Different bits and different hands....

[Trewsers]

First, sorry if I've posted this in the wrong section - I might be having a blonde day but couldn't think where to ask. I was browsing the Shires catalogue the other night and couldn't help but notice the HUGE variety of bits for sale. Now, my old teacher told me that any horse should be able to be ridden in a snaffle - is this true? Why the huge range of scary bits? I know all horses are different - but why do some "top of the range" horses need such strong / severe bits? I know they all work differently, but can you tell me please when / where you decide to change a bit? What makes the rider able to say if they are going better in a different bit or if its just a case of the horse not listening to the rider (ie novice). Sorry if I'm waffling, but I am curious about all these bits - some of them sound dreadful. And is it true that novice hands can do a lot of damage with the wrong bit? Sorry for long post. Look forward to any comments.:)

[jaydevon]

any bit is servere, it is after all a peice of metal. so yes in a nasty pair of hands can be horrid. every bit works differentley, be it on the mouth or the poll. or like with the curb bits (pelhams etc) act on the lower chin/jaw.

a lot of bitting issues come down to the schooling of the horse, but a strong horse is a strong horse,

changing a bit opens up a mine field, as you have seen theres hundreds of different bits on the market, all doing different things.

i personally dont like changing bits, but will try different bits to see what the horses prefure, always lower grad bits like the snaffles, im looking at a different bit for snapper for jumping, not stronger, but something that works differntley to the one i use, as i need to stop her sticking her head down and leaning on me.,

then you have the use of bits for different things, ie like dressage and showing...
see a complete mind boggling minefield! go bitless, ah but thats ok if you dont want to show or do dressage

[SO1]

Bits are confusing. I have just bought a french link rugby pelham for my pony as I am going to start riding him in open M&M classes and the ponies are ridden in two reins eg pelham or double. Normally I ride him in a french link snaffle for everything except showing.

When I told a friend I was buying a pelham she oh that is very severe and your pony is not strong why do you need it - however a bit is as severe as the hands that are on the other end, if you yank hard with a snaffle you can still do damage to the horses mouth. If you hands are light then the pelham is not necessarily severe.

Sometimes bits go through fashionable stages at the moment the dutch gag is very fashionable.

[Mehitabel]

yes, novice (or experienced and unsympathetic) hands can do a great deal of damage. what people often fail to remember is that no bit will stop a horse's legs moving - it's an arbitrary signal that they learn - pressure on bit = stop/turn. so what matters is that the horse knows this, and chooses to respond. if the horse chooses not to respond or doesn't understand, you could have barbed wire in its gob and it would make no difference.

there will be times when a schooled horse, who knows perfectly well what is expected from rein aids, says 'nah, not having it' - this often happens jumping, or hacking, or xc when things are exciting and the horse chooses not to listen to the bit. that is when the more severe bits are useful - the increased pressure or pain from a sharp tug will cause the hrose to obey because of the unpleasant consequences. it's not how you want ti ot be for 'normal' riding though, and again people often forget that.

different bits have different actions and suit differnt mouth conformation -that IMO is the most important thing, that it is comfy in the mouth and doesn't cause pain by default.

top competition horses are kept very fit and they're often sharp - the stronger bit means that they don't think they know best and will listen to their rider. in some sitiuations this is critical, if you want to instantly collect a horse before big fence, for instance, or make a tight turn in a jump-off. it's also important to rmember that the riders of these horses are experts, and can use a severe bit sympathetically and in a way that won't cause pain where it's not intended, and have the skill to ride the hrose in a way that it doesn't back off from the bit and become scared of it.

[Nik-n-Kia]

Plain snaffles dont suit every horse.

I have tried snaffles, gags, pelhams, french link, waterford, lozenge and Kia has varying reactions to each one.

I use a rugby pelham for showing as Kia respects it and he also finds it comfortable and I dont feel that I have to have as tight a rein with it either.

When we are at home he is ridden in a loopring snaffle which is like a Wilkie snaffle but without the price tage. It is a snaffle with a rotating ring that provides poll pressure to help with breaks rather than hauling on the horses mouth.

He likes it and I like it. It will get its proper brakes test on the 7th of June at a Rideout lol.

Nikki xxxx

[Trewsers]

Thanks for all the replies - indeed its a really huge subject!! I was always curious to know about the more severe bits, because I know of several riders who are much more experienced than myself that use them, but mainly at competitions. But the thing that always puzzled me was that their horses seemed very well schooled etc. But you have answered that question, in that they must need better brakes for faster / more excitable work - like jumping or xc. I find the pelham thing all very confusing - two sets of reins is beyond me - think I'll stick with the snaffle............

[Joyscarer]

I find the pelham thing all very confusing - two sets of reins is beyond me - think I'll stick with the snaffle............

I funked it at 2 sets of reins too and opted for the roundings. Joy's had a fit at the curb pressure. The result was that I ride her in a cambridge mouthed pelham (ported so more room for her tongue) but with only the snaffle rein.

She is less fussy through the mouth, settles into a better contact (although I'm still light) and actually drops into an outline occasionally without me needing to ask her.

I saw the change of bit as a last resort and a failure on my part. But as it turns out popping her into what is effectively a hanging check unjointed ported bit is the best thing that I ever did and I wish I hadn't been so hung up about it and changed her bit sooner. :(

[CrisO]

When I told a friend I was buying a pelham she oh that is very severe and your pony is not strong why do you need it .

Hey would that be me:)

Actually don't mind Pelhams at all though prefer double reins to roundings - I've ridden horses that prefer the action of a pelham to the snaffle.
Was more curious why you were specifically going for a jointed pelham which brings in the additional nutcracker action rather than a mullen mouth or ported.

Opens the floor to debate about jointed versus mullen mouth by people who know more than me.

[xloopylozzax]

i have to admit never ridden in a jointed pelham always a mullen mouth.

the mullen mouth is simpler and i think (correct me if im wrong) when its jointed it confuses the already confusing action of the pelham, because it raises the head when the poll and curb brings it down :confused:

hate vulcanite pelhams though, too bulky and clumsy.

[Joyscarer]

Yeah I was advised not to go for a jointed pelham.

[Sticky's GF]

The majority of times i have changed bits is to try and make my horse more comfortable, not gain more control, but gain more acceptance. We have progressed from snaffle to french link to neue schule trainer to sprenger!!

The only bit I have bought deemed to be more 'severe' is a continental gag, which has a mild mouthpiece and spreads the pressure for added control.

Like most things bits seem to come in and out of fashion and once one of the 'big names' makes something and TM's it everyone else does their best to copy/out do it.

[SO1]

Hey would that be me:)

Actually don't mind Pelhams at all though prefer double reins to roundings - I've ridden horses that prefer the action of a pelham to the snaffle.
Was more curious why you were specifically going for a jointed pelham which brings in the additional nutcracker action rather than a mullen mouth or ported.

Opens the floor to debate about jointed versus mullen mouth by people who know more than me.

No that was notpoddle as well!

Actually tried him out in the rugby pelham french link version in double bridle with reins last night and he got a bit of a shock as he went to do one of his very rare silly buck things and he got a bit more than he bargained for when he pulled his head down - went really well after that!

I made an effort to be very light on the reins though and this is a bit of show tack for the open M&M class not for every day use.

[CrisO]

@SO1 oh dear - hassled on all sides. I know you have to go with something with double reins for showing so it was either a pelham or a double.

@ Sticky's GF Curious as to the benefits of the Sprenger and which one. I moved from a french link to a Neue Schule Trainer and while Frankie accepts it once ridden, he makes the most terrible yawing faces when I first bridle him. But he was broken to race so may not have been bitted properly.

[Nik-n-Kia]

My rugby pelham is just a standard jointed and I have no problems in it.:confused:

Was gonna get a mullen mouth but Kia leans so it would be just another excuse for him to lean on me.

Nikki xxxx

[eventerbabe]

mine wouldn't tolerate a straight mouth pelham so we went for a jointed. It may not be to the purists tastes but it suited my horse so i didn't have a problem with it. We've actually managed to downgrade. He started backing off the pelham so we moved into a kimblewick for hacking and a hanging cheek snaffle for schooling. Now we are in the snaffle for everything. i don't tend to chop and change bits, but if we experience a problem, like the backing off we had with the pelham, i'll reasses things and change bits appropriately.

I agree with mehitabel, some of these competition horses can lose all control when excited and i think for both horse and rider safety they need the slightly stronger bits.

[Sticky's GF]

@ Sticky's GF Curious as to the benefits of the Sprenger and which one. I moved from a french link to a Neue Schule Trainer and while Frankie accepts it once ridden, he makes the most terrible yawing faces when I first bridle him. But he was broken to race so may not have been bitted properly.

I have just got jez the sprenger dynamic rs (eggbutt). TBH it is very similar to the NS bit, but the loose ring was pinching the corners of his mouth. I tried rubber discs but his lip kept getting stuck in those as well! It looks like the KK but is slightly curved and is thinner. I only go on what I read but I liked what sprenger said about the bit. I was going to get the NS but found a 'deal' on ebay for the sprenger!

[Bay Mare]

Unfortunately quite a few horses have been spoiled in a snaffle because of the way that they were brought on. Some horse's like different actions, some don't like a bit at all. They don't read the books so sometimes they go better in something that we'd normally throw our hands up in horror about ... at the end of the day we need to go for what they're comfortable in not what we think that they should be ridden in! The only thing that I'm :eek: about is roundings on a pelham, don't like them at all and would prefer to use a different bit than use roundings.

At the end of it all it's up to us as riders to have the best hands that we can possibly achieve. I'd rather a 'strong' bit in good hands than a snaffle in bad hands.

[spikeylaura]

I've a feeling this might make some people throw their hands up in anger, but I'm all for a stronger bit if you cannot hold your horse in something simple. I use a loose ring french link for schooling/dressage but for hacking/jumping/xc he's in a dutch gag (still french link) with the rein on the middle ring. This is because I feel that it's better for me to take one pull on the stronger bit to have him slow down and listen than to be constantly leaning on his mouth in an effort to keep him steady.

And before anyone suggests that I go back to schooling him, we can walk, trot and canter like a perfect gentleman in the school but let his feet touch grass and he's a different animal.