serious damage, and also he may well associate the fright with whatever he's rearing at, rather than the rearing itself. with buster, the only thing that worked was to wrap one arm round his neck so i was fairly secure, and then lots of leg, voice and stick, so it was an unpleasant experience to be up in the air. he has a long history of getting the better of people, and it was pure 'shan't' when he went up, not pain.

i don't know anyone who's done the egg thing, but i have heard of it. i don't like hitting them on the head, apart from a flick on the nose for biting, so i wouldn't do that. i've heard of the smacking under the belly thing, and i've done it with the young stallions inhand, but haven't tried it ridden - i'm not that balanced! inhand, it certainly brings them down quick smart, but again, i'd only use it when it's definitely bad manners and not pain.

i haven't read the thread, (i don't have the energy for the bhs board and all the snarkiness) so it's hard to comment on the individual case. in general, they start to rear because they feel they can't go forwards, (petal does this if she's boxed in by other horses and can't get away from whatever is scaring her) so i'd check the rider's hands - is she hanging onto her reins when the horse spooks in case it runs off? it's a common thing - you use your legs to get the horse going but hang onto the reins so it doesn't go too fast - the horse has nowhere to go, especially in a strong bit, so goes up. ten to one that's how it started, and then she got scared or came off, and the horse has learned a nifty way of getting its own way.

rearing is scary, and i don't blame anyone who's scared of it (i used to be, then got used to it, and then when he fell on me i got scared of it again) but it needs to be sorted out by someone who isn't.

[Wally]

First question is why is he rearing, it may be something as simple as a coarse rider, it may be the old teeth, back, tack problem. It may be lack of courage or a million and one things.

we had a horse to re school once who was a rearer, it was the familie's last resort before getting rid of him.....no matter how hard we tried we couldn't get him to rear......it was the lass who owned him who needed re-schooling.

There is no right and wrong answer you really have to see horse and rider in action and decide on the action then and there.


Our stallion reared with me once, he didn't take my weight into account and went over backwards with me, I don't recommend it, but he gave himself such a fright he hasn't done it again.

Som horses rear when they just are scared, so you have to back off and think again.

It's a scary problem,

[shaver]

My experiences with rearing usually are young horses trying to test me and my abilities. A trick I was taught was put your hand on their withers, or just in front of the saddle and a slight push before they get up to high they will come down fast and with there front legs slightly out a bit, ( They think you are going to push them to the ground) .They may try it two more times but the same approch will stop them from trying it again and it's not hard to do. I have done this to older horses as well,and it's work the same. My gelding likes to rear up the first ride of the year, has done that for the previous owner most of his life , after two first rides he no longer does it. :cool:

Shaver

[anuvb]

Thanks for the feedback. The reason I posted was that I think everyone is so well informed (and helpful) on this web-site I was really intrigued to know what you would all do! Plus as it is not a problem I have ever really encountered (I've had horse go up out of fear once in the blue moon, but usually if you take away the fear then I have had no problem), but this really intrigued me as it sounded as if it was happening very regularly.

I'm not sure of the entire circumstances of the rearing - like I said it was someone elses thread (I like the phrase snarkiness Es - I had similar thoughts!).

I also had similar thoughts about letting the horse fall backwards on itself. I have known one horse did this and it had to be shot as it broke it's neck (not to mention the injuries to the rider). One of the other suggestions rather than an egg was to use pig's blood as apparently horses don't like the smell of pig's blood (!? - I am sure I wouldn't as well!) - and I am not entirely sure that a lot of these aren't almost "old wives' tale" type cure.

[Wally]

Eggs, pig's blood, cow's or sheeps blood will, have no effect, and if there is fear there a whack will re-inforce it!

You have to be SO, SO sure the horse is doing it in malace and not fear or pain. And if he is doing it out of malace....what made him like that in the first place?

[Rachel C.]

I would follow the same path as Wally why is the horse rearing? Would be my first question!

When old pony would occasionly rear - when she was scared of something in front of her - There was no trick to getting her not to rear - she had to learn that whatever scared her was not actually all that scary, which was often a long process, but a worthwhile one, as she hardly reared at all after that.

To be quite honest rearing isn't a problem that many people seem to have (correct me if I'm wrong) but out of our yard of 30 horses, none of them have a rearing problem, and only a couple have ever reared.

My beleif is the main cause of rearing is bad hands on the part of the rider. I won't say anymore!

[galadriel]

Kat rears occasionally when she feels she just *can't* go forward: when she's confused, when she's in pain, when she is frightened. I push her forward with my legs, and in order to respond she has to put her legs down. This helps with her as she trusts me rather a lot. Typically, I can just push her through whatever she was rearing at--if she does it again, it isn't fright; it's pain and I get off and fix it.

I met someone last week who had just in the past month had to put down a horse who reared (not with a rider) and fell over backwards. The horse damaged her spine, they think...she was just never able to get up again. I would never encourage a horse to go over backwards.

Any rearing I have ever seen is a result of pain or fright or both. I would think malice is very unusual for a root cause of rearing...

Heheh. All the problems I have posted about Kat having...you guys must think she's a terrible horse to deal with! She rears, she's race-gallop-crazy, she's had nasty abcesses, it took forever to teach her to depart on her right lead, she can't be separated from Duchess easily...my goodness. But she's my baby. Nothing she ever does is deliberately dangerous, and she'd NEVER hurt me. Deliberately, anyway!

[Gracie]

I have heard of the egg thing and also pouring hot water (*or warm water) on the horses head! I think its cruel! I think horses don't do it to be mean, they do it because a) your aids arn't clear b) tack or somewhat isnt fitting right c) teeth or back d) young and immautre! I think if the horse can get away with it in hand they will try to get away with it in the saddle! I think you need to go back to the basics.

[anuvb]

Ah - am glad to see that I wasn't going completely bonkers. When I read some of the replies on the BHS website I really couldn't understand why some were even being suggested! I began to wonder if I had missed out on a valuable part of my horsey education! I really can't see why a horse would need either pig's blood/eggs/ or a whack over the ears to get it going forward.

If I ever encounter this as a problem then I think I'll stick to my current mehods of riding scared and frightened horses before I try some of the other (erm cough cough) "methods"! Ride them through it confidently and teach them to trust you and I think you manage to overcome most problems!

:)

[Shady_Indigo]

Some of those suggestions from the BHS board are insane! what are those people on over there?!! It THEIR fault if their horse does it. If the horse had complete trust in its rider like it should then it would turn to the rider for reassurence and carry on if it was scared.
If it was just plain old getting excited and misbehaving a bit then the rider should just ride the horse firmly on and ignore the behaviour. An aggrivated and uneasy rider will never have a calming effect on her horse.

[shaver]

Alot of young horses that are green broke will eventually try bucking and rearing at one point just to see if they can get away with it, or to see what you are made of ( Testing you and your ability) Once they do that and you correct it out in a calm mannor they usually don't try it again, My gelding was never corrected I would guess, he reared on the first ride of the year, (spring) And only that time, the next year of owning him he tried it again and I corrected him again by a gentle push on his withers he has never tried it since, and it's been 8 yrs now. My younger one tried it in the spring just after she was broke that fall ,and a gentle push she has never tried it since and that's been two years now. I don't ride in the winter months because of the snow and ice, so they have from january till march off!
Shaver

[¶¤Lil Cowgirl¤¶]

Hey

I was working with a 1 and a half year old stud inhand, And he had reared... So i started to think of why he had reared.. And i figured out that he hadnt been handled since he was 6 months old... And that he was a bit afraid of humans, And we had been passing through a squeaky gate. So i figured i would join up later to help gain his trust.

But a lady saw that he had reared and told me these exact words " Whats your problem? Are you going to let him get away with that? Next time he does that crack him right across the knees as hard as you can with a whip... Teach that bugger a lesson "

I was completely flaberghasted at her comment... She had drove away so i went back into the barn, Put the horse in a stall and completely flipped out to my friends about her comment. I was enraged that a person would mention doing such a thing... I would have minded the comment as much is she had said to tap his knee's but to crack him as hard as i could with a whip UGH... and then "to teach that bugger a lesson"... Ugh i could have given her a peice of my mind! :mad:

And i have heard of that egg thing... I thought it was crazy sounding. :rolleyes:

[K&K]

Beauty rears in hand when she's impatient and wants to GO ... like when she's the last horse in the field and I'm leading her in ... it is fear that makes her want to go, but it is impatience that makes her rear.

When she does, I wait until she comes down (instead of risking making it worse), and then I gave her a snap on the shoulder with the end of the rope and circle her, making sure she's calm before moving on. I won't let her move forward until she is.

[floppy]

the egg thing, warm water and blood sounds like a bit of an effort.

Does a person really have time to take an egg out of their pocket and crack it on a horses head while its rearing while trying to hold on so they dont fall off?

Can a person from the ground reach the horses head to crack an egg on it if the horse is rearing?

Same with the water and the blood - I would be interested to know how these people can carry a contaier/plastic bag of water/blood and pour it on the horses head whilst its rearing with them on the horses back....or how they can even reach the horses head when its standing up on its hind legs!?

I once read that when a horse rears apart from holding on you have to try and turn the horse to the side or something.

Also mares have more tendancy to fall over backwards whilst rearing than geldings or stallions. Because stallions and geldings spent alot more time playing with one another and rearing dueing play fight so they have a better balance.

Thats my knowledge on rearing. Elja rears once ina wihle out of excitement but you can hardly call them rears...just a little bunny hop.

[anuvb]

Floppy - I wondered the same thing. I have wondered whether a lot of it is to do with the definition of rearing as well. In my case, yes my boy does lift his front legs off the ground every now and again, but certainly when he jumps his legs come of the ground much higher, so unless it happened regularly with a horse I've been riding (which luckily it hasn't) I doubt I would take too much notice and just ride them through it. I can see if you have a horse doing little bunny hops then it might be possible to balance enough to crack an egg and so on, but then you have to ask yourself whether the rearing is so bad it is necessary to use such methods which are potentially going to panic the horse even further.

I think probably that pulling them over to one side unbalances the horse slightly so that they will automatically put their front legs back down in order to rebalance themselves.

In my experience, horses only seem to go up properly when really frightened and the only time I have ever had it happen, I have been lucky enough to be on the ground handling the horse, rather than clinging on for dear life. Am so glad that I am not the only one that seemed to think that the solutions suggested were, erm, a little barbaric!

PS - didn't know about the mares vs males thing - you learn something new every day!

[Bebe]

I exercise a horse that will rear out on hacks if she can't go at the speed she wants or has to be held back for any reason. I put it down to her background, she's hunted so is very bold and likes to power along but also her owner does a lot of fast work on her through the open fields around us and now as soon as the mare sees a field, she wants to go. She's also ridden in a vulcanite pelham, which I don't have a problem with, but with roundings, which I don't like.

The best way by far to stop her from rearing is to push her forwards and avoid situations where she has to be held back for some reason (group hacks with not so experienced riders are a big no=no, I learnt that the hard way. With experienced riders that can set a good pace she's fine, also if she can go out in front). She's fine if I can put her in trot and just let her swing along.

If she does rear, I sit with it and when she hits the ground I turn her in a tight circle (she never rears just once, it's almost a temper tantrum type thing where she goes up a few times and then starts snorting and bouncing). If I feel that she's going to rear and I can't push her as forward as I need her to be, I'll turn a tight circle then also as she can't rear off a circle.

She never does this in the arena, in fact she's lovely to ride in there and goes in a mullen mouth snaffle. I just think she's been conditioned to go fast on rides and gets frustrated when she's told that we're changing the rules today.

Amanda

[Mehitabel]

amanda - that's pretty much what buster is like -he knows what he wants ot be doing, and will tell you in no uncertain terms if your ideas don't agree with his!

he's 20 now, and home bred, but when he was young, the owner followed some bad advice from an 'expert' - to leave him untouched as a youngster to let him mature as a horse, so then they found themselves saddled with an unhandled 16.2 strong willed monster. unfortunately, the girl who broke him in was nervous of him and he knew it, and he started rearing then as he quickly worked out that when he reared, she backed off and stopped asking. he has very little sense of self preservation, and when he throws a temper tantrum he will do anything to get his own way. he has mellowed with age, and when he's fit and being worked regularly he's fine and gets quite laid-back - it's just getting him fit while keeping yourself in one piece! he's also very accident prone, so is often lame with puffy legs, cuts etc - so fittening has to be done quite often! he does it in the field as well - he's fine to get the headcollar on, but getting him out of the field is a different matter. he doesn't do it with me any more, since i loaned him we bonded and i can do pretty much anything with him now. but he's definitely a horse whose respect you have to earn.

[Wally]

Hákon will rear if frustrated and infuriated, confused or just angry...so the answer is to ride him with respect and kindness. Wind him up and you have a plunging hooligan on your hands. I have seen a woman who was supposed to go riding at a BHS school every week ride him SO COARSLY that he nearly went into orbit...she blamed him and said he was a bad horse. So I got on and showed he can be ridden in shoulder in on a loose rein. Frances took him on a hack the next day with clients who had witnesses "MAD HORSE" and couldn't beleive he was the same horse. Frances rode holding the buckle on the reins and steered with her bum and legs.

I have seen our bomb proof schol mistress' try to buck a rider off as she was not used to being ridden so harshly, but the rider would not listen and alter her methods. Frances would not beleive me when I told her Ugla bucked!

So in my experience 98% of problem horses are caused by problem riders...not in all cases but most.

[mikka]

I vaguely recall a very skilled western horse person from my childhood telling me to "sheep rein" a horse if it reared. It meant leaning forward and pulling one rein far fore, outward and down. I guess it creates flexion on the neck so the horse can't move upward. He swore by it.

[Bebe]

Just wanted to say that the mare I ride rears with other riders too, it's not just with me. I think she's fine with her owner but then she's allowed to canter a lot which is part of the problem, other riders don't know where they should be cantering so she has to tell you, and then gets annoyed when you don't!
She's also quite bossy and pushy on the ground and has a lack of respect for people that shows up in little ways, like refusing to pick her feet up, crowding you with her head, not moving over or back, etc. I've been working on this when I ride her (that's usually the only time I handle her) but it's a slow process.

[Spydgal]

I also know of someone who`sheep reined' by pulling the rein to one side which pulls the horse off balance so he cant go up. This occasionally has resulted in the horse rolling down onto one side which isnt particularly good but a lot better than coming over backwards and potentially breaking something.
We had the dentist here last week and were particularly worried about a new TB who rears. Whe the dentist arrived he said that a rearer is better to be done in the stable and he took him in and allowed him to bang his head once being silly. he didnt try and do it again!

[galadriel]

!! My horse rears out of fear; she HAS reared repeatedly inside the stable, and will do so again if frightened. Banging her head when she's just standing there she's learned not to do, but she WILL freak out and rear and injure her head on the roof if she just loses it. Be careful!

[virtuallyhorses]

I've only had 3 'rearing' experiences - one on a horse who was terrified of trucks\trailers - we went up and I simply 'climbed' up his neck and talked in his ear, while making sure that the rein pressure encouraged him down. Spectators who knew the horse were horrified (since I didn't ride at that stage and was supposed to be on one of my once a year hacks) but it did the trick, we came back down and continued on with no harm done. I felt instinctively that I had to 'load up' his front end by standing in the stirrups and calm him down. I certainly can't imagine that whips, eggs or any other bizarre antics would've helped.

Wally, I agree on the 'coarse riding' issue - I am embarrassed to admit that the next 2 rears were on my own horse - totally my fault. He spooked and cantered a little ways, being new to one another and I wasn't prepared enough to simply sit it out, instead I grabbed with my hands. He objected (quite rightly I now feel) to my harsh and fearful reaction and made his feelings evident. Again I just shifted my weight up his neck - this freed his mouth and we continued on with my education ;)

[Waikato Valuta]

I dident read past wally post about the egg so i dont know if any one else has said this but i personaly saw a horse that was a cronic rearer stop rearing in a matter of about 30seconds because on the egg trick. I think it realy works. I am shore alot of other think work as well.


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