Anyone here judge tack & turnout

[Snowyboy]

If so, WHAT are you looking for!

We got placed last in the tack and turnout section on Sunday but it didn't seem right - loads of people were saying that they thought we were the best turned out and couldn't work out what we were last!

My friend was placed first and even he was taken about as to how they won as they'd forgotton to oil under the feet, child stepped in mud and had muddy boot, etc


Not sure what else we could do to improve! The only comment from the judge was to add a collar pin to child - but that applied to all the competitors!

So - any tips/advice


(this is local showing btw!)

[*Sez*]

I came last in my only T&T show (actually, there were eight in the class and they only placed six, but the other girl pushed her horse in front of mine when we did the final lap stating that she "couldn't possibly" be on the end :rolleyes: ). The judge couldn't fault our turn out, but it was Salsa's first show with me and he was very worried by all the flapping tape and kept trying to hide from the judges, so it meant that she couldn't have a proper look at everything, such as the insides of my reins and my stirrups and leathers, so I think it was fair that we came near the end.
I also noticed that the horses with very good condition and weight came highest, which will have counted against us (Sal had only been back in light work for eight weeks since recovering from a life-threatening illness).
I think the judges are looking for an over-all smart appearance of horse and rider, and then more specific things such as whether your reins are clean, if there are any dirty/water marks on your saddle or boots, etc.

I was also advised to have 20p, a length of twine and a folding hoof pick in my pocket, in case I was asked. Apparently, if your hoof pick is the non-folding variety, you can be marked down as it would be very dangerous to fall on. However, it turned out that I didn't need any of the stuff in my pockets, but it'll be staying there just incase I am ever asked to provide it!

[Snowyboy]

she went over us with a flippin toothcomb! The one that won, she hardly looked at :confused:

never heard about the hoofpick etc - I'll pop them in! You never know :)

[S_F_S]

Have you got a picture - can have a scrutinise for you!

[Daffy Dilly]

Spare gloves held under the girth strap is one I always did, not sure if it's applicable for children as it's a hunting thing, but kiddies hunt too.

Have you got a photo? Would make it easier to pick up on things you may have missed then. T&T is an absolute minefield, we are not even bothering this year. :p

[Mehitabel]

her'es my checklist: http://rehorses.com/other.html#turnout

got everything on there? (and any other things anyone can think of, i'd be happy to add to it!)

[scoob&lill]

Yep!!
Depending on type of pony as to wether you plait or not,if native and has got a decent mane leave plaits out,just do loose plaits to get a slight 'wave' in mane and tail.If plaited make sure they are all the same size and on the correct side,i know some ponies manes lay the 'wrong' side so make the best of a bad situation:)
First of all the pony should be clean to the touch,not silicone clean,as goes for the mane and tail,obviously you use mane and tail etc but not to the excess!Hooves cleaned and scrubbed inside and out with oil on inside and out,use a toothbrush to get marks out of hoof if they have any cracks etc.heels and feathers should be clean and smooth,ears,eyes,nostril,dock wiped clean,i personally dont like oil but thats just me:rolleyes:
A white glove or cloth is a gud item for showing up a dirty pony!
Tack- i always go straight for the stirrup bars and buckles,remove and clean your treads with a toothbrush,wipe down with a smudge of shoe polish,clean any holes on stirrups,girth with a toothpick to remove excess saddle soap,wash your girth the night before and remove any old hairs with selotape,i was always told you musnt use a numnah under a saddle in t&t,but theres a huge debate on that one!clean the ridges on the edge of saddle with a cottonbud to remove excess soap,same rules really apply to bridle,ckeck all holes are clean and empty,use all the keepers so no flapping bits of leather(looks unsightly),bit shiny and clean,a pernickerty judge wil actually flip browbands over as they know its very hard to clean a fancy velvet one:rolleyes:Above all make sure the tack fits and looks 'nice' when on pony.
Lead rein should be as clean as bridle with all buckles shiny and clean,use brasso or autosol on any buckles.
The rider-Boots should be cleaned with a toothbrush and polished to a shine,make sure all the ridges on the edge of boots are clean with no dirt in,as goes with the soles,use a pick to scrape any dirt away,a thin layer of boot polish works well,but dont shine it up as child wil slip all over,Use the plasticbags that food factories use to keep on boots until literally the last minute!Jods should be clean with a nice colour,some judges dont like canary but like cream for example,make sure they are turned under to the correct length when on pony,shine your jods clips to a shiny shine and the rubber straps should be clean inside and out,shirt should be clean with a well tied,matching tie(browband button hole)Jackets should be clean and well fitting,I know its hard when kids are little as they grow so quick but it makes the overall picture look so much better,gloves again should be well fitted and still a colour(not faded from washing if the pimple type)I think there is nothing worse than gloves that are too big on little hands,Hair neat and tidy,some judges dont like a lot of fuss with all the different bobbles,ribbons etc,i prefer neat and discreet,as it floods the overall image with lots of splodges of bright colour sometimes!
As long as your hat is neat and well fitting it should really affect the picture although a velvet hat finishes it of better,but you can get well fitted velvet skull cap covers.
Same applies to the handler,well presented with well fitted clothes,hat,neat hair and clean footwear,clean gloves,discreet make up ( fire engine red lippy tends to take the eye somewhat away from the pony and rider though:D)
Think thats about it but i'm sure ive forgotten something.We used to clean the tack all week to get a lovely supple,conditioned feel to it,daughters boots were the boots she used to muck out with etc so they couldnt be done until the night before,we couldnt afford a seperate set of tack just for showing so we had to make doubly sure our tack was clean:rolleyes:
x

[Snowyboy]

I'll get a piccie edited and post it up

[graciemoo]

As much as it is about the cleanliness of your tack, the judge will take into consideration the condition of your horse as that is how it will be presented for its own turnout, as well as you. Plaiting with needle and thread is ALWAYS a bonus, Put your bit and stirup irons in th edishwasher on a high wash with rinse agent...gets them lovely and sparkly, just remember to rinse them straight away in cold water so the bit doesnt taste YAK! Gloves are a must. Make sure your reins are straight both from the bit to your hand and round to the buckle...tail should always be plaited. Blue rinse white socks to them them gleaming, wash tail four or 5 time to ensure all grease and skin is out (maybe less if your horses tail has thin tail). Your horse's coat should have NO dust/grease on AT ALL. and should be silky smooth - better results if you can do this without using coat shine products...
You, yourself should be immaculet (sp?). Hat silk perfectly straight and no marks on it or pulls/snags. Jacket should be fully buttoned, and shirt tucked in. For senior classes always best to wear a stock. Make sure you can tie it correctly, and secure it, as will look bad otherwise. Cream/beige/white jods should be gleaming, no hair on, not marks nothing...boots - make sure they are glistening, and not just because you havent seen the surface for mud for so long, but because they look like you just bought them...
The biggest thing to remember about tack and turnout is that if you have tatty tack and jacket etc, and you spend hours on it, it still may not look good compare to someone who bought new everything the day before! And you can win if someone looks better...

[TheHoglet]

i'm not a judge but i do heeps of t&t's with my ikkle fella and i'm not bragging but.......
we are getting quite the pros with our 3rd places last season hehe :rolleyes:

do you have a picture of your pony then i could help you with what sort of tack to use.

remember to-
oil the chestnuts
sew in the plats (platting bands are a no no) and make sure they are tight!
use saftey pins to attach your number not the ribbon provided (it looks messy) and neatly round off the edges on your number
check, doublle check and tripple check your tack and boots for any possible grease muck or dirt, oh and use a good quality tack conditioner to make your bridle supple
plat the ponys tail the night before so the tail is tat free and it also gives the illusion of a fuller tail
GLOVES!
SHOW CANE!
preferably a showing hat (no vents on the front) with flesh coloured harness
use plastic shoe covers to put round your boots and dont take them off till you are just about to enter your class

GOOD LUCK!! and keep us posted on your progress!
xx

[Snowyboy]

OK, I've picked the pictures that I think show the most detail


getting ready: we only put the boots on once child is on pony! Shows the backside of pony well

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u49/catiminilover/turnouta.jpg


you can see the saddle best in this one as she's just fiddling and not sitting right yet! The jods did get pulled over top of boots before she went in the ring :rolleyes: Corners were trimmed off number. Jacket is a good fit - its the way she's sitting in the piccie!

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u49/catiminilover/turnoutb.jpg

and we did get complimented on the plaits!

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u49/catiminilover/turnoutc.jpg


The bit had been through the dishwasher

The stirrups are only used for shows and are immaculate!

this is the overall picture (taken in a later class)

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u49/catiminilover/turnoutd.jpg


go ahead - any ideas???

Just being gray, we have to spend all day getting ready anyway so might was well enter T&T!

[Mehitabel]

i think they look super. often in T&T these days everyone is so immaculate that you could swap the places around and nobody would complain. it's certinaly the case round our way - there is the T&T queen who always wins, a bunch of others who look the same, and me propping up the end on a just backed baby in there for ring experience.

[HAYLEY GITTOES]

Your pony looks lovely, I would place her 1st everytime !!!!

[graciemoo]

tbh it doesnt really that you do in fact look very well presented, at the end of the day if the people who are in the ring with you are deemed more presentable then unfortunately there is nothing you can do...
You don't have the right number of plaits in mane and forelock, and they arent all even, some have lose hair sticking up on them too...
Was yur girth completely hair free? It will have shown up to a judge...i always scrub mine with fairy liquid the night before and blast it with the hose...

[Snowyboy]

thanks Mehitabel


we go in cos we spend hours getting ready anyway and its a good settler for both of them!

It settles them both for their later classes - we only do non-affilated, low key classes, strictly for fun, but even so, I do think you always try your best!

[Snowyboy]

I know - but the others' didn't have the right number either (I didn't plait him!) and I did count up as I was worried about that - I asked for 11 or 13 and got 10 :rolleyes:

Not sure what to do about the loose hair - he has loads of baby hair! I accept that btw!!!! Just wondering how to deal with Mr fluffy hair

girth had been scrubbed the night before so was hair, scruff, dirt, bits, fluff free :D

[graciemoo]

For loose hair on plaits = HAIRSPRAY! Try to avoid using hair gel, or similar, as often it can look like dandruff if it dries and the horse rubs - you have to pretty much wash it out to replait!

[sancho]

I commend you for doing T&T!

We have entered family pony but after a shocker of a class where the only ponies chosen where all of the same breeding/stamp and the winner was positively dangerous (pony not rider!:o) we gave up!

Hubby did go and ask the third judge where he thought we had gone wrong, (male + 2 women) and he replied in an exasperated voice " I have no idea what criteria those two were working to, its all beyond me!'

[Snowyboy]

aha!

Just had a good look at that link


We didn't have girth guards on - borrowed the saddle as it fits our boy and we don't own a show saddle and he's only on loan for 6 months so didn't want to buy one!

I have to take his every day saddle to the saddler tomorrow so I'll get those then



That could have been it!

Our plaits weren't the issue on this occasion - you should have seen the competitions ;) She liked ours :D I do accept there were the wrong number and in another competion that could have been a huge issue! On this one, we were def ahead of the others!

this is very useful stuff! Didn't think about the girth guards as we just have them on all our saddles! DOH :o

[Snowyboy]

Sancho - we had similar in the novalty classes, except worse really

I was at a show last year, where for the : Pony Judge would most like to take home - 2nd place went to a pony that had bucked (huge ones), spun and vertically reared with a 3 year old child on its back (only reason child didn't come off was the Dad was holding him on whilst everyone was shouting at him to get the child off before the pony killed his son :mad:) They took the child outside screaming, as soon as the child stopped screaming, in went a dummy, and back on went the child and they carried on - with two people holding the crying child on - and they came 2nd in a class of over 30 :mad: Needless to say, we don't go to that venue anymore!

[scoob&lill]

Nothing to do with turnout but i thought that the person with the rug round them had ear muffs on:D
Other than actually feeling the tack so to speak there doesnt seem to be much wrong in my eyes,the girth doesnt seem to look right with the saddle but maybe its just how i'm seeing it,Also leader had a different coloured buttonhole in,again its being picky but...
I think sometimes you just have to accept in certain clubs or shows there is always going to be the 'favourite'We had it for a few years,and then at our local show we had a different judge and guess who won!!The usual winner came about 5th or 6th,she was furious,she dragged her show pony out with the kid screaming because she wanted her red rosette from her 'aunty':rolleyes:
x

[scoob&lill]

Another thought,when my daughter was in lead rein classes in was a rule that they had safety stirrups,maybe it was just our club tho.
x

[Snowyboy]

it was cold in the morning! She did look funny :D

In the turnout class, the leaders button hole matched - piccie was from a later class where he'd run from an inhand to a lead rein class :eek: Poor man was KNACKERED by the end. The timings slipped and one class sped up and one slowed down and we lost an hour that he had spare :rolleyes:

But agree, the match is nice!

Scoob - no such rule here. She rides in them normally - we keep these ONLY for showing as I prefer safety's for kids

[graciemoo]

This is it...kids are so tight up on winning.
The show I was at on Sunday (yesterday) on all classes 16 and under, there was placing 1 -6 and then rosettes for all. When I was a kid, I was so happy I just got a rosette, not what was written on it...
Even yesterday when I was on Grace, I went with the mind set of having a good day out and coming home positive from the experience, winning/placing was not even considered, depsite achieving it...
Like someone has already said, you should always try your best, but we shouldn't be so bothered about placings, more about having a good time, with our horses/ponies, and just improving our own riding abilities...

[graciemoo]

PS - was your girth leather? Always try a leather girth, they look much smarter

[Snowyboy]

Gracie - I think you misunderstand what I am getting at!
My issue is I am looking for ways to improve not grump about not winning.

it was me that said we always just try our best and if you read all my posts you will see we only ever do this for fun :) However there is nothing wrong in asking where you went wrong, how to improve and what to look out for.

Thanks for the tip about the girth :)

[sancho]

I know you've written before about doing it all for fun and your daughter being over the moon just ot get a rosette.

I bet she much prefers the pink/purple ones anyday!!!!!!!:p:D

They look fab together. Showing is so subjective.

[graciemoo]

No I know it wasnt you that said that, I just couldn't be bothered to go back and click quite and retype the post...
My last post about kids and winning wasnt actually aimed at yourself...more at the people that do whinge about not winning, not that anyone is doing that here...but those who read the forum yet dont post...anyway, I am digging a hole, and I have no ladder!!

[graciemoo]

I bet she much prefers the pink/purple ones anyday!!!!!!!:p:D

Showing is so subjective.


Amen to that...even at 21...I want 5th (pink)!! And my clear round I had them digging around for a pink one, but they only had red and pink, looked poop, so took a lemon one...actually quite like it!

[Snowyboy]

:D Gracie - I do know EXACLTY the type you are talking about - and they are also they type that have their kids up agains the truck screaming in their faces when they don't win :mad: Hideous So agree with you and realise what you are saying! :)


Oh and at the last show - she was SO pleased to get 5th as she finally got her purple rosette she 's been trying to get for ages!

[sancho]

Amen to that...even at 21...I want 5th (pink)!! And my clear round I had them digging around for a pink one, but they only had red and pink, looked poop, so took a lemon one...actually quite like it!


LOL! I have never competed to date (watch this space...!) but, I do have my eye on a very fetching black and white clear round rosette at a local show!!!!!!!!!!!! Its soooooome dahhhling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;):D

[eml]

I hate Tack and Turnout and when on one occasion I was forced to judge it went for the ponies that felt really clean, not just bathed that day and siliconed and tack that felt as if it was cleaned every day, not new and kept for the class!

It is years since I produced LR ponies so my comments are probably well out of date but I would

Put in a lot more plaits to lengthen the ponies neck, also makes for less troublesome little bits!

Change to a white girth so the girth is a lot less obvious.

Borrow a smaller jacket, doesn't matter if LR child can't move, its the look that counts :rolleyes:

Shrink jods so they are tighter (daughter had to be talcumed to be put in hers :o)

Ideally a finer bridle with perhaps a rolled noseband and smaller bit rings

Childs hair plaits down back not over shoulder (adjust to suit hat straps).


....and brown leather gloves



OK so now you all know where SFS gets her show production mania from :D:D

[rtk]

Agree with the above

Your going to think I'm really picky but what did you tie your number on with. Was it the stuff the show gives you. Its better to use very thin elastic or plaiting band. My eyesight isn't good enough but did you sew up the ribbons on the back of the hat, apparently you are supposed to. Could be my imagination but does your pony have a bit of hair on its heels. With a plaited pony I would get the clippers out :D

I did wonder if your noseband is a bit high but not used to small ponies:D

And after all that they both look lovely :D

[kat1]

The whole thing just boggles me. When Nat did the RDA championship at the weekend, our tack was inspected and we got told that the noseband was too loose (any tighter and it would have been silly) and our numnah was too tight (how the blazes can a numnah be too tight?)

[Snowyboy]

thanks Eml - very handy tips (the ribbon on the hat was sewn up)

Agree 100% re the white girth - I had it on me and the little whatsit has blown out on grass as they went out just over a week ago and I forgot and couldn't get it done up (ooops - should have checked but hey ho - only myself to blame!)



Lots to think about (ie can I be bothered or not :rolleyes:)

but very very very useful comments - thank you so much for that. Much appreciated

Kat1 - how did Nat do then?? And we had issues with our noseband too - ours is at the height our Pony Club DC has designated correct, we had it lower and she hitched it up so up it went! however, For pony club its MUCH looser - for shows I've noticed the noseband seems to be strapped on so tight but I can't bring myself to do that to him :o

Had the numhah (spl) slipped so it was flat over the wither rather than up in the saddles gullet????? I've racked my brain and that's all I can think of?


rtk - yep it was the string - they attach the rosettes to the ribbon not the pony so we need ribbon to keep it on - something to look at - agree


and the jacket - dunno what to do about that as the jacket as it is just right in the arms on her - if we go down a size, its half way up her arms (she is thinner than she looks in the piccies so unless I have one made to measure they are ALL a bit baggy on her sadly) - not sure what we can do about that???

[Glider]

go ahead - any ideas???


Your pony looks beautifully white! I've only judged a handful of T&T classes and hate it - there are always so many things to weigh up - what is worse, the wrong coloured jacket or plaiting with bands; unoiled hooves or a scurfy tail?

I agree with all that has been said so far, particularly regarding the girth (either leather or white) and number string (black or blue knicker elastic with loops to go over the buttons at each end is very useful, but dark plaiting thread will do). Safety pins to hold it on look ameteurish IMHO.

The pony's bit looks a little low, and the throatlash a little long - is the bridle a bit on the big side, or does the photo not do it justice? Your noseband could perhaps go down a hole - just have a play around and see what looks best.

Pony's tail is lovely and white, but I'd have it a few inches shorter (and nicely pulled if it isn't already). If she's not shown as a native you could trim her heels a little closer and trim her ears to make them a little less fluffy. Some clear glossy or tastefully done black make up can complete the look of the pony's face. Do you plait with bands or thread? If you can sew them, try to make sure that no thread is visible - hooded or "cobra" type plaits look very smart, and would enhance you're pony's topline.

I think you're little girl would looks lovely with a bun, or two plaits down her back.

You're leader looks like he's made lots of effort, but his bottom button looks to be undone, and he'd look really smart if his shirt, tie and buttonhole matched jockey's. If you have several different leaders, maybe keep the matching things with your child's showing kit to lend out!

[eml]

Thanks, I looked back at my post and hoped you wouldn't think I was being harsh, was going to pm to apologise!

I have a motto that 'if a thing is worth doing it is worth doing well' and you have put in so much effort you deserve to go the other 1% to win!

Take up daughter's jacket, I just turned ours up by about 4" and handstitched so I could let it down as she grew. I had same problem with skinny child but if length is right the width ,provided its not crazy, looks less obvious.

Make bridle look smarter by having noseband /throatlash tighter, noseband lower, yes it is incorrect but looks are everything in showing. Still think you need smaller bit rings but a cheapy snaffle will do.

Make daughter sit up tall and smile, bribery works well, we had a pact, sit up and smile and I will buy a x (icecream or toy,what works for yours :o)

I will ask computer literate daughter to swallow pride and find some LR/FR pictures to show you!

[kat1]

thanks Eml - very handy tips (the ribbon on the hat was sewn up)

Agree 100% re the white girth - I had it on me and the little whatsit has blown out on grass as they went out just over a week ago and I forgot and couldn't get it done up (ooops - should have checked but hey ho - only myself to blame!)



Lots to think about (ie can I be bothered or not :rolleyes:)

but very very very useful comments - thank you so much for that. Much appreciated

Kat1 - how did Nat do then?? And we had issues with our noseband too - ours is at the height our Pony Club DC has designated correct, we had it lower and she hitched it up so up it went! however, For pony club its MUCH looser - for shows I've noticed the noseband seems to be strapped on so tight but I can't bring myself to do that to him :o

Had the numhah (spl) slipped so it was flat over the wither rather than up in the saddles gullet????? I've racked my brain and that's all I can think of?


rtk - yep it was the string - they attach the rosettes to the ribbon not the pony so we need ribbon to keep it on - something to look at - agree


and the jacket - dunno what to do about that as the jacket as it is just right in the arms on her - if we go down a size, its half way up her arms (she is thinner than she looks in the piccies so unless I have one made to measure they are ALL a bit baggy on her sadly) - not sure what we can do about that???

She did well - see Nat won thread x

[Snowyboy]

thanks Eml - nope didn't see it as harsh - it was very helpful! Constructive critisim (spl) is ALWAYS useful!

The bridle was adjusted by a master saddler so its been done to fit for general riding - looks like it needs an overhall for showing :rolleyes: I am taking a saddle down to him this week so I'll ask him to look at it when he comes out next

The bit is already a tiny bit - its a 4" dressage ringed snaffle with small d'son it. I've not seen any smaller d's :confused: Think we are stuck with that unless anyone can come with an alternative

His legs look FAR worse in the picture than they look in real life but point taken and if (and tis a big IF) we do it again, the clippers will come out

I didn't have his ears shaved out as he's on 24 hour turnout and we don't do this seriously so I will move down the line quite happily for him still having ear hair :o

N's button popped open when he was running :D

can't sew so that's my Mum's job :o

point taken re tie - adult one is ordered and on its way :)


this has been very very useful as you've found all sorts of bits that have gone straight over my head so very very grateful (and can't wait to see Eml's lr pics :D)

going off to find Nat's thread

[Daffy Dilly]

You could try a loose ring bridoon? the join at least between bit and ring won't be as big then. Or Fylde Saddlery will very probably have a tiny bit, but I'll warn you, if he offers to make you one, well it cost me £30 more than quoted for my bit and nothing was said until the invoice came.

[Snowyboy]

Daffy - didn't think about Fylde - I have to order some bits off him anyway (our new but secondhand showing saddle is Fylde) so I could check him out - thanks for that suggestion!



just had a look and he does a small ring snaffle in stainless steel for under £15 - that may end up on the birthday list - thanks for that!

[horse__obsessed]

id put the noseband down and the bit looks a little low

also a raised noseband might look better? just an idea

they both look lovely though :D

[Glider]

I didn't have his ears shaved out as he's on 24 hour turnout and we don't do this seriously so I will move down the line quite happily for him still having ear hair :o


Mine live out 24/7 in the summer too, so I just trim straight down the ear, so you take off the excess that sticks out of the side/front of the ears, but leave the majority of the protective fur :)