Just another western trainer,

[levi1739]

I've tried to find a variety of western riders and events for folks to explore. There's quite a few more that I think many will like to witness, but these two are more useful in a "training" sense. They seem quite timely after reading some of the threads in other areas of the forum. Horses not paying attention, horses not moving forward, horses not loading, horses not stopping etc.

Well here's Richard Winters in a couple of videos that you might find interesting. He's a performing reiner and working cow horse trainer who runs a "prep" school in California. I like him, he seem's a simple man.

first one, 4:22 second one, 4:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06C8yeOtjv8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUgeZYty91c

These might be worthy of some comparative thoughts from folks. Is this good horsemanship at work?


Keep on, keepin on

Jack

[sotanimals]

the first one's really helpful, thank ya. (got a problem horse of our own, and i want to learn to be a trainer.)

[sotanimals]

Both are amazing!!!:D
thanks for sharing!

[Skippys Mum]

Hiya Jack,

took me ages:D. The first video was very similar to Richard Maxwell (who is along the Monty Roberts, Kelly Marks style). He does very similar work with the long rope and constantly moving the feet around. I went to one of his demonstrations here in not so sunny Scotland and was really impressed. He was getting almost instant results just by taking control and saying "this is whats happening". He's also very straightforward and keeps it all very simple - "you do this, I do that".

I read the comments about the second video while I was waiting for it to load and I wasnt quite sure what to expect. I was very pleasantly surprised. Yes, he did have a bit of a fight with it but most of the time he was blocking its pulling rather than doing the actual pulling himself.

When the horse got worse, is that what they call "extinction behaviour" (have I got that right) where it will behave really badly for a last attempt then give up and start to behave?

I would have liked to have seen how the horse loaded a second time mind you:D

[laura jeanne]

What was going on in that second video? I didn't like the way he was pulling the horse around.

[levi1739]

Some might say that it’s the horse pulling the human around. :eek:

Good trainers expect the horse to “follow the feel” and
“give to the pressure”. In the trailer loading video the horse is giving the ultimate test to the handler by bolting away from him. Richard is able to maintain some control by “pulling” the horse’s head to the side, but the control is minimal since the horse is acting completely
“reactionary”.

Pulling a horse sideways is one of the early lessons that a horse needs to understand. I often hear about horses that “pull away” (get loose) from their handler. This should never happen with a horse and could be quite dangerous if allowed. Horses that are able to accomplish this “pulling/breaking away” have either never been taught that a human can prevent it, or more likely, have owners who allow the horse to become disrespectful due to the humans lack of ability or unwillingness to discipline their horse.

The problem can then become what I call a “hole” in a horses training. The horse that Richard Winter is handling has been spoiled by poor owner habits and the horse is now reacting quite “dramatically” to Winters requests for control. The horse’s dramatics and resistance are “why” Winters seems to be so aggressive when pulling the horse. When a horse is pulling you across an arena, it’s no time for that “soft feel” by a horseman. That “soft/light feel” should have been taught (and understood by the horse) early in it’s training with humans.

There are two types of horses in the world. Those that need “pulled around” or “those that don’t”. If you haven’t pulled your horse around (softly or harshly) and it’s a respectful horse, than likely someone else taught it the lesson. If you haven’t pulled it around and it’s breaking away/pulling back, then maybe you should learn how or find somebody to teach you. :rolleyes:

Real horsemanship is real, and it sometimes happens very fast. We often have to go some pretty rough spots before the soft responsiveness is found. Had Richard Winters
“quit” when this horse became “scared/reactionary” he would only have added to the horses problems in the future. If the same methods are used consistently in the future, I suspect that this horses loading problem will decrease over time. If instead it is allowed to return to it’s “disrespectful” ways, I’m quite certain that it will quickly become unmanageable. Winters hasn’t cured anything, but he’s gotten a good beginning on helping the horse understand that “humans can speak the same language”.


Keep on, keeping on

Jack