Muscles, pads, saddle fit etc.

[eml]

Ok I have a feeling I may be shot down in flames here!

In a perfect world horses stay the same shape and saddles once fitted stay fitted. In the real world as seasons change and horses work alters, shape alters. I have about 40 saddles and a selection of halfpads, polypads, risers, flair namnahs and other numnahs and with them can usually find a suitable saddle/pad for most horses in most conditions. (usually about 25 horses/ponies in work)

I have had saddle fitters out on several occasions, one of whom memorably 'fitted' a saddle and sent it off for restuffing without even the benefit of girth or running horse up let alone seeing horse ridden and returned it without retrying. Snag was the tree was actually too narrow and restuffing only served to perch it further on the back ( had to get another saddler out to produce statement of lack of fit:mad:)

My circumstances are different in that a saddle has to be a compromise for a variety of riders but it is not impossible provided you have a basic knowledge of horses and peoples anatomy and saddle structure and have a good eye or feel for your horse way of going to make temporary alterations with suitable pads, providing of course the saddle is fundementally the correct width and length and made with proper bearing panels for the type of horse.

Please also can someone explain how using padding encourages muscle to develop as opposed to the padded panel of the saddle, pressure surely remains the same and the need for alteration remains the same? Surely muscles development is best encouraged by correct riding in a saddle (with or without pads) that does not create pressure points together with work on the lunge/longreins, strapping etc

Wow sorry longer than I meant!

[Roofio]

erm - i don't know how or why:o but i do know that my boy's saddle was loose at the front, with a riser pad and a polypad a few weeks ago, but now is tight and he is muscling up around his withers. slowly, but he is changing.

[Nik-n-Kia]

I believe tha a sadlle should fit without pads fair enough if the horse loses condition pad it out if say rather large weight loss but I agree with the lunging/longlining etc

Saddles should fit. My TG that I have had since new is three years old and is just getting its first flocking shortly.

Seeing the amount of saddle threads lately makes me wonder what saddler is actually a term for???

Nikki xxxx

[titch_]

i think the idea of the pads are so when the mucsle is built up they can be removed.

Otherwise they will "fit" the unconditioned horse and when condtioned is gained the saddle would no longer fit.

Not 100% just My opinion

[Bronya]

As far as I remember from when Poohsmate fitted my girl's saddle...

Muscle wastage behind the wither from lack of work/previous probs etc:
You can flock the saddle to accomodate muscle wastage - but you then have to change the flocking AGAIN once the muscle begins to return - for example my girl is prone to being less muscled on her left behind the withers, so we get a small dip. Now I could have the saddle flocked so that's automatically catered for, but then once she's in work and the dip goes - I'd have to have all that removed. I have a bit of that white stuff for under bandages cut out to fit instead - once the muscle returns, I just cut it off my numnah and carry on.

General lack of muscle:
You have two choices here I think (for the usual one-saddle owner) - fit the saddle to the existing situation and keep having it altered/swap saddles every two weeks or so, or fit it wide and use pads, thus being able to adjust them as necessary.


Now for you - you have lots of saddles of different widths, so might as well just use whichever one fits at the time. Not everyone has that option!

[Iron Maiden]

I've assumed the padding works because when the saddle starts to get tight you can progressively remove it & allow more development, with a tree in the way that won't happen so you end up with a horse almost developing an inpression of the tree in it's back. This has happened to my friend's horse, she had the saddler out & they said the saddle is fine, it's the same shape as his back - well yes, I suspect that's because he's been wearing the same saddle since he was 4 & his back is now saddle shaped, not the other way round. Not good :(

[horsesforever]

Well I use a prolite and a thick numnah underneath my saddle but I don't expect this padding to encourage muscle depvelopment at all. The saddle was a teeny bit too wide when we got it (said horse had NO muscle and had I had one fitted to his then shape - it wouldnt have fitted a few weeks down the line when he was back in work) so the pads fill it out untill he builds enough muscle. When he changes shape the pads will be removed. The saddle is as you said, fundamentally the right width, and panels etc for him. But absolutely, the muscle will come from proper work,proper riding, strapping etc - I've never thought of pads as an actual aid to muscle development.

[Rips]

Please also can someone explain how using padding encourages muscle to develop as opposed to the padded panel of the saddle, pressure surely remains the same and the need for alteration remains the same? Surely muscles development is best encouraged by correct riding in a saddle (with or without pads) that does not create pressure points together with work on the lunge/longreins, strapping etc


It doesn't! The only circumstance I know about where using padding is appropriate, is to fill the 'pocket' of wastage until correct work builds up the muscle again in line with the saddle. It has nothing to do with the padding.
Unless you have a horse with muscle wastage that the saddle once fitted, or is a saddle you alredy own that could be a good fit when the horse is muscled - I honestly think this is a waste of time.

Why not spend the few weeks doing long-reining and build the horse up and then get your saddle adjusted/fitted? If you're going to bother spending the money, do it wisely.

The flocking in my saddle has degenerated from sitting up so long. Mocha will be fat and unfit when she's ready to come back to work. I won't bother getting the saddle adjusted until her back is right, if thats means unridden work, bareback or borrowing a saddle so be it. I will make do until then.

I don't paticularly want to buy Odie a saddle at the minute. He's young and undermuscled and I don't know yet what type of a saddle I will need (depends what type of a riding horse he'll make)

I'm going to save up and get a custom fit one from a local company I found because I rode in one lately and it suited me! And they had done a great job fitting it too the horse it belonged to.

I really dislike my treeless. It has several benefits, but several distadvantages which make it unsuitable for use as a riding saddle. Its a 'make do' saddle, the compromise I suppose for a saddle which fits most horses! I would like to sell it,right now its on hold for if I have to 'make do' :D

[NoviceNic]

Captain has padding for wastage on his right shoulder wither area. We have had it on for a year. His saddle also slips into his back. Is this a bad thing? :o

Editted because I put the wrong shoulder....Bad Mother...!!!

[Fizz]

after a year then heck yes:eek:

jay has gamgee on his right side as he has really bad wastage there which has gotten worse.

i will now be adding a real sheepskin half pad as well as his saddle is too wide for him right now and is tipping forward. as he fills out i will alter what he has from there.

[NoviceNic]

I read somewhere though that if the muscle wastage had been there for a long while then sometimes it is irrepairable. Does anyone know this for sure? Would like a Chiro's opinion on this maybe.

[Fizz]

i would think it depends on just how much damage there was, do you have a pic?

i would consult someone in the know about this for sure as you need to know one way or another xxxx

[Rips]

I read somewhere though that if the muscle wastage had been there for a long while then sometimes it is irrepairable. Does anyone know this for sure? Would like a Chiro's opinion on this maybe.

It would have to be quite a bad case - but yes, it can be irrepairable. (I doubt this is the case with Captain) Its where the blood supply has been cut off for so long that the nerves that innervate the muscle fibres die.
Some horses, doe to conformation or movement or whatever are just don't have the propensity to muscle up suitably to have a saddle easily fitted to them. I think this is part of the problem, no point trying to get your horse's back 'textbook' in order to fit a 'textbook' saddle to it.

[NoviceNic]

This is the most recent picture I have of him wearing his saddle....

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f161/gailndancer/nic/DSCN3284.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f161/gailndancer/nic/DSCN3291.jpg

It looks as though its cantle high again....Am I on the right lines? And he is dipping his back. :eek: Head in air again.

How many fingers clearance should you have under the pommel when the saddle is mounted? Anyone know.

[jaydevon]

ive never bothered finding out about the affects of wastage and pads, all i would say is imo, if theres wastage, then dont use a saddle, as i think any amount of padding is still going to cause more wastage, building it back up then having a saddle that fits to me, is the only way forward.

[Fizz]

apparently it depends on weight of the rider , 2 or 3 fingers i think is the recommended clearancebut it differs horse to horse:)

[Iron Maiden]

I go for 4 fingers clearance at the pommel, & you should be able to see daylight along the gullet when someone's on board so you know it's got spine clearance all the way down.

[CurlyWurlyRach]

I have a thick sheepskin halfpad and a fleece lined numnah fitted under my saddle cos it got it fitted just as my TB was coming out of a winter off and shes pretty scrawny so she's got a saddle that we hope will fit her when shes well conditioned and then the pad gets taken out (and then i cry cos its so lovely and fluffy).

[coyote]

I go for 4 fingers clearance at the pommel, & you should be able to see daylight along the gullet when someone's on board so you know it's got spine clearance all the way down.

Ditto this.;)

[CrisO]

I am using a comfort pad (without back or front risers) where my horse lost weight over the winter from a combination of box rest and a refusal to eat hay.
The saddle which was fitted in the autumn became obviously uncomfortable. The saddle fitter tweaked the flocking slightly and checked what padding I was using, - result much happier horse. I am quite lucky that Frankie is very sensitive and tells me as soon as something is wrong rather than putting up with it.
With lots of correct work and lunging plus feed that works for him, muscle is building up and as it builds up further we will drop the pad or rethink the saddle but he's young so his shape may change.
I am having 6 month check ups with the saddler to keep an eye on things but I'm hoping that next winter we won't have the same issue.

Incidentally, there was still adequate clearance at the withers but as the front dropped slightly, it affected the overall balance and the back tilted up and that was where he felt it.

[DavidH]

I'm so glad I have a WoW saddle (and so is my horse) :D
Currently adjusted every 4 weeks as he is building muscle. No pads required.