Any ideas?

[measles]

I don't know if anybody can help me here but i am running out of ideas with a mare of mine. Not to stereotype in any way, she is a 14.2 chestnut mare, connemara x tb (definitley more tb). She was bought over from Ireland about 8ish years ago and does seem to have had a reasonably bad time ie gallopped everywhere and jumped to death. To give you my back ground, i am a rider with experience of about 23 years and have had horses for a very long time. everything i have owned or ridden has been highly strung and i would say i am a calming influence. This mare has puzzled me. i have regular lessons with a view to overcoming our problem. Our problem is.. this mare regularly loses the plot. we can be riding in a nice relaxed outline yet all of a sudden she will lose the plot completly and decide to run through the bit and continue at full speed. i curreny ride her in a copper loose ring snaffle but have tried her in a KK correction, a happy mouth three ring gag, a rubber straight bar and a hackamore to see if there was a problem with the mouth. both my instructor and i feel it is purely psycholgical(sp). when you shorten your reins she panics, when you change the rein she panics and what is also strange is that she prefers sitting trot to rising (which to me is the reverse to most flighty equines). i have had her back and teeth checked, her saddle and bridle are fine and we can find no reason for her behaviour at all. She is not repremanded in any way for her behaviour because as i say, i think it is all in her head rather than evasiveness or naughtyness. i can hack her all day long, take her to the beach and gallop her and we have no problem. all of the tension seems to be school related. Does anybody have any ideas at all. PS. this mare has a home for life although everybody thinks i am barking. her previous owner of 6 years has given her to me becuase she could no longer cope and it was preventing her from furthering her experience. she too tried everything and was very sensitive to her needs but could find no reason to her. If this mare was sold she would end up as meat, without a doubt. I can not think of anything else to say but any advice will be appreciated

[Mehitabel]

poor little thing, and how lucky she is to have found you. have you had her since she came from ireland, or have you got her recently?
do you lunge her or loose school her? how is she then? it could give you an idea of whether it's just being in the school, or being ridden in there specifically.
do you jump her? does she enjoy it, or does it make her anxious? can you think of anything particular, like a certain school movement, that triggers her losing the plot? does she do it at walk or just at faster paces when she has less time to think about what she's doing? petal (my girl) will panic and shoot off sometimes when doing anything she finds difficult, like canter transitions (they've always been a bugbear because as a youngster she was very uncoordinated, and the mental block is still there sometimes at 9!)
sorry for so many questions!
i've done a fair bit of reschooling horses, and it really helps if you can pinpoint anything that particularly seems to set her off, any kind of pattern about when she does it.

[measles]

Gosh Es i had to print your reply off in order to remember all of yoru questions. Right... I have had her fo about 18 months, she isn't too good at loose schooling just runs round at 100mph, with regards to lunging she is great. in fact i have a 10 year old sister that rides her on the lunge and she can't ride, but the mare relly seems to look after her. I have jumped her and she seems to enjoy it b ut due to the fact that she seems to have been jumped to death previously i don't so much. she does rush towards them but doesn't panic in any way. there are no certain movements, no. it is as if she is enjoying everying and then all of a sudden "oh no this isn't what i am supposed to be doing, lets bolt round everywhere at full speed"!. she isn't too bad at walk but does run a bit (i don;t mean jog but speeds along). We don't canter anymore becuase you can never ever get anything nice from her afterwards and i figured i need to perfect one pace before moving onto the other. She is an absolute angel and will really try to plese but there seems to be this wall of panic that she can't get past. she has been brought back to the beginning but it didn't seem to help. in every other way she is perfect. What is also strange is that when she is blasting around, she has real balance as if it is something she has always done. she aslo has self preservation and i don't thnk she would put herself in danger, she purely speeds up. One thing is for certain, she is not nasty with it, she would also look after you and has never bucked or reared or napped? Please think long and hard as i say anyadvice is appreciated- i just want to help her (and me)

[Mehitabel]

hmm, sounds like a tough one!

one thing that i thought of was that if there's someone who can help you, you could try having them lunge you while you ride, or vice versa - start off just sitting there like your sister would, and see if she's still good on the lunge. gradually start joining in your aids, and see if she panics. if she does, stop using your aids and hand control back to the lunger. if she doesn't, have someone on the end of the lunge line but doing nothing, and then when you go into the middle to change the rein or whatever, quietly unclip her and have the lunger pretend to lunge - have their hands as they would if they were lungeing, hold the whip, use voice etc, just not clipped on.

i've done this on horses who have been hauled around or ridden badly, and it's quite useful to acclimatise them to gentle aids with no pressure - if it gets too much for them the rider can go quiet and give the horse a minute to calm back down and go back to the 'safety zone' of being lunged before trying again. in theory it should help to desensitise her to whatever is worrying her. it's worked before for me, but i've only done it where i've known the root cause of the problem.

another thing that might help is to do bits and pieces of schooling while you're out on a ride - if you can find a flat space, do a few circles and movements, only for a couple of minutes to start with and then go on your way again. gradually build up to get her used to doing things she's anxious about in an environment where she's happy.

you could also feed her in the school, turn her out in it, and generally make it a pleasant place for her to be.

the general thing that i've found with panicky ponies is to watch out for any tiny signs that they give you before they go off on one - petal always holds her breath and flicks one ear when she's about to freak, so i've learned to notice when she holds her breath and i back off a bit - someone on the ground is useful for spotting these tiny signs. when i ask for something that previously made her panic and she copes with it, she only has to do a couple of strides of whatever it is and then we come back to walk and lots of praise.

sorry this is a bit of an epic! i shall keep my thinking cap on.

[measles]

as i happens, this is exactly what we are proposing to do in our next lesson. the lunge excersice that is. it is on Thursday so if you don't mind i will come back to you with an update then. With regards to the feeding and turing out in the school i do all of this anyway. its strange really, although it is only in the school that she seems to panic, i wouldn't associate it directly with the school if you understand what you mean. she can play about quite happily in there it is only when you come to riding. About the last bit of advice, there isn't relly anywhere i can do schooling bits and bobs when out hacking. Saying that i have tried when we are on the beach and she does seem to get just as het up there although you can still buckle end her in walk and she will tootle quite happily up and down the beach after she has calmed down. Thanks for your suggestions and i am crossing my fingers that lunge schooling will help. it is a good job she makes up for her problems in every other way - god know where she would be now if she didn't. Have you any ideas why she might freak at rising trot rather than sitting becuase i find this rather puzzling?

[ros]

May I join in, chaps?

In rising trot you're putting all your weight on the stirrups at every other stride. It's just possible that the stirrup bars might be pressing into her shoulder. A couple of checks you can do are 1) look at the bars from the outside - do they look to be deeply recessed? Also, can you get your leathers on and off easily; 2) feel the inside of the panels where they cover the stirrup bars - does the flocking feel at all different? If the bars are digging into the horse they will tend to push the flocking away and you will feel slight hollows in the panels at that point.

Another check - lift up the outer flaps of the saddle. Some makes have a harmless looking little strap very near the stirrup bar which is supposed to stop the flaps from lifting up. The strap can be quite thick and it goes around the arms of the tree. These little things can cause real pressure points against the shoulders, but the good news is they can quite easily be removed.

Assuming that the stirrup bars are OK, does your mare always "freak" on the same diagonal, or does it make no difference?:)

[galadriel]

Hmm, well, I can tell you what I did to calm my girl down. I think she raced for 5+ years; she's a loon. For two months after I got her, I lunged or rode bareback in a halter. Any time the saddle went on, she thought she was "working," about to gallop--so we just avoided the saddle, period.

If it's something about the arena that bothers your mare, perhaps doing something *different* while working in the arena will help. Have you ever ridden her bareback? If she doesn't think she's "working" she may not flip out and tank off.

Or if, as ros suggested, there is something funny about the saddle, riding bareback would help that too.

I understand--believe me I understand!--how difficult it is to ride an unpredictable horse bareback. (Especially considering that Kat is built narrow and she was *very* skinny when I got her. Ouch.) However, sometimes trying oddball things leads to wonderful results!

And hey, if she would never do anything to disrupt you on her back, she may be MUCH more careful with you bareback :)

Good luck--tell us how Thursday goes :)

[virtuallyhorses]

Hi sounds quite similar to one of the school horses when he arrived - chestnut gelding tho. I think you just need to give her a lot of loose rein work in the arena - the shortened reins and rising trot (rise into 2 point) are perhaps reminding her of all the strenuous indoor jumping.

If you can try some very low key stuff in the arena - I mean standing with you just sitting in the saddle without a hint of wanting to go or be anywhere in particular. Give it a good 5 - 10 minutes or however long it needs for her head to drop and her to feel totally relaxed.

Then move off on a free rein - wander around a bit, don't stick to the track - wander completely aimlessly . Do at least 10 or 15 mins like that before starting to ask for a slow rising trot - do not shorten the reins - trot on a long loose rein. If she does that happily - go back to walk and stop the session. Try to make sure that you walk or stop prior to her getting upset.

Each day extend a little but go slow - only shorten the reins by an inch - if she gets tense at all, drop down into a really relaxed walk and pretend you weren't asking for anything. When she relaxes - get off, give her a rub and end for the day.

I agree with Galadriel - do things that aren't normal and gradually work back to where you want to be - but don't push it. She needs to know that being relaxed is ok

[Waikato Valuta]

when you shorten your reins she panics, when you change the rein she panics and what is also strange is that she prefers sitting trot to rising (which to me is the reverse to most flighty equines).

how do you know she prefers sitting trot. Dose she work better like this. Some horses find that when you sit you take more controle you are constantly sitting and driving them forward. But if you rise they can become less atentive and let there mind slip else wear. Not saying this is her problem but it wouold be worth looking at.

She is not repremanded in any way for her behaviour because as i say, i think it is all in her head rather than evasiveness or naughtyness.

I found this remark strange. If it is all in her head then why not let her know it is not on. Raise your voice when she is realy naghty and maybe carry a whip and give her a little smack is she gets out of line. Horses need to be told everything in black and white. If you say to them I dont want you to eat that grass but if you do i wont try to stop you then they will eat the grass. But if you tell them you must not eat that grass i will not let you they will soon stop trying. dont be to harsh but make her know she has to work and if she is good she will be patted and not have to work so hard. she will soon figer it out.

[measles]

I haven't had time lately to update you on my progress with my mare. I am pleased to say that i have finally managed to calm her slightly, i don't know how but one day it happened and since then we seem to have become closer. We (my instructor and i) also established that the majority of her panic arose from a person being in the school while she was being ridden. It would seem that at some time she has been hit or abused in some way, by somebody on the ground. It would appear to be a very easy explanation, however as you will know you always think pain, bad tack, teeth etc first. Now, when i am having la esson my instructor has to stand in a corner rather than at the centre of the school and since we seem to have solved part of the problem i have been told that she is more than capable of completing a simple dressage test. This astounds me after the months and months of problems that i have been having. She does still suddenly lose it for no apparent reason and that is something we shall keep working on but for now i am happy that for 75% of the time, my mare is a pleasure to ride.

Thanks to everybody who offered advice. Its nice to know that people are happy to help when others are struggling.

[Evol_or_revert]

Poor pony :( sounds a bit like my horse randomly freaking out, Not sure if anyone will read this post but i'll give u my ideas on wat to do. First The arean(sp) (or where u school) can u turn the horse out in there??? for a day or night or week?? can u turn a friend out with her?? and feed her in there??? if u can't turn her out in there just feed her in there. Bitless bridle... you said u shorten reins and she panice also when changing reins and at rising trot, try something that doesn't touch her mouth it could be a bitless bridle or just a halter.


is she the only horse u ride??? if u have another maybe take things slowly with her walking on lead rope with her around different places pat her heaps, give her lots of careful attionation(sp) lunging carefully at just walk and trot. also leading her around the arean(sp) let her relax. If she has been galloped and jumped alot that would mean english riding, is it possible to drop english riding for bout a month and go to western riding in a hack more and western saddle?? it worked for a horse that had been over showjumped and would buck any one off in 5 mins. She may be worryed about what u are going to ask her to do ie if u are going to ask her to jump ect, stick to teh same thing everyday. With my horse it was get him in from the paddock put on bridle go to paddock lunge come in from paddock saddle up go out to paddock and walk/trot on a loose rein for bout 30 mins then unsaddle and put him away. After four days he clicked that we do it everyday and now he really enjoys it and each day i add new things to do


ok this post is a bit of all over the place sorry, hopefully u worked it out with your pony. if u want any more help or like any of my ideas e-mail me or post

Kimberley & Charlie

[Mehitabel]

that's great news measles! glad you've managed to get to the bottom of things. you'll have to learn those dressage tests so you don't need a caller!