canter training

[mikka]

How do horses learn canter aids? Through lungeing?

My daughter is riding a young and very green horse who seems to have NO idea what's being asked of her when cued to canter. She's a willing little mare and isn't being difficult - she just doesn't seem to get the aids. She gears up her trot to an amazing speed but has a great deal of trouble breaking into canter unless the rider is (overly) strong in moving her on. Even then, she'll do a couple of canter strides and return back to trot.

Any ideas?

[FreedomStar]

well, sounds like you should work this horse on a longe first to get a nice canter established.

[mikka]

Thanks, FreedomStar. I wondered if longeing (sp? I really have no idea how to spell this word - it seems to vary from book to book and country to country!) might be what she needs. The mare is new to the school and, it seems, has had no/little formal training. I really don't know why she's been assigned to my daughter as a riding school horse when she's so young and green - except that my daughter has a fairly solid seat.

Anyhow, not complaining. We enjoy the challenge.

Maybe I'll see if the owners will teach me to longe her under the guise of a "riding lesson".

[Mehitabel]

we teach the youngsters to canter out on rides, not in the school. when they're young and green, it's hard enough for them to go round the school in trot, let alone tryign to canter as well. we go out with someone else on a good older horse, and canter up a slight hill. lots of leg and voice, and lots of praise when the horse manages it.
it is a bit odd that your daughter is being given this mare as a riding school horse - it isn't down to the clients to teach the horse!

[cvb]

a young horse may only have the vocabulary that legs mean speed, rather than understanding that where and how they are used makes a difference.

They only learn that difference through repetition and reward.

How much can your daughter get away with if she is riding in a lesson ? If I was riding such a horse myself, I would be trying to make sure that I was absolutely accurate in how I used the aids, and carefully correcting and rewarding the horse based on their reaction.

So if the horse tries to rush off, she needs to use half halts to slow, steady and balance the trot, and then ask for canter again.

The trot should be forward going and loose, not tight and restricted, but the horse should need extra speed to make a transition.

Then I would make sure I was asking for the transition in a way that made it easier for the horse to do the right thing. i.e. on a corner not on a straight side. Also making sure I had prepared the horse by getting a good trot, half halting, sitting.. then ask.

But is your daughter happy to be doing their training for them ?

[Dizzy]

Its a difficult call really, if you don't know her previous schooling. A well prepared youngster will have worked on the lunge and long lines and understand your voice aids and have a little understanding of your leg aids, from the long lines. This gives them familiar cues for when you start to ride them.

When you say 'walk on' and they go forward, you praise, then you say 'walk on' and add your leg aid, you praise. And as time passes you can drop the voice aid, and just ask with your legs. And so on.

I agree with Es about introducing canter while your hacking, cantering in a school is very difficult for youngsters, and when you add a rider, even with the most balanced rider it is very hard work for them.

Getting a good, balanced, responsive trot is very important, if the canter aid has just created a fast, flat trot, stop. If the youngster runs on into canter, it will be unbalanced, on the forehand and will probably end up with the horse leaning on the riders hands or just losing impulsion and falling back into a fast, flat trot.

Another thing is, when you have been successful with a canter aid, don't return your legs to neutral, unless you want to slow down. Remember that whatever leg is working behind the girth is saying 'canter' to the horse.

A good way to get them started is to follow another sensible horse, but make sure the settings are right, you don't want it turn out into a huge yeehay, only set off when the youngster is listening and relaxed, and make sure that the leg aids are used, so that the youngster will eventually recognise the aids and learn its the riders descision to canter, not hers.

Good luck, willing youngsters are enormous fun, and very rewarding.

Lesley

[FreedomStar]

your daughter was probably put on this horse because they trusted her to work fairly with this youngster.

[mikka]

Thanks for your excellent suggestions! I expect that my daughter has been assigned this horse because, as FreedomStar suggests, the school trusts her ability to ride her forward with reliable and consistent aids. But even with plenty of half halts and cuing on bends, the poor little mite really doesn't seem to
have a clue what's being asked of her (worsened, perhaps, by having to be cantered in two point?).

I think the suggestion of having her work alongside a more established horse would help.

Thanks.

[Bev Heron]

mikka,

In my longstanding cantering expertise of about 3 minutes & 44 seconds' stride time:p , I surmise that cantering in 2-point would make it hard for a child to give proper leg aids. You don't say how long your daughter has been riding or whether she's cantered for hours on more advanced horses, but as a beginner, I find it hard to give leg aids in 2-pt. And (probably for that reason) my teacher has never asked me to canter that way.

Where I ride, horses trot on clucking sounds and canter on kissing sounds. Your location seems to be North America. Is it possible that the horse in question speaks Californian?:p

[FreedomStar]

I think you should try this. Longe the horse, and everytime you want the horse to canter, say canter and flick the whip to get the horse cantering. Then ask for trot, and canter again. When asking for the canter, use both voice aid and the longe whip. Then after awhile, you should be able to get the horse to respond to just the word canter. Then try having a rider on, and have the rider say canter, at the same time giving the aids for a canter. Just do a short canter, lengthening it out each time. Eventually, you should be able to ditch the voice and just get the horse to move off of your leg.

I think someone already said that bit, but if not...:)

[mikka]

cvb and Dizzy, having re-read your posts I can see the faults in my daughter's efforts to get this mare into a (balanced) canter. Yes, the speeded up trot is flat and, yes, it's tight and too anticipatory. Despite her good efforts, I think my daughter is out of her league with this horse. The mare needs a more experienced rider.

Beverley: YES YES, getting a canter in 2pt is, at least for my daughter, much more difficult than from sitting. She's been riding for almost four years and is confident, solid and kind in her seat,
but I believe she lacks the skill needed - esp in 2pt - to act as "trainer" to a youngster.

I WISH the horse spoke Californian with clucking and kissing sounds but, alas, this language is discouraged in the manege. Now, swearing in French is another issue!

Thanks, all, for your help.

[cvb]

Hi Mikka

One thing to think about. With a young horse like this, getting into canter is such a big deal that they may not have much balance once in canter. Hence they drop back again as you have described.

One way around it is to start by working ONLY on the transition. i.e. don't expect to canter for more that a few strides.

Work on getting a really nice straight, active and forward trot. Put the horse in the best possible position to strike off, and then ask. If they don't strike off, re-establish the trot and ask again in the next 'nice' place. If you get canter, then praise but ask for trot relatively quickly. e.g. canter a half circle across the width of the school, asking for trot again when you reach the other long side.

This way you get more repetitions, and are not asking too much. Also it allows you to work on both upwards and downwards transitions, rather than the downwards always being a fall into trot. Every so often, when you get a really nice upwards transition, you can let the canter last a little longer, but she should always try and ask for trot BEFORE the horse loses balance and trots itself.

In terms of 'nice' places, she could work on a big circle, then ask for canter anywhere on the circle. Or ask on the second corner of a short side (first corner can be a bit worrying for the horse if it has bad balance). Or do half circles across the school as I described.

[mikka]

Thanks, cvb. I'm going to discuss your recommendations with my daughter and ask her to use the techniques you describe. I like your suggestion of working from a good forward, balanced trot and keeping the canter brief; and to anticipate and ask for a downward transition when she senses the horse transitioning herself back to trot....

Great advice.

[cvb]

well I was putting in all into practise last night ! My little western mare is getting used to her HM saddle. And we have always had a problem with canter strike off to the right. On Saturday she bucked me off !

So last night we lunged first. Really interesting to see that she was striking off disunited and then did an immense 'buck' to change behind. Then she gets unbalanced trying to do the downward transition too, and goes disunited again and gets very confused. Got her settled and going up and down into canter properly and then hopped on.

Did plenty of suppling work first in walk and trot. Started on her better rein first, got a really nice canter. Then swapped to right rein. A bit more trot work as she anticipates that once you've cantered one way, you will change rein and do it again. Then asked for a short canter right and she did it ! Not only that, but having got the trot nice again, she offered canter again ! :D big grins all around (I'd swear she was grinning too !).

[Dizzy]

Cvb, well done too you! Poor love was just getting in a muddle. A perfect example of how taking a step back and looking for a reason, reaps rewards.

A lovely read, I'll bet she was grinning too.

Lesley

[Bev Heron]

Yesterday I did my first canter in 2-pt.

This horse was so willing that he started cantering when my instructor said the "c" word. From across a fairly large ring she said, "Get into a nice working trot and when you're ready, pick up a little canter." When Blazer heard the word, he started cantering immediately. I was amused, but had to take him down to trot, so he was listening to me, not S. And from then on, when she wanted me to canter she used the term "that Other Gait." :p

At the end of the lesson, we cantered in 2-pt, and I was surprised that I could use my leg aids in that position, even tho I'm short.

Any sure fire cantering tips would be appreciated--I am under so much pressure (from myself) to canter well enough to lease--that's the only thing standing in my way. I'm watching videos and experienced riders at the Ranch, cantering during my jogging, making horsey shapes from a big pillow and practicing in my rocking chair, reading books, praying to the horse gods, rubbing my little Zuni horse fetish, combing NR for everything that's been written on canter since Day One, playing my Inner Video, cantering as I fall off to sleep, cantering the first minute I wake up....