Do horses still "work" in G.B.?

[Martagon]

My daughter just received a lovely book for her birthday; it's an encyclopaedia of horses around the world -- published in Britain. (Sadly it does not include our Canadien Horse or Newfoundland Ponies) The entry for Shire horses includes the fact that they are still used for short haul trips from a brewery, i.e. any trip under 5 miles. Says it's cheaper than using a truck (guess that would be lorry) for such a short distance. While it sounds so charming, is that just romanticizing something that used to exist, but no longer? Or is it done for the tourists? Or does it really happen. My heart would like to think that it does, but ...... we hardly even have trains any more, let alone horses. The truck is ubiquitous. I think you Brits still rely on trains, do you still use horses. The only people here who really use horses to work the land are the Mennonites. It's something to drive by, I think they use mostly shires, probably some Belgians, for work, and then a lighter horse for the buggy.

[Lucy J]

the brewers do still use shire's I believe, personally I have never seen any in the city, but i do know they are still used. you generally see them more parading at race courses and shows though.

clydesdales are still used in forrestry work and shires and other heavies still plough sometimes, but to be honest it is not a common site, although it does still happen!

[Mehitabel]

some of the big brewery chains keep up horses, and i know harrods has a carriage that is allegedly used for deliveries, but i haven't seen it out on the streets of london! they do show them, in some shows there are classes for trade turnouts for draught horses. i wouldn't be enormously surprised if they are used in more rural areas.

[anuvb]

I've quite often seen smaller ponies used in Towns and cities pulling carts for "Rag 'n' Bone" men and horses are still used as a means of transport in Dublin, Ireland (though the welfare of some of the ponies has been called into question over the years - I don't know enough to comment). If you go to many more industrial areas of the towns and cities (and probably the areas with higher unemployment) you will quite often see cobs and ponies tethered on common ground to be used for pulling small traps and carts, mainly for work purposes.

Ponies were also used as pit ponies up until very recently. Shires and Clysdales are definitely coming back into fashion in some farming areas as they switch from mass produced farming to more traditional organic farming, though they are predominantly seen at open air museums and at country shows. Heavy horses are also used within the army as part of their ceremonial duties. However, in some rural areas the only really sensible way to get around is on horseback and I know that certainly in Cornwall and Wales a lot of Farmers still move around their land using horses, just because it is too hilly to do otherwise.

[Wally]

A few breweries do still use horses to do deliveries. These breweries also have big show drays and would you beleive it are (or used to be) actually paid by the big shows to enter for the heavy horse classes . It caused a bit of trouble as the road coach teams were not paid and had to pay to enter, they considered themselves as just as much a crowd puller......then the huge argument started that if the decision was made to pay the road coaches to turn up, then ALL driving turnouts should get paid. Oh the joy of politics!:D

But in answer some folk do still use them.

[artemis]

There is a farm in Northumberland that is entiely run with heavy horses. There was a TV series and a book about them. A series of models was also made by "Border Fine Arts".

Some of the local breweries used to have horse drawn carts, but I havent seen them recently.

[Lgd]

Until the Vaux brewery in Sunderland closed a couple of years ago they were still using horses for the city centre deliveries. They had Percherons and Gelderlanders. When the brewery closed the Percherons went to another brewery, one of the Gelderlanders was retired and the others are now working at Beamish Open Air museum.

[chev]

There is an area in the town where I live called the Dingle, a kind of woody bit with a river and trails and so on, covers a few acres, where the local council has been carrying out maintenance work. They've been clearing deadwood and felling sick trees. The place is environmentally sensitive - it leads to Cefni reservoir which is home to a lot of birds and wildfowl etc - so machinery is not easy to use there (plus there's parts you couldn't reach by machine).

So, all the clearing has been done by a local Shire with chains. He's trailered there each day, harnessed up, and spends all day in the woods dragging the dead stuff out. There was a piece in the local paper - I'll see if I can look it out for you.

They also use Suffolks in and around Snowdonia for the same job. These are all genuine working horses, so yes, we still use them!

[Hetfinch]

Whilst I was at the Royal Show this year, I met up with the team of Suffolks from a prison actually based in Suffolk. The horses are used in traditional farming methods there, I believe. I'll try and find a link that tells you more about them.

What I didn't realise is Suffolk Punch horses are on the 'critical' list of the Rare Breeds Survival Trust breeds listing. So I promptly rushed off and joined the Rare Breeds Survival Trust! In the RBST magazine this quarter there is an article about the first artificial insemination from one of the Suffolks at the prison.

Am I just dim, or did other people realise there was such a problem with Suffolks? I truly was shocked. Two other horses on the critical list are the Cleveland Bay, although a University (Leicester I think?) has begun a breeding programme; and the Eriskay pony.

On the 'Endangered' list are the Fell pony and the Exmoor pony, whilst Dales, Darmoors and Highlands are on the vulnerable list.


It's very disturbing news, isn't it?

Oh, back onto the 'working horses' theme - Adnams Brewery in Southwold, Suffolk still uses its horses within the town. But I don't think there is widespread use of horses anymore.

Heather:)

[Gracie]

Thats very interesting! I don't think any of the horses here are actually used for work! Sometimes for shows etc. Or big events!
But I guess some do sleigh rides and wagon rides, but thats only at farms, or sometimes in the city too to make money! Wow thats fairly interesting!

[Hetfinch]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/05/0522_suffolkpunch.html

[vclay]

Horses are used here for farmwork on some of the real hilly farms,also there is one pair of Clydesdales that takes a cart around the city for tourists, and horses have been used for search and rescue in the wilderness, but I think these were local riders helping out, not specially trained.
I think all the riding school ponies and horses work extra hard for their living too! In Melbourne there are a few horsedriven carriages which give you a tour of the inner city; and of course Police horses....Vera

[FRED]

The Bass Brewery museum in Burton Upon Trent Staffs was famous for their Shires, they used to go from Burton to Lichfield,but im 99% sure they don't any more.
At the county shows you will seee plenty of Shire and Clydesdales and if your lucky some Sufollk Punch. At the Royal you can see just about every breed of heavy horse and more.Sadly the heavy horse are met with indifference amongst some of the 'Horsey set' :(
There are working farms in the UK that use heavy horse for all types of work,you can go to most plough matches and see horse working.
In the midlands there are still plenty of horse used for wedding and funerals, the carrige and horse are beautiful.
We still have trams in Wolverhapmton.

We dont have anything like Victoria Island or Stanley Park in Canada where there are more horse and carriage than taxi{all the horse there have those rubber shoes too}
The photo is of working horse in USA around the 1920s pulling combine harvester{from verey rare book of agricultural and construction machinery}The quality is poor but it just shows how far we have advanced.

[Martagon]

This really is an interesting response. I hadn't thought about the horses used in forestry - there are a very few used here in Canada. The Suffolk Punch is on our endangered breeds list as well; I know there is one farm in the area with them.
Heather, there is a group called 'Rare Breeds Canada' that you may want to do a google search for - it gives a list of the breeds considered rare here.
The heavy horse breeds (here, Belgians, Clydes mostly) are being bred with a lighter horse for jumping purposes. Unfortunately, they are also breeding out the Canadien horse to other bloodlines to get the strength and stamina of the Canadien into other lines, and to get more height into the Canadiens. :(

A Gelderlander is a breed I'm not familiar with - I'll have to go look it up in her book. Funny how some breeds were brought over, and others not.
But, as Gracie says, most heavy horses here do the "touristy" hay wagon/sleigh ride pull thing. (My hope is to train our Canandiens [that we don't yet have] to pull the harrows around their paddocks.)

[Hetfinch]

Thanks Martagon - I'll take a look. I've become fascinated by rare breeds recently.

Heather :)

[ggabby]

If you visit Blackpool,you will see lots of horses working ,these are 14.2to15.2 cobs, pulling carriges up and down the golden mile. For peaple living outside the U.K. Blackpool is a seaside town.

[Steve.R]

Until a couple of years ago Vaux brewery in Sunderland (NE England) had a beautiful pair of Gelderlander horses pulling a dray through the city centre as it was cheaper than a lorry - and better advertising!

Unfortunately the brewery closed its Sunderland branch but the horses and dray can now be seen in Beamish Open Air Museum pulling the dray down a 1913 street!

Up here we still have some rag and bone men with horses and a good number of gypsies with their coloured cobs.

Esther (borrowing Steve's username!):)

[Steve.R]

I've just realised I have exactly repeated a previous post.....ooops I obviously didn't read very carefully sorry Lgd

Esther

[packhorse11]

It seems by now that you will have realised that there are quite a few horses still working in UK.
Youngs Brewery in London uses dray horses to this day I think - these are maybe the ones you mention in this first post.

I also know someone who worked a couple of horses in the East Grinstead area of Sussex - contracting hauling logs and wood out of the woods for the local council. There is a working horse farm over in Kent somewhere which definitely works their horses.

I have often seen programmes on the TV about people using horses on farms etc.

It is becoming more and more common to use horses to haul timber in areas in need of conservation or special ecological interest etc - the trucks cause too much damage.

Seems a shame they are not used more if you ask me - less noise, less polution, less damage all round.

What does everyone else think?

[Laetitia]

There are quite a few breweries that use heavies for their deliveries around town.
I used to live in a town where the local brewery used horses, and the whip used to back his pair past my little house down this very, very narrow lane to the cellar entrance.It was the most incredible bit of driving I have ever seen.The precision ! with a flat bed heavily loaded with barrels, past the inevitable parked cars which made the lane JUST wide enough for him, and round a corner ! L

[chev]

I totally agree with packhorse11, it is a shame more horses aren't used where they can be. (Although I don't think a return to the days of hansome (sp?) cabs would be so good...)

Certainly round here they're again an accepted sight hauling logs. I think heavy horses are going through a kind of revival at the moment. A friend of ours breeds Shires - he has about 26 horses on his farm, some are pure-bred, others crossed with a TB stallion he has or a local graded coloured stallion. Interestingly he reckons the pure Shires are selling better than those he crossed out to bring on as hunters, jumpers etc (the TB stallion has BSJA winnings). A number of people who contact him about his horses ask if they work.

We also see several carriages round here that do weddings; more and more people seem to prefer arriving by horse and carriage than by car. All good if you ask me!

[Martagon]

Sorry I haven't posted lately, but I have been coming in for quick peeks. I am enjoying hearing of horses working for a living. I guess when I read books and see pictures of horses hauling kegs, I think that it's all a pose. Nice to hear that it's real. Thanks for stories, would love to hear more:)

[FRED]

I have found a couple of photos that belonged to my Grandfather who had working horse at his farm near Walsall up until 1950.
My mother drove the milk float with her horse whose's name was Kit, the family still do the same milk round..but with electric power milk float!
I have spent some time making this one better quality, horse levelling roads.
I have an interesting one of horse doing forestry work,but it will take a while to improve the quality, fingers crossed.
By the way what is the correct name for those shoes the carriage horse wear in Victoria Island Canada.

[vclay]

Just having another look at this fascinating topic; Martagon what is the Newfoundland Pony? I have heard of the Canadien horse, and was wondering if the pony is a type or a breed. Vera

[Martagon]

Hi vclay: I'm not enough of a taxonomist to know what you mean by type or breed. Ah, the Canadien (horse) and the Newfoundland (pony) are separate breeds, but there is one farm locally that is cross-breeding them.
Historically, the Newfoundland is a cross between Exmoor, Dartmoor, Welsh, Connemara, New Forest and Galloway ponies. (Admission here, I'm checking the official web-site.) <http://www.gov.nf.ca/agric/her&rab/lsv011.htm > is where I got the information. They are still considered endangered here, a bit more tenuous than the Canadien.
My daughter rides a Newfoundland at our stables, and she just LOVES him. He has a pony attitude, but his ride is closer to that of a horse. His canter is smoother and longer stride than a pony, and he probably stands about 13 hh. His neck, along with the legs, is incredibly thick, likely years of breeding to be a work pony. There is also a welsh pony at the stable, and he looks absolutely puny beside the Newfoundland.

BTW, Morgans are just Canadiens with an American accent. .;) Check out a picture of the two sometime. The morgan has a slightly more slender build, but the basic building block is Canadien. Quebec (Canada) and Vermont (home of the Morgan, I think) are across the border from each other.

Fred, Thank you for posting that picture. I wish I had a scanner, my Mom has a picture of the horses pulling the hay wagon while my dad lforks the hay on. Probably from the early 40's.

[james]

I think the main users of working horses are the police and army. The Metropolitan and City of London police still use them routinely for patrols, policing large crowds and riot control.

The Royal Military Police has a mounted section which they use to patrol the large open training areas around Aldershot. I read somewhere that pack horses were used for peacekeeping in the Balkans due to the rugged terrain, though I have not seen this confirmed.

[FRED]

Martagon, my cousin has amazing computer that can enhance old photos,we have some real nice photos of the family farming with horse:)
Anyway, I like this photo, its from around 1860s in USA.
Clearly the horse are keeping a watchfull eye on the camera man,
just remember that the camera would have been on a tripod. The photograper and most of the camera would have been covered over with a black cape..its a good job the horses didn't spook!
My aunt {who is 90 and amazing character}says the two most sensible horse were always put at the front, I can't help but wonder how control was kept of so many horse.:)

[FRED]

One more:) again from 1860s of a family farming in USA.

James, the Staffordshire Police mounted unit was dissbanded, they cost one million a year..but made a profit,some things just don't make sense ,although I did hear that in some mounted units the officers bought £1000 boots! perhaps this didn't help the cause if true. Staffs now hire's in Manchester's mounted unit.
By the way,we are just down the road from you, look out for those big red Manitou machines in Uttoxeter:) thats us.

[mikka]

Fred, that last photo is great. Reminds me of the Grapes of Wrath.

[Disty]

Hi

The Whitbread Hop Farm (part of the Whitbread group) in Kent has a whole stable full of greys, which they use for demos now, as the streets have become too busy for them to go out. It's a brilliant place to visit and i would reccommend it to ANYONE!!
I will ask my other half *** the name of the brewery (Sp) which still uses horses and post it later!!

[Laetitia]

Wonderful photos Fred of a bygone era. I saw a recent photo of about 60 horses put too, in a mag, with as many grooms. Your photo does'nt seem to have so many grooms. Don't think that in those days they thought about the need for grooms to be on hand to sort out any problems so didn't have that many of either. Nowadays are we very cautious ? L

[Martagon]

Gee, but I'm really enjoying this thread. Thanks, Fred, for the pictures, and to everyone else who is contributing.

[FRED]

The Grapes of Wrath, wasn't it Henry Fonda who stared in the exellent film, a true classic:)
I will get some more photos done, but probably next week due to im sooo busy.

When I 1st saw the photos many years ago, I was in awe and thought that indeed mankind owes horse a debt, where would we all be now.

My guess is that most working horse were very well cared for in those times and no doubt enjoyed being together in their work as a team, with their owners. I have read that working horse would work up to four hours and then horse were changed.
My personal thoughts on over grooming etc, well it seems nowdays we have many psycho analitic owner and rider of horse, I find them confusing.
:)

[Disty]

Hi
Sorry no answer about the brewery yet, but!!!

Our local council use two shires around the town with a horse drawn vehicle and even cut the grass with them in the summer!!
Their names are Bracken and Bramble!! It's a lovely sight in the modern day.

[FRED]

OK, one more photo.This one is of Kit who worked on families farm.
{Farm is now one massive housing estate:o }
I have some more but its just seems impossible to edit them to better quality.
Kit who's main job was to deliver milk around Cheslyn Hay:)