Napping (?)

[floppy]

ELja is a sod. She goes wonderfully out hacking in company but alone is a headache. I have to lead her away from the yard and walk alongside her for 10-15mins doing some inhand work.
Then i have to give her time when i mount to encourage her to walk on and not to stand stand glued to the floor, if i use the whip she bucks - so i avoid that. But once we get a good distance away from home she does everything i ask and is an easy horse. I always give her a bowl of cool mix and carrots when i get back after riding her alone hoping she will associate going out riding with a bowl of mix when she gets back. I hold my patience with her incredibly well.

but I dont know what else to do...i dont know if maybe i should leave a bowl of cool mix out on the ride halfway o she haas a reason to ride away from home alone.

Any ideas?

I have also realised that when i go out alone with her she is quite tense in her back and you can feel that one false reaction and she will buck. But this goes away once we manage to up a gait without her thinking she should standstill.

If i ride her away she super glues her feet to the ground or she bucks.

she isnt tense when riding out with company just when she is alone.

when i frist bought her we used to ride out alot alone...but that was before she was introduced into a herd enviroment again. Since she is back in the life of living in a herd is she more difficult.

[Yann]

I've had a similar experience with Rio for what it's worth, maybe not so severe. She will hack out anywhere in company in complete confidence, and more recently has been happy to lead out too, even if it's just me with her on foot when Nat rides.
Alone though, the field leaving the farm can be interesting, she's full of tension, can sometimes jog and does a funny snaky thing with her neck, and you can feel her moving strangely underneath at times too. The best thing seems to be to sit quietly and do as little as possible, just keep her generally pointing in the right direction, she eventually settles.

Further afield she's had a few spots where she tends to stop, usually the junction of a path where she could turn for home. I've tried the softly softly approach a la Mike Peace, letting her look and weigh things, soothing her but keeping her head facing the way we want to go. After a minute or two I gently ask her forwards and it usually works, and I don't hack with a stick unless I'm going on the road. On the odd occasion it hasn't I've got off and led her a short way, as she'll generally follow me anywhere this always works. The thing I always try and keep in mind is that being out alone is unnatural for a herd animal, so it' no surprise if they get anxious and want to go back to their friends.

I'm no expert and I'm lucky enough to have a horse that tries very hard, but taking this approach has made the problem reduce over a short space of time. Good luck with Elja, I'm sure it's insecurity rather than any badness, neither of our horses have been in their homes that long:)

[floppy]

i was talking to another trainer today who actually gave me some varied answers.

She said to keep trying leading her out and then mounting at some point. - which is what i do anyway.

Then she said in extreme cases when one knows its got nothing to do with being scared then one has to show whos boss.

She said that one horse they had was a pain in the backend and so what they did was gave it a shap tap on its bum with rider sitting on it and then the horse would shoot forward in tolt and they repeated this for a couple of days until the horse was expecting it and went away from the yard before someone had the chance to shock him from behind and 2 yrs down the line noone has had a problem with him anymore.

but i think i will stick to just keep on trying.

Elja also goes out no probs with someone leading her or with me leading her..its just when im parked aboard that it becomes an issue.

[Tumbleweed]

Floppy, have you tried taking her out in long reins, you will have to get her used to them first, but they soon teach a horse to go forward if they are used correctly.

[floppy]

nope i havent tried it. thought abotu it but havent tried it.

I must say thigns are getting better she is only a pain in the bum when i mount for the first time but after a bit of walking backwards turing the head to the left and right i do manage to get her moving steadily forwards and once we away we can speed up the gaits.

however i have discovered though that she will only ride the one route, try and go for a shortcut home home or anything and wont have any of it...i guess it will come in time.

i also read someone with a nappy horse you should dismount and walk the last 10misn or so home...well i did that the first 2 days and then though i would try riding her all the way home but the silly mare stopped dead and waited for me to dismount :D

[Dizzy]

Napping is a very tricky problem to solve, and in my personal experience force just doesn't work.

When you lead her out , where are you in relation to her head? You want to be in front, a good exercise is to keep changing direction, be ahead, snake around and have her follow you. I use a driving whip, which is shorter than a lunge whip, and trail it behind, forward is good, lots of praise, if its fast, change direction, so you disengage the back legs, if she sticks, tickle her back legs with the whip, as soon as she goes forward, praise, change direction. Work on moving her around, ignore tantrums, just use your line and whip to disengage her and ask her on.

Horses dominate by moving those lower in the pecking order, to where ever they want them. You can do this quite easily.

Another thing you could do is change where she looks forward to going, as you say you always give her a feed when she gets home, move the goal posts. Work out where you are going, hide a small feed half way round, praise her and ride her back.

I know napping is horrible, but don't be defeated by it, look to control her from the ground, backwards, sideways, and forwards, be unpredictable, fair but demanding. If you have to lead out, do it on your terms, be ahead, walk with a mission, but do lots of halts, don't let her get ahead, if she does, turn and walk in another direction, pulling her round so you remain in front and dictating direction.

Long lining is brilliant, You can set up all sorts of pole exercises, and work on long lining through them. If you use your imagination there is normally a way through. I read somewhere that the journey doesn't matter, as long as you arrive at the destination.

All the best,

Lesley

[AlizasEdge]

I had/have this same problem with my off the track TB. He felt so insecure out on the trail with just me. He would try very hard not to show it, but I could feel him under me about to explode any second! Sometimes he would start leaping and spinning to turn back home! He would also refuse to go past the driveway...He could stand there forever.

After a VERY SCARY ride, I decided we shouldn't go out hacking alone again until he could handle it. What I did to help our situation was LOTS & LOTS of ground work before I attempted the trail riding alone, again. He needed to feel secure before he could relax out there on that scary trail!

Also, I took him on "trail walks". I never mounted him on the "trail walks", sometimes I would just let him stop on the sides of the road & graze for a moment & then we would head back to the barn & I would work him in the round pen or on a lunge line. I think he finally started to associate the trail with "less work" then staying at home.

He is still not 100% over his fears on the trail, but he has improved ALOT!

Please, please DO NOT use force. It will just create more problem. Your horse is not showing you signs of "badness" she is showing you fear.

Good luck~

[floppy]

thanks for that dizzy i had also thought of hiding a small feed on the way. That was my plan for next week.:D

dizzy, when i lead her out i start out walking ahead of her, then i drop back so her head is in line with my shoudlers and i hold the reins very lightly so she is basically following me without pressure or force. before i ride her i always do a bit of stopping/walking backwards/ circles/ changing direction briefly etc.

I would love to be able to just ride straight from the yard out but its too dangerous because of the road that i have to cross to get into the woods. and there is another way i can go without having to cross the road but i always churn up the nice grass at the yard so i refrain from doing that.

She gets lots of praise and when i go out alone she gets cut up pieces of carrots as treats.

i dont believe my horse is showing me fear. I dont know why but i do really believe that she is trying me on! Because i get the same stupidity from her when i ride in the arena on my own. she is a lovely mare, rather dominant in the herd and when she wants to be she can be quite stubborn, she does occasionally give me the same treatment when we ride out in company but thankfully we have stopped that. She knows i am a softie at heart, but i tell you when i said her name in a deep voice the other day when she decided to stop wakling forwards and she was rather surprised by that and started walking again.

as for double lunging i have only done this a couple of times with elja and although she is very good with it i would feel confident with taking her out, especially with this habbit of hers walking backwards.

I have also started riding her out with different groups of hroses - not always that same ones so she learns to be more independant. ITs working so far, i also have much better control over her when i ride out with different horses and not always the same 2.

[happyhorse]

don't know if this will help, but it solved my problem with my horse napping. He was terrible when i first got him, he would spin round, back up at hyper speed, half rear the lot!

it didn't matter how much u kicked, whether you used your stick , even if you got off and lead him, as soon as you got back on he would start up again.

anyway i solved it by using my stick but not to hit him, all i did was when ever i felt him about to do it, (i could always feel him tense up before he did it) was wave the stick backwards and forwards from his shoulder towards nose(on the side he was trying to nap to ) and he would proceed forward. Afer a while all i had to do was hold the stick in the hand on the side he was trying to nap to and he would go forward.

i also must mention that i had lots of schooling lessons , getting him listening to my leg aids , and we no longer have a problem.

[Dizzy]

Breeze and Elja sound very similar. When Breeze napped I honestly don't think it was through fear - I know when when she's scared, she looks to me for support and guidance, and she sticks to me like a worried puppy.

One thing I would advise is, is to loose the impression of being a softie. By that I don't mean be horrible, but by being completely black and white. A good response gets praise, a bad response a definite 'no'. Don't reward a good response with treats, just use praise.

The best advise I have ever been given, is don't approach a problem, with one answer. Engineer situations where your problems will arise, and have several solutions at hand to use. Horses react on instinct, we can plan ahead.

All the best,

Lesley

[floppy]

thanks for all the advice everyone.
the weeks are interesting...we make progress then suddenly we take on step back but then the next attempt is much better.
the treats have been reduced to only when she does a super performance in tolt - a quick tolt that leaves a smile on my face!

Yesterday we out with 10 other horse for a 5hour ride and for the majourity of the ride elja decided to lead the group - which was a first she nevers goes out infront of the other horses.

[Lucy J]

i had a terrible time with ciara for a while, either riding or long reining out the yard, sometimes she was fine, other times she wasn't. lots of schooling, using voive commands helped.

when out on a hack she used to stop and not move and back up/buck if you tried to make her or used a whip. what worked in the end was a 'wipwop' rope. RObert Maxwell uses them. all mine was was a piece of rope tied to the end of the reins so thatwhen she stopped I would use my legs and tap her gently on each side of her neck and she would go forwards. sometimes I would still have to circle her, but this has worked very well.